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Willie Frazer has died

SharpshooterTom

Victims campaigner Willie Frazer has died. He was 58.

He was the founder of Families Acting for Innocent Relatives (Fair), a group set up in 1998 to support victims of republican violence.

Mr Frazer stood down from the group in 2012 after its funding was frozen.

His father Bertie, a part-time member of the Ulster Defence Regiment, was killed in an IRA gun attack in 1975. He was one of several family members murdered by republicans.

Mr Frazer was also involved in the flag protests at Belfast City Hall after the council decided only to fly the union flag on designated days in 2012.

He faced several allegations of misspending cash given to his victims group with funding being withdrawn more than once. He dismissed the claims as political.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-48705602

Couldn't stand the guys politics and thought he often poisened the debate the NI, founding extremist groups like the protestant coalition, but he was a victim of the troubles and clearly his views were affected by his father's murder and I don't wish his family any ill will. RIP.

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Mad_maxx

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

I didn’t know much about him but reading his comments on the GAa and Ireland etc he seems to be a moderate version of Ruth Dudley Edwards or Eoghan Harris.

Surprised the independent didn’t give him a gig.

Frazier may have been an unpleasant fellow but let's not be cruel by lumping him in with Ruth dudley Edwards and eoghan Harris

janfebmar

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Frazier may have been an unpleasant fellow but let's not be cruel by lumping him in with Ruth dudley Edwards and eoghan Harris

He played GAA for a year in his youth, or so it is said, before his Dad and 5 other close relatives were murdered by Republicans.

FTA69

janfebmar wrote: »

He played has for a year in his youth, or so it is said, before his Dad and 5 other close relatives were murdered by Republicans.

Yawn. Repeating yourself now and not engaging with any points made.

Childish and banal nonsense. Transparent.

janfebmar

Deleted User wrote: »

Leaving aside Willie's association with those gentle souls in the Glennane Gang, can we ...

There is no proof he had association with Glennane gang, is there?

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

He played has for a year in his youth, or so it is said, before his Dad and 5 other close relatives were murdered by Republicans.

J I think this is the one thread where you might be able to make some decent, relevant points. The thing is you've shot yourself in the foot here. You've spent so many other threads trying to insult Ireland and all things Irish as you see them by bringing IRA, Nazis, eamon De Valera, economy, IMF and everything else that it's really really difficult to take you seriously. You alternate between saying you're a unionist voter to not unionist, you support UVF and bloody Sunday to condemning them and on one thread you even said that pilots throw turds onto Ireland when they fly over. You've brought these opinions in every type of thread ranging from housing to flower arranging. You should have saved your A game for this thread dude and maybe then you would have been taken seriously.

Gimme A Pound

Yamanoto wrote: »

If you're hearing what Loyalists are saying on their various grubby fora about the deaths of some fairly obscure Republican individuals, then you're fetishising the bile. If you're sharing it among friends, then you're fetishising the bile. Excoriating them for doing it, but seeking it out all the same & delighting at just how base the other crowd show themselves up to be.

Why don't you say that about any criticism of anything so? Why just this? It really looks like you're attempting to shut down criticism of loyalist rhetoric specifically. I don't seek the stuff out or share it - what are you on about? And my criticism of loyalist bigotry is hardly just to do with what they say about the deaths of republican figureheads. Holycross - better just "ignore" that...

I am not a republican - I'm just an Irish person who will obviously be critical of a group of people that views me as the enemy for no reason and advocates the killing of other Irish people. This would be a rational view to most, but not to many in Ireland, who think only a radical could hold that view, and that we should ignore it but endlessly criticise the other crowd.

As for your perception that Loyalists aren't subject to the same levels of examination or criticism down South, once again, they weren't purporting to commit acts of violence in our name - THAT's why the spotlight shines brighter on Republican terrorism.

Wha? You already said that and I acknowledged it with "Yeah that I get, but it still doesn't explain the below: (quote from Mad_maxx) Equal criticism surely makes more sense. Loyalists didn't claim to be acting in our name but they do consider us the enemy and they were just killing and mistreating our fellow fenians..."

The contortions people twist themselves into to downplay loyalist extremism...

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I for one enjoyed his comments and I am sad to hear of his demise

Sure thing dude.

Fionn1952

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Why don't you say that about any criticism of anything so? Why just this? It really looks like you're attempting to shut down criticism of loyalist rhetoric specifically. I don't seek the stuff out or share it - what are you on about? And my criticism of loyalist bigotry is hardly just to do with what they say about the deaths of republican figureheads. Holycross - better just "ignore" that...

I am not a republican - I'm just an Irish person who will obviously be critical of a group of people that views me as the enemy for no reason and advocates the killing of other Irish people. This would be a rational view to most, but not to many in Ireland, who think only a radical could hold that view, and that we should ignore it but endlessly criticise the other crowd.

