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EU261 compensation discussion

finbarrk

I made a claim to them for compensation for a cancelled flight from Stansted to Shannon on 30 March. They say they don't have to pay it because the cancelation wasn't their fault as it was due to a fire at the Airport.
Anyone know if this is the case with these compensation claims?
They did refund the cost of the flight alright. But I had to spend a good bit on another flight the next day with Aer Lingus from Heathrow, as all Ryanair flights were full.

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billy few mates

Credit Checker Moose wrote: »

You can either give it to the ambulance chasers who will take a cut or go yourself to the small claims court.

You should probably also go to the Commission for Aviation Regulations (CAR), they're the enforcement body for consumer rights in these matters...
https://www.aviationreg.ie/Air_Passenger_Rights/Default.83.html

If you don't get anywhere with that you could always then go to the small claims court. As the poster above said, large organisations hate having to deal with the SCC because it usually costs them more to have to deal with the case than it would to pay out and if they don't show up in court you'll get judgment by default...

I currently have an outstanding EU261claim being handled by AirHelp (I know, I know they're going to take 25% commission before anyone chips in!).
I originally downloaded the claim form and filled it in myself (it's very simple), I then spent a bit of time Googling to find the address of the airline to send it, the more I Googled the more I read about this particular airline and their unwillingness to reply or deal with these cases etc, I just thought I don't really have time for this at the moment for numerous reasons so decided to outsource it.
On the day my flight was cancelled the airline were fobbing off passengers with long winded alternative routings, they didn't have any signs up about EU261 and weren't able to provide me with a copy (you can download it off the internet they told me!) until I pointed out to them the bit on their own website where they were required to display the information and provide me with a copy, which they then did.
I ended up with an eight hour delay when I pointed out an alternative routing that was closer to my original schedule with a direct flight, some of the others I spoke to on my flight got a twelve hour delay with two and three connections.

The AirHelp application took five minutes through the app, they've already been in touch with me with an update, I'll let you know how it goes...

paddy19

Credit Checker Moose wrote: »

You can either give it to the ambulance chasers who will take a cut or go yourself to the small claims court.

I found small claims court excellent. It's €25 and all online. The airlines don't like it because if they contest it, they would have to use a solicitor and you don't.

Make sure you get the exact company name and address right.

Credit Checker Moose

You can either give it to the ambulance chasers who will take a cut or go yourself to the small claims court.

FKYouPayMe

Was delayed coming home from Pisa to Dublin yesterday. In the airport were just told operational reasons, ended up being a near 6 hour delay before we took off. Had no contact from Ryanair in airport got a mail apologizing for delay and explaining rights hours after I got home.
Some of the cabin crew said they had been brought over from Manchester and had got the call 3 hours before our flight had even been due to depart (think the plane also had to be flown over)
Put in my claim yest and just got a reply saying delay was caused due to safety reasons in PISA and so I am not due compensation per EU 261
I’ve asked for proof that this was due to safety reasons as judging from previous posts on this issue their first play is always to try and fob you off
What’s next play here?

Harika

Adding my question here.
We booked a package holiday with a local travel agency to Mallorca. We arrived for the return flight at the airport, checked in and waited six hours until TUI told us that the plane needs more repair and we will be brought to a hotel and fly back Sunday morning. We were handed out leaflets with the EU regulations and returned Sunday morning, 24 hours delayed.
Are we entitled to cash compensation?
Whom would we contact first? The travel agency, TUI or the airline operator?

goingnowhere

Poster had a overnight flight and had confirmed reservation on the flight on Saturday and even a boarding card

Airline or ground agent did a bit of over booking to clear stranded passengers from Friday

Confirmed reservation => Denial of boarding => Full EC261 applies as both KLM and EI are EU airlines

JCX BXC

cython wrote: »

It sounds like the poster was never involved with the Friday flight though, rather they were supposed to fly on Sat AM all along, but they were bumped from the Saturday flight in favour of pax who were impacted by the Friday cancellation?

Ah okay, I'm not going to re-read the OP as it's far too hard on a Sunday evening, but I will say in that case yes, you should be entitled to compensation.

paddy19

Assuming this was an EU carrier and the reservation is on one ticket.
If you had a valid reservation and were available to board then this is a denial of boarding plain and simple.
The airline should have asked for volunteers per the regulation so they are not in a great position to argue.

In my view you are entitled to €600 based on the overall distance of the trip is greater than 3,500km and the delay was greater than 3 hours. The airline seems to be using the distance from Ams to Cork to calculate the compensation.

This is not correct based on the the regulation definition of final destination in Article 2. H "In the case of directly connecting flights, the destination of the last flight".

Let us know how you get on.

The applicable case which looks close to the posters is at:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:62011CJ0321&from=GA

cython

JCX BXC wrote: »

I'm getting very confused by what you're saying, however what I do know is that the Friday flight from Amsterdam to Cork was cancelled due to Storm Hannah, hence no compensation is owed.

It sounds like the poster was never involved with the Friday flight though, rather they were supposed to fly on Sat AM all along, but they were bumped from the Saturday flight in favour of pax who were impacted by the Friday cancellation?

Credit Checker Moose

But the person was not on that flight. Their flight was on Saturday which operated without them.

Their flight Saturday morning from AMS operated but they were bumped in favour of delayed pax from the night before.

JCX BXC

I'm getting very confused by what you're saying, however what I do know is that the Friday flight from Amsterdam to Cork was cancelled due to Storm Hannah, hence no compensation is owed.

Credit Checker Moose

If that is the case you are owed the full amount.

expatin africa

paddy19 wrote: »

It seems unlikely that the airline is offering €1,500 (€250 x 6) to passengers who are not entitled to it.

