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Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

JCX BXC

The seat map for the B767-200 being leased by EI next year are available on the Aer Lingus website, the seating is 2,3,2 in economy (As was suspected) and 2,2,2 in business

There are 189 economy seats and 12 Business seats making a total of the reported 201 seats.

Anyone know whether the B767 will be repainted, partially or entirely, in the EI colours for the 6 months that its leased for?

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1123heavy

kevinandrew wrote: »

Average load factors have remained steady or even increased slightly during the past five years of growth across the Atlantic so any witnessed low loads obviously aren’t a regular enough occurrence to impact the overall numbers.

The A333 is also cheaper to operate these days, I think it even has a cost advantage over the A332 on similar route profiles and loads. Also with the A333 now able to reach the west coast in its HGW variant the need for the A332 is diminishing at Aer Lingus and indeed other airlines as we’ve seen with the order book.

Aircraft choice has always been a matter of interest to me. I have noticed the AF A332s do not go to the USA, it's entirely the boeings or the A380 (they used to have 340s do USA but they're being phased out overall). Demand aside even before the A380 air france didn't send the A332. It's mostly favoured for mid range African routes. I wonder if it's because the 777 gives better costs for similar loads to the US?

Shamrockj

1123heavy wrote: »

Aircraft choice has always been a matter of interest to me. I have noticed the AF A332s do not go to the USA, it's entirely the boeings or the A380 (they used to have 340s do USA but they're being phased out overall). Demand aside even before the A380 air france didn't send the A332. It's mostly favoured for mid range African routes. I wonder if it's because the 777 gives better costs for similar loads to the US?

Mostly true but I have seen their A332 in Houston, Chicago and Seattle before

alancostello

1123heavy wrote: »

Aircraft choice has always been a matter of interest to me. I have noticed the AF A332s do not go to the USA, it's entirely the boeings or the A380 (they used to have 340s do USA but they're being phased out overall). Demand aside even before the A380 air france didn't send the A332. It's mostly favoured for mid range African routes. I wonder if it's because the 777 gives better costs for similar loads to the US?

They may have also made a business decision not to use those aircraft for those routes, they need to be registered with the FAA and/or certified for ETOPS, which they wouldn't need to be for the African routes.

IE 222

Do IE get a good return using A330s on the sun routes. With the extra frames coming could we see another 1 or 2 of these coming on. Surely parking these up for a number of hours in Dublin is going to become more and more difficult.

Is there much capacity left on the A321 routes to the likes of Rome, Naples, Canary's (probably too far). Could some schedules be altered to see a "spare" A330 overnight in Dublin but service a sun route such as Split, Dubrovnick, Burgas or upgrade a later Malaga, Faro run to A330.

alancostello

IE 222 wrote: »

Do IE get a good return using A330s on the sun routes. With the extra frames coming could we see another 1 or 2 of these coming on. Surely parking these up for a number of hours in Dublin is going to become more and more difficult.

Is there much capacity left on the A321 routes to the likes of Rome, Naples, Canary's (probably too far). Could some schedules be altered to see a "spare" A330 overnight in Dublin but service a sun route such as Split, Dubrovnick, Burgas or upgrade a later Malaga, Faro run to A330.

Typically the A330s are flying anything from 14-22 hours in a given day, the rest of the time on the ground at DUB is mostly for maintenance and checks, occasionally getting taken out of service for a few days for heavier checks or an unexpected major maintenance event.

There isn't much slack in the A330 fleet otherwise particularly during the summer (which is why for the last two years we've seen regular cancellations, hire-ins, etc), so additional daytime rotations are unlikely, even with another two frames (though I could be proved wrong). The A321LR can fit Euro rotations in because they're only doing shorter East Coast/Midwest routes and don't have to cycle through longer trips to the Floridas or the West Coast.

With an even larger fleet now and only set to grow they really do need a spare, I would assume there'll be some capacity set aside between the A321LRs and the new A330s, at least there should be if they're wise.

California Dreamer

alancostello wrote: »

With an even larger fleet now and only set to grow they really do need a spare,

That said, there is a case to hold on to -LAX for said spare flights.