Wha? You already said that and I acknowledged it with "Yeah that I get, but it still doesn't explain the below: (quote from Mad_maxx) Equal criticism surely makes more sense. Loyalists didn't claim to be acting in our name but they do consider us the enemy and they were just killing and mistreating our fellow fenians..."

The contortions people twist themselves into to downplay loyalist extremism...

Sure thing dude.

In fairness, whether you choose to distance yourself from it, or don't identify with it, I don't. I am very much a Republican.....I still dont think a thread on the death of any person is the place to have this sort of thing out.

Phileas Frog

NIMAN wrote: »

One loon less.

Wonder what he died of? He was only 58.

A Friday

Gimme A Pound

steddyeddy wrote: »

You've spent some many other threads trying to insult Ireland and all things Irish as you see them by bringing IRA, Nazis, eamon De Valera, economy, IMF and everything else that it's really really difficult to take you seriously. You alternate between saying you're a unionist voter to not unionist, you support UVF and bloody Sunday to condemning them and on one thread you even said that pilots throw turds onto Ireland when they fly over.

God how disgusting.

steddyeddy

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

God how disgusting.

I'm not god I'm afraid.

Gimme A Pound

Fionn1952 wrote: »

In fairness, whether you choose to distance yourself from it, or don't identify with it, I don't. I am very much a Republican.....I still dont think a thread on the death of any person is the place to have this sort of thing out.

People always discuss a well known person when they've just died. It's in poor taste to jeer at their death but not to say negative things about them. What's also in poor taste is using it as a platform to wind people up like Janfebmar (grotesquely bigoted) is doing.

Fionn1952

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

People always discuss a well known person when they've just died. It's in poor taste to jeer at their death but not to say negative things about them. What's also in poor taste is trying to wind people up like Janfebmar is doing.

I'd agree on the latter point too, but as my aul man used to say, 'you lie down with dogs, you get fleas'.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

J I think this is the one thread where you might be able to make some decent, relevant points. The thing is you've shot yourself in the foot here. You've spent so many other threads trying to insult Ireland and all things Irish as you see them by bringing IRA, Nazis, eamon De Valera, economy, IMF and everything else that it's really really difficult to take you seriously. You alternate between saying you're a unionist voter to not unionist, you support UVF and bloody Sunday to condemning them and on one thread you even said that pilots throw turds onto Ireland when they fly over. You've brought these opinions in every type of thread ranging from housing to flower arranging. You should have saved your A game for this thread dude and maybe then you would have been taken seriously.

Rubbish and lies, but what else eould I expect from you. I never voted unionist in my life, I never supported the uvf or any other paramilitaries etc. I always condemned the paramilitaries on both sides.
To be taken seriously, republicans need to stop condoning the IRA. You should also stick to the facts about dead people. People are innocent until proven guilty. The is no proof Frazer was in the Glennane gang or anything like it.

Shelob1

A true son of Ulster and will be sadly missed from all his friends. True and loyal right to the very end. Will be attending his funeral. Rest easy William.

[Deleted User]

steddyeddy wrote: »

J I think this is the one thread where you might be able to make some decent, relevant points. The thing is you've shot yourself in the foot here. You've spent so many other threads trying to insult Ireland and all things Irish as you see them by bringing IRA, Nazis, eamon De Valera, economy, IMF and everything else that it's really really difficult to take you seriously. You alternate between saying you're a unionist voter to not unionist, you support UVF and bloody Sunday to condemning them and on one thread you even said that pilots throw turds onto Ireland when they fly over. You've brought these opinions in every type of thread ranging from housing to flower arranging. You should have saved your A game for this thread dude and maybe then you would have been taken seriously.

Did they? Did they really? That's so many new kinds of special.

steddyeddy

Shelob1 wrote: »

A true son of Ulster and will be sadly missed from all his friends. True and loyal right to the very end. Will be attending his funeral. Rest easy William.

Me too. Want to share a ride?

Gimme A Pound

Deleted User wrote: »

Did they? Did they really? That's so many new kinds of special.

On the thread about Americans, a couple of geniuses complaining about bigotry towards Americans (and I agree very much with them) are fine with anti Irish sh1t. Self loathing is very prevalent in this country though.

_blaaz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did they? Did they really? That's so many new kinds of special.

I googled this myth (as everyone keeps saying it) and added boards tag and found this

Different name posted though!!

Larbre34

There are a few ways to engage in politics and campaigning. Some are smart and play the very long game, make what at the beginning seem like extreme or outlandish ideas completely normal and accepted. Thats a rare skill, to slowly heat the water under the frog, and it takes a couple of generations to bed in.