In my experience most airlines are reluctant to produce the loot even when you are definitely entitled to it.

Sorry but dont understand why we were not entitled to it. Had a ticket booked 3 months ago from lagos to cork through Amsterdam checked in fine Friday night and took the first flight fine, then Saturday morning in Amsterdam our flight to cork took off, but our seats were giving to the people who's flights were canceled on Friday night and they said we were on standby for flight we had our boarding pass for through klm in lagos

expatin africa

JCX BXC wrote: »

You shouldn't be getting €250, you're only entitled to Hotels, food, transport and communication, not compensation, as the Aer Lingus flight was cancelled due to weather conditions (Storm Hannah)

But my flight wasn't canceled my flight went ahead on the Saturday morning. They but some of the people from the cancled Friday night flight on it and put us on standby

paddy19

It seems unlikely that the airline is offering €1,500 (€250 x 6) to passengers who are not entitled to it.

In my experience most airlines are reluctant to produce the loot even when you are definitely entitled to it.

JCX BXC

You shouldn't be getting €250, you're only entitled to Hotels, food, transport and communication, not compensation, as the Aer Lingus flight was cancelled due to weather conditions (Storm Hannah)

expatin africa

Hi just wondering if anyone can help me this. Was travelling from Lego's nigeria to cork Ireland on the night of the 26/04/2019, boarded and took the flight to Amsterdam but when went to the gate in schipol for the Saturday morning flight to cork they said i was now on standby and would have to stay in Amsterdam and not get a flight till Sunday night,
There was a canceled flight to Cork Friday night and they put some of those passagers on our flight and we had to stay. This happened me and my wife and about 6 other people, we were all on klm transit flights with some from coming from austrailia
The flight was with klm with aer lingus doing the cork run.
We got a hotel. For free and they say we will get 250e.
Just wondering if thats all i am entitled to

paddy19

Feckin hell that is a long way from Pakistan!

Credit Checker Moose

The whole Pakistani airspace thingy is a red herring.

Lets look at the ideal route:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bkk-hel

The perfect route does not cross Pakistani airspace.

Here is the actual route the flight took on Apr 23.

They have been taking a more northerly route over Mongolia for the last week or so.

This is on Finnair, no one else.

paddy19

OK fair point.

Min Connection time at HEL seems to be 35 minutes so your ok there.

First question, was your flight from BKK to Hel with an EU airline?

The "Pakistan airspace closure" is going to make compensation very difficult.

geecee

paddy19 wrote: »

You need a minimum of a 3 hour delay for compensation.

But my overall delay was 16 hours due to the missed connection, both flights were on the same PNR

paddy19

"Subsequently we arrived into HEL 1 hour late and my connecting flight had already departed."

As you've probably guessed, this doesn't look like a runner under EU261.

You need a minimum of a 3 hour delay for compensation.

geecee

Hi All
I flew on finnair BKK-HEL-DUB on April 23rd

The BKK flight was late boarding and then the pilot said we were no. 30 in the take off queue as the airport was very busy. We took off 1 hour late and had to fly a slightly longer route due to Pakistan airspace closure. Subsequently we arrived into HEL 1 hour late and my connecting flight had already departed.

Finnair booked me on to the next available flight (next day) and put me up in a hotel for the night
In the end arrival home at 09.30 on 24/04 instead of 17.30 on 23/04
So overall delay was 16 hours

Any thoughts on whether this case would be EC 261 eligible?
Thanks In Advance!

L1011

Seriously - stop posting. That was a mod instruction

You do not qualify for 261 compensation and hence are entirely off topic.

Post again and you'll get carded

L1011

paddy19 wrote: »

"There's no history or case law as its clear cut."

You are clearly not a lawyer L1011!

The law is never clear until a court interprets the regulation.
When a case is heard then we know what the wording actually means.

The law is full of cases where legislators thought it was clear until the court
found otherwise.

Try find a lawyer to take a case based on there being absolutely no mention of what you want in the regulations.

Indeed, go find a lawyer. Stop posting here

This is not Legal Discussions and your posting is now wildly off topic.

Credit Checker Moose

You can be the first.

paddy19

"There's no history or case law as its clear cut."

You are clearly not a lawyer L1011!

The law is never clear until a court interprets the regulation.
When a case is heard then we know what the wording actually means.

The law is full of cases where legislators thought it was clear until the court
found otherwise.

L1011

Citizens Information is a simplified interpretation. The regulations, which you had made it clear you found in your first post, specify class only.

You are not entitled to compensation. There's no history or case law as its clear cut.

Ask for the seat reservation fee back.

paddy19

"Try search for EU regulation 261 of 2004."

Nobody likes a smart ass, AnRothar, and particularly an ill informed smart ass.

Eu261 Article 10

Upgrading and downgrading

2.If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3),reimburse

The Irish Citizen Information site refers to:
"Upgrading and downgrading seats"

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/air_travel/compensation_for_overbooked_and_delayed_flights.html

L1011 referred to a list. So I asked for a web reference?

Given that Etihad are charging €99 for a bulk head seat it is reasonable to question what "Class" means in the legal EU261 sense.

Is there any history or case law on this issue?

AnRothar

paddy19 wrote: »

"Because its not in the list of those that are."

What list?

Can you give us a web reference?

Try search for EU regulation 261 of 2004.

This Regulation establishes, under the conditions specified
herein, minimum rights for passengers when:
(a) they are denied boarding against their will;
(b) their flight is cancelled;
(c) their flight is delayed.

Anyone any experience with compensation for downgrade of seat

Your seat was changed.