HTCOne

1123heavy wrote: »

Aircraft choice has always been a matter of interest to me. I have noticed the AF A332s do not go to the USA, it's entirely the boeings or the A380 (they used to have 340s do USA but they're being phased out overall). Demand aside even before the A380 air france didn't send the A332. It's mostly favoured for mid range African routes. I wonder if it's because the 777 gives better costs for similar loads to the US?

Today there's A332s operating AFR136 LFPG-KORD & AFR338 LFPG-KSEA. They are often on the AFR022/023 for JFK too.

JeffKenna

What happened to the Aer Lingus flights from Cork to Munich? Really disappointed to see they seem to be gone.

Locker10a

JeffKenna wrote: »

What happened to the Aer Lingus flights from Cork to Munich? Really disappointed to see they seem to be gone.

Isn’t it winter season only ?

john boye

Shamrockj wrote: »

Mostly true but I have seen their A332 in Houston, Chicago and Seattle before

AF447 was an A332 as I recall it.

Diego Tristan

Locker10a wrote: »

Isn’t it winter season only ?

1 flight a week every Saturday, and only from 21/12/2019 to 21/3/2020.

Summer schedule dropped in 2018 according to this..

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Aer-Lingus-to-drop-Cork-to-Munich-flight-7782683f-0510-4a64-8d48-a37323468d07-ds

Tenger

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes Aer Lingus has previously said publicly their intention was to faze out the -200 for the -300 for the extra capacity.

I hadn’t realized this was their plan. Makes sense to try to operate a single A330neo variant, especially with the A321LR imminent.

goingnowhere

To be fair -200 and -300 are the same, same crew needed, same training, same parts.

The real saving is flexibility only a single type with only 2 seat layouts (crew rest vs no crew rest) vs the current -200 where there are no two the same greatly simplifies planning and avoids leaving people behind when the 'wrong' aircraft appears.

Chris_5339762

JeffKenna wrote: »

What happened to the Aer Lingus flights from Cork to Munich? Really disappointed to see they seem to be gone.

Its been bizarre for years this one has, seems to be winter only except for December, when we want to go out to the Christmas Markets and of course have to go via Dublin.

It would be nice if Swiss went year round from Cork to Zurich because that would probably open a December connecting flight through Zurich.

liiga

I like to see aerlingus new livery on a330neo

Anyone know delivery date for a321lr

Tenger

liiga wrote: »

I like to see aerlingus new livery on a330neo

Anyone know delivery date for a321lr

DUB-BDL is using the A321LR from August 2nd. So I would guess 2-3 days before that.

ohigg84

California Dreamer wrote: »

That said, there is a case to hold on to -LAX for said spare flights.

I really hope that when LAX is retired, she is put into a museum.
She has done worthy service for EI for over 2 decades, and is still a great aircraft!

LAX has been a fantastic asset to the EI fleet over the years!

ohigg84

Perhaps it is cost efficient for EI to operate A333s (242t version) on the West coast routes, but when the peak season ends, isn't it more effective to utilise a smaller aircraft ?(A332).

Surely it is practical for EI to utilise an A332/A333 fleet.

If LEVEL is going to get MAX8/MAX 10s, it's other long haul fleet of A332's (mostly new build) could be replaced by 787s, and these new A332s could go to EI, and EI could use the A332s to operate other potential West coast flights to San Jose, San Diego, or increase frequencies on the SFO and LAX routes to twice daily.

Just a speculation anyway

NH2013

ohigg84 wrote: »

Perhaps it is cost efficient for EI to operate A333s (242t version) on the West coast routes, but when the peak season ends, isn't it more effective to utilise a smaller aircraft ?(A332).

Surely it is practical for EI to utilise an A332/A333 fleet.

If LEVEL is going to get MAX8/MAX 10s, it's other long haul fleet of A332's (mostly new build) could be replaced by 787s, and these new A332s could go to EI, and EI could use the A332s to operate other potential West coast flights to San Jose, San Diego, or increase frequencies on the SFO and LAX routes to twice daily.