On the other hand, you have clowns. Clowns like we see in the World around us today who do their cause no favours with their extremism and failure to bring others along in the long term because it generates backlash, friction, polarisation and a difficult and temporary tenure for their idealogy.

Fraser was such a clown. As mentioned earlier, the diametric opposite to a David Ervine, or a Martin McGuinness. He could have tried to be a Thatcher or Reagan but he chose to be Johnson or Trump. From that point of view, long term peace, mutual respect and equality in Ireland will be helped by his departure. There are a few more on both sides that could follow him frankly. The pragmatic unionist / loyalist now is the one who looks ahead to plan for how their community shall live exactly as they do now, with their British identities and traditions and a regional governance but in a United Ireland.

Fraser wasnt any of that and so despite the personal bereavement for his family at such a young age, to society he was no loss.

[Deleted User]

_blaaz wrote: »

I googled this myth and added boards tag and found this

Different name posted though!!

Oh. My. God. That's extraordinary, or what we used to describe in less sophisticated times as 'so fúcking retarded'.

steddyeddy

I have yet to offer my condolences to his family and friends but I'll do so now. I don't agree with his politics but I think he was another victim of the troubles. He was undoubtedly linked to the paramilitary groups on one side of the conflict so I don't think he's a campaigner for the victims at all. He was definitely pushing one side of the conflict and supported violence to do that. In his defence he did seem completely unhinged and I imagine that the loss of his family would have been central to that. Finally I'll say I wouldn't wish cancer on anyone. Hopefully he's at peace now.

Junkyard Tom

Larbre34 wrote: »

The pragmatic unionist / loyalist now is the one who looks ahead to plan for how their community shall live exactly as they do now, with their British identities and traditions and a regional governance but in a United Ireland.

Who are these pragmatic unionists? Both the DUP/UUP are implacably opposed to a Irish Language Act as well as other rights-based issues.

If anything Unionism is regressing as it has difficulty dealing with the fact that they're no longer in charge, have lost their majority, and are increasingly uncomfortable with nationalist parity being achieved.

steddyeddy

I think this could be a good thread where people set aside their differences to offer condolences or have an honest reflection about the life of Frazer but it's already been ruined, and not by republicans.

No the people that really ruin it are the people who start new accounts to pretend to be from the unionist community. Do you really think you're honouring unionism and the whole ideology behind it by using the ideology to start a fake account designed to annoy posters on an Irish website? Is that what unionism is? Is that how much Willie Frazer meant to the community? He meant so much that no real unionist posters can offer their view? Just a serial rereg and someone who starts an account so he can pretend to be at their funeral? Is there any real unionists here or is that what unionism is now?

OldMrBrennan83

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think this could be a good thread where people set aside their differences to offer condolences or have an honest reflection about the life of Frazer but it's already been ruined, and not by republicans.

No the people that really ruin it are the people who start new accounts to pretend to be from the unionist community. Do you really think you're honouring unionism and the whole ideology behind it by using the ideology to start a fake account designed to annoy posters on an Irish website? Is that what unionism is? Is that how much Willie Frazer meant to the community? He meant so much that no real unionist posters can offer their view? Just a serial rereg and someone who starts an account so he can pretend to be at their funeral? Is there any real unionists here or is that what unionism is now?

Why would someone automatically have to offer condolences? The man was utter scum.

the dark phantom

_blaaz

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Why would someone automatically have to offer condolences? The man was utter scum.

Its abput having touch of class....bitterness only destroys happiness of person who is bitter (you give condolences to his family)

You can either turn out like.frazer bitter or move on to a new future and let the bitterness die out(one of best ira chiefs of staff was buried this week and man got respect he was due off of unionism without anyone screaming scum at him and his family,be a grown up ffs)

steddyeddy

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Why would someone automatically have to offer condolences? The man was utter scum.

I agree but I think it's important to be the bigger man. Unionism was defined as not giving an inch. That's why it's loosing ground. It's not a sustainable position and won't win the hearts and minds of the other side.

OldMrBrennan83

steddyeddy wrote: »

I agree but I think it's important to be the bigger man. Unionism was defined as not giving an inch. That's why it's loosing ground. It's not a sustainable position and won't win the hearts and minds of the other side.

If you're looking someone to give you a nice pat on the back then maybe it is.

Gimme A Pound

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Why would someone automatically have to offer condolences?.

Depends on where it's coming from. Yeah a number of people here are just being contrarian and attention seeking but Eddy is being genuine, just thinking from another perspective - William Frazer as a person with a family who'll miss him. That doesn't downplay what he was like as a public figure.

Feisar

Look the man had a tough time of it. He’s dead now and that’s that.

NI will only heal not only when his likes (from both sides) have passed on but also the memories of them have faded.