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Changes in the GAA - super thread

rebel girl 15

The moderators and many other posters are getting tired with silly bickering breaking out on many threads and it taking those threads so far off topic.

So if you want to discuss county funding or how the GAA should change, moan about the fact that your county gets a hard time in the draw, that the GAA fixtures are clashing with any sporting event etc etc etc, it goes here. If is a moan or complaint, it goes here.

Anyone taking other threads off topic, or taking points of view from this into other threads and cross thread posting will be carded and/or banned. Anybody soapboxing in other threads will be banned and a limited amount allowed on here

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salmocab

threeball wrote: »

Any one who wouldn't at least concede that the per capita money available should be at least equally divided is a simpleton and has no interest in fairness. Those arguing that the current system of giving Dublin sometimes 20 times as much per capita is worse than that. Thats before you get into sponsorships, stadiums, home advantage and all the rest.

Dividing the money equally is about the worst way possible way to divide it, it takes the onus off the county boards to spend it wisely. The money needs to be targeted at specific uses and areas. I’d go as far as to say that anyone that thinks the money should just be split based on playing numbers is a simpleton.

threeball

salmocab wrote: »

Dividing the money equally is about the worst way possible way to divide it, it takes the onus off the county boards to spend it wisely. The money needs to be targeted at specific uses and areas. I’d go as far as to say that anyone that thinks the money should just be split based on playing numbers is a simpleton.

I said at least, not that it was the solution but certainly far better than the current one of give most of it to Dublin. That is certainly the worst way to divide it.

ToBeFrank123

salmocab wrote: »

Dividing the money equally is about the worst way possible way to divide it, it takes the onus off the county boards to spend it wisely. The money needs to be targeted at specific uses and areas. I’d go as far as to say that anyone that thinks the money should just be split based on playing numbers is a simpleton.

There you have the Dublin mindset in a nutshell. They know funds are a cornerstone of success and domination hence why they are completely opposed to any even distribution of them.

There are many well run county boards in Ireland, Donegal, Monaghan and numerous others. And yet even these counties receive a pittance in games development funds.

Even when counties are well run, Dubliners oppose giving funds to them. They are not interested nor ever will be in a relatively balanced playing field, and its this lack of interest and more so from their friends in the GAA which has brought the sport to its knees.

The GAA have ruined Leinster. They are now well on the way to ruining Sam Maguire. What next? Ladies football? Hurling?

salmocab

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There you have the Dublin mindset in a nutshell. They know funds are a cornerstone of success and domination hence why they are completely opposed to any even distribution of them.

There are many well run county boards in Ireland, Donegal, Monaghan and numerous others. And yet even these counties receive a pittance in games development funds.

Even when counties are well run, Dubliners oppose giving funds to them. They are not interested nor ever will be in a relatively balanced playing field, and its this lack of interest and more so from their friends in the GAA which has brought the sport to its knees.

The GAA have ruined Leinster. They are now well on the way to ruining Sam Maguire. What next? Ladies football? Hurling?

I am against even distribution of funds yes, as I said just cutting cheques is a bad way of funding anything. The rest you just decided what I meant to make your point.

RoyalCelt

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There are 50 better causes for investment than GDF in Dublin.
You'd swear participation was only an issue in Dublin.
What about
Kilkenny football
Antrim hurling
Down hurling
Offaly hurling
Cork football
Hurling in a number of counties such as Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone
Hurling in North Galway
Football in South Galway
Football in Tipperary, Limerick, Waterford, etc
And participation issues in every county.

All currently get crumbs while Dublin sucks up everything, the second most successful football county. Dublin received something like 25 times the GDF of Tyrone, their 2018 opponents, between 2007 and 2018.

At this stage its never been so obvious the GAA wear the Dublin jersey and in doing so have fatally undermined two of their marquee tournaments, the Leinster championship and Sam Maguire. I'd estimate they have about 3 years to resolve the mess by fairly distributing funding to the counties I mentioned above.

You cannot do anything without funding. Dublin and Dublin supporters know this better than everyone and its why they immediately shout down anyone who talks about it. Their greed is killing the sport.

I can see a situation in 20 years where Dublin dominate men's/ladies football as well as hurling and camogie at underage and senior.

Dublins population over the next 20 year's is set to grow at a faster rate then outside Dublin. It could get to a stage where the win 90% of AI honours across those 4 codes. I think it will reach a stage where a breakaway happens in the GAA and a new all Ireland will be formed without Dublin.

Wouldn't it be funny if they revived the railway Cup just for the laugh and invited Dublin too it. By this stage Dublin will probably be dominating all 4 codes at club level too. And their fans will still be telling us that money doesn't matter, the rest of you need to improve.

ToBeFrank123

salmocab wrote: »

I am against even distribution of funds yes, as I said just cutting cheques is a bad way of funding anything. The rest you just decided what I meant to make your point.

Unless of course you are from Dublin, where cutting checks is fine.

"Dublin is well run, everywhere else is a basketcase" is the Dublin mantra.

When of course we know that's bullsh*t. Many counties are as well run as Dublin but operating on a shoe string, while Dublin roll around in the dosh.

Its not an even playing field, lets not pretend it is.

Evenly distribute the funds and stop the blatent bias which the GAA have showed to Dublin. The longer it continues the less seriously people take Dublin's "achievements".

threeball

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There you have the Dublin mindset in a nutshell. They know funds are a cornerstone of success and domination hence why they are completely opposed to any even distribution of them.

There are many well run county boards in Ireland, Donegal, Monaghan and numerous others. And yet even these counties receive a pittance in games development funds.

Even when counties are well run, Dubliners oppose giving funds to them. They are not interested nor ever will be in a relatively balanced playing field, and its this lack of interest and more so from their friends in the GAA which has brought the sport to its knees.

The GAA have ruined Leinster. They are now well on the way to ruining Sam Maguire. What next? Ladies football? Hurling?

Exactly, they don't want to countenance a world where they have to compete on a level playing field. Like the americans, world champs in any sport that they throw enough money into yet even they see the futility of doing that with their indigenous sports and in fact do the exact opposite giving most of the advantages to the weakest team. The rest of us are too dumb to know how to spend the money wisely and couldn't be trusted to put a full time CEO in place. We'll make do with a volunteer who does 6hrs a week.

ToBeFrank123

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I can see a situation in 20 years where Dublin dominate men's/ladies football as well as hurling and camogie at underage and senior.

Dublins population over the next 20 year's is set to grow at a faster rate then outside Dublin. It could get to a stage where the win 90% of AI honours across those 4 codes. I think it will reach a stage where a breakaway happens in the GAA and a new all Ireland will be formed without Dublin.

Wouldn't it be funny if they revived the railway Cup just for the laugh and invited Dublin too it. By this stage Dublin will probably be dominating all 4 codes at club level too. And their fans will still be telling us that money doesn't matter, the rest of you need to improve.

Agreed. As I said earlier there's been a relatively low rise in participation in Dublin the last 15 years, most of which can be accounted for by population rises and people moving to Dublin with strong rural links to the GAA.

While its great to see Mohammad and Agnieszka swinging a hurley at a cul camp in Dublin, the evidence is that either is unlikely to go on to join a GAA club or represent Dublin at any level.

Leitrim on the otherhand have an Iraqi hurler!

It makes you question who the GDF funds are being seriously targeted at in Dublin.

And why Dublin with 2 and half times the population of Cork received 13 times more in GDF in 10 years still hasn't been answered. The funds Dublin is receiving are vastly out of proportion to their population. There's something seriously amiss.

salmocab

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

While its great to see Mohammad and Agnieszka swinging a hurley at a cul camp in Dublin, the evidence is that either is unlikely to go on to join a GAA club or represent Dublin at any level.

What evidence is that? Genuine question by the way.

blanch152

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Agreed. As I said earlier there's been a relatively low rise in participation in Dublin the last 15 years, most of which can be accounted for by population rises and people moving to Dublin with strong rural links to the GAA.

While its great to see Mohammad and Agnieszka swinging a hurley at a cul camp in Dublin, the evidence is that either is unlikely to go on to join a GAA club or represent Dublin at any level.

Leitrim on the otherhand have an Iraqi hurler!

It makes you question who the GDF funds are being seriously targeted at in Dublin.

And why Dublin with 2 and half times the population of Cork received 13 times more in GDF in 10 years still hasn't been answered. The funds Dublin is receiving are vastly out of proportion to their population. There's something seriously amiss.

At long last, with the bit in bold, you seem to finally grasp the essentials of the issue. The Games Development Funding that Dublin receive is aimed at juvenile participation. One of the key selling points was that increased physical activity among teens would reduce lifelong health issues. So what if Mohammad and Agnieszka never represent Dublin at any level. The money isn't being spent to achieve that, it is being spent to give them the opportunity to play the games while they are kids.

threeball

blanch152 wrote: »

At long last, with the bit in bold, you seem to finally grasp the essentials of the issue. The Games Development Funding that Dublin receive is aimed at juvenile participation. One of the key selling points was that increased physical activity among teens would reduce lifelong health issues. So what if Mohammad and Agnieszka never represent Dublin at any level. The money isn't being spent to achieve that, it is being spent to give them the opportunity to play the games while they are kids.

What a load of scutter. Plenty of unprivileged areas and people in other areas but I suppose these should get their exercise running across the bogs.

You'll make up any aul sh1te at this stage to justify the indefensible.

ToBeFrank123

blanch152 wrote: »

At long last, with the bit in bold, you seem to finally grasp the essentials of the issue. The Games Development Funding that Dublin receive is aimed at juvenile participation. One of the key selling points was that increased physical activity among teens would reduce lifelong health issues. So what if Mohammad and Agnieszka never represent Dublin at any level. The money isn't being spent to achieve that, it is being spent to give them the opportunity to play the games while they are kids.

But they are not playing the game. They are not joining clubs or registering with them.

I can't think of a single Dublin senior, minor or u20 or u21 player in recent years who is first generation Ireland ie parents born elsewhere. The same probably goes for the female teams.

You don't have to name names but if you can think of them, feel free to tell us. The same goes at clubs. There may be a handful at lower levels.

Jason Sherlock is the only significant one in Dublin I can think of the last 30 years.

If participation has been such a success why the failure to seriously spread participation outside a narrow Catholic Irish base in Dublin?

The suspicion is apart from a few cul camps to get Mohammad swinging a hurley, the rest of the money is directed at elite development teams. And of course Dublin clubs have an advantage when they have a full time GDO. Its hard for other clubs nationwide to compete with that.

ToBeFrank123

I notice Dublin fans go to ground on here when they appear to be losing the argument or when they know they haven't a leg to stand to.

As long as Dublin receive massively disproportionate funding to what they should be entitled to based on their population and player registration numbers, their achievements won't be recognised by the general public and there will always be questions asked.

Had they received 2 and half times the funds of Cork for example, and won the 5 in a row, we'd all be patting them on the back. But its very difficult to do that now.

blanch152

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

But they are not playing the game. They are not joining clubs or registering with them.

I can't think of a single Dublin senior, minor or u20 or u21 player in recent years who is first generation Ireland ie parents born elsewhere. The same probably goes for the female teams.

You don't have to name names but if you can think of them, feel free to tell us. The same goes at clubs. There may be a handful at lower levels.

Jason Sherlock is the only significant one in Dublin I can think of the last 30 years.

If participation has been such a success why the failure to seriously spread participation outside a narrow Catholic Irish base in Dublin?

The suspicion is apart from a few cul camps to get Mohammad swinging a hurley, the rest of the money is directed at elite development teams. And of course Dublin clubs have an advantage when they have a full time GDO. Its hard for other clubs nationwide to compete with that.

How many times do you need to be told that it is not about who gets to the senior team? The benchmark is kids playing the game.

We are now discussing apples and oranges.

threeball

blanch152 wrote: »

How many times do you need to be told that it is not about who gets to the senior team? The benchmark is kids playing the game.

We are now discussing apples and oranges.

And you've been told you're talking crap. Like the GAA were acting as some HSE subsidiary. You're getting plenty through to senior but only because you're ploughing money in at development squad level. No inroads is made to untapped demographics as that's not where they will see the success.

There's more racial diversity in westmeath and leitrim at inter county level than the supposed cultural melting pot that is Dublin

blanch152

threeball wrote: »

And you've been told you're talking crap. Like the GAA were acting as some HSE subsidiary. You're getting plenty through to senior but only because you're ploughing money in at development squad level. No inroads is made to untapped demographics as that's not where they will see the success.

There's more racial diversity in westmeath and leitrim at inter county level than the supposed cultural melting pot that is Dublin

With all due respect as someone who stands on a sideline and watches GDOs waste their time with kids, most of whom won't even make a club senior team, it seems like a terribly inefficient way of dominating the world.

And, as previously said, it is only those against the funding who are concerned with success at inter-county level. I see GDOs working in Dublin at grassroots level with children from all walks of life and all colours and creed. If they aren't making it through to senior inter-county, it suggests your theory of GDOs creating All-Irelands is flawed.

Dots1982

You could be here till the year 3000 and some Dublin posters would still say it’s nothing to do with the reasons put forward. Why non Dublin posters bother arguing the odds with Dublin fans who are just in “DENYDENYDENY” mode I will never understand.

And Dublin fans are right to DENY. Don’t get me wrong. When there’s no real argument to put forward given the evidence it’s best to just go into hear no evil, see no evil mode.

For the non Dublin posters; you should get off boards.ie and mail the GAA and highlight the disgrace and say you and your families will never attend games in future instead of wasting your time on here.

StupidLikeAFox

blanch152 wrote: »

How many times do you need to be told that it is not about who gets to the senior team? The benchmark is kids playing the game.

We are now discussing apples and oranges.

You are making a good point in the sense that it's up to the rest of the country to put in the structures to get to Dublin's level. But Dublin got serious assistance from the GAA(alongside a lot of hard work of their own I'm sure) to get to where they are and it worked incredibly well.

Now it's time for the GAA to say that, over the next 5 or 10 years, the focus has to be on getting the medium and lower level counties up to the same standard and in order to do that they need to put people in place and fund those positions like they have done within Dublin.

To put it in to context, I read recently that clubs like ballyboden at endas and ranelagh Gaels have full time gdfs to themselves but Cork has four in the whole county - that surely has to change. They have won 6 of the last 8 all Ireland's and 14 of the last 15 Leinster's, how many do they have to win before the GAA will sit up and say "Jesus maybe we