Just a speculation anyway

A332 vs A333 burn almost the exact same fuel, within 1%, require the exact same crew and have the exact same landing and airways fees as their MTOW is the same, it makes little sense anymore to operate A332s, certainly at the range Aer Lingus uses.

In the past the benefit of A332s over A333s was its range which was substantially longer, but that difference is now much reduced with the 242T A333 capable of flying any route on the Aer Lingus network comfortably, so you're effectively getting an extra 60 seats for no extra cost.

Its similar to the A319 and the A320, almost no difference in fuel burn but an extra 30 seats in that case.

California Dreamer

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-21/flying-to-the-rescue-iag-boss-proves-value-to-boeing-once-more

Interesting article re the Max and the WW relationship with Ray Connor and Boeing as a whole. I thought it would be a shot across the bow of Airbus but IAG could be serious about this letter or intent turning to an order.

1123heavy

California Dreamer wrote: »

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-21/flying-to-the-rescue-iag-boss-proves-value-to-boeing-once-more

Interesting article re the Max and the WW relationship with Ray Connor and Boeing as a whole. I thought it would be a shot across the bow of Airbus but IAG could be serious about this letter or intent turning to an order.

Airbus wouldn't even necessarily need to match the discount offered by boeing, IAG would save a fortune by sticking to airbus across its operations, so just something to make it cheaper to stick with airbus would be enough. Haven't IAG already been contacted by Airbus who plan to start negotiations with them?

goingnowhere

Willy is a hard core negotiator, he is a former union rep and 737 captain. He has a unique viewpoint as a CEO.

His Airbus vs 'little' Aer Lingus story is always a laugh to listen to.

But his tactic is sound, Airbus think they have BA/IE/IB locked down as short haul customers.

roundymac

kevinandrew wrote: »

Aer Lingus to operate the A321LR on SNN-JFK from 12 March 2020

Wonder if they'll squeeze in a LHR rotation here as well.

Depends on if they have a suitable slot spare at LHR.

alancostello

roundymac wrote: »

Depends on if they have a suitable slot spare at LHR.

In all existing cases they're being put on already operating routes, replacing the A320 that would otherwise operate.

JFK-SNN arrives 5:50am, BOS-SNN arrives 6:20am, first SNN-LHR is at 7:30, arrives back at 11:20, then SNN-BOS leave at noon, and JFK to SNN is at 12:45. Seems doable to fit one Euro rotation in? Especially as there will be two A321LRs on the ground. They might adjust the times a little if they do it though.

basill

It would substitute a 320 utilising existing slots.

kevinandrew

kevinandrew wrote: »

Aer Lingus to operate the A321LR on SNN-JFK from 12 March 2020

Wonder if they'll squeeze in a LHR rotation here as well.

Looks likes it's happening, from 29 March 2020 the early morning EI380/381 will be operated by the A321LR according to the booking engine.

JCX BXC

I wonder what the based A320 will do then?

Locker10a

JCX BXC wrote: »

I wonder what the based A320 will do then?

Hopefully a holiday flight in the summer anyway. In winter they could rotate routes to serve an early ski route certain mornings.
But it also begs the question, will EI re-open a pilot base in SNN? Now that all their flights from there can be crewed by a320series wouldn’t it be better to have a small, local base of pilots rather than the current set up of sending them to/from Dublin in executive cars, and overnighting then in local hotels.

LXFlyer

The second rotation of the SNN based A320 to Heathrow isn’t until 12:25 in summer & it was 12:55 last winter so with perhaps a little bit of rejigging, having a first rotation before 06:00 could open up the opportunity to fly to a continental destination like Faro or Malaga.

That in turn could release the Cork based A320 that does the Shannon sun flights (in a W pattern) to operate to another destination.

duskyjoe

ohigg84 wrote: »

I really hope that when LAX is retired, she is put into a museum.
She has done worthy service for EI for over 2 decades, and is still a great aircraft!

LAX has been a fantastic asset to the EI fleet over the years!

An incredible senior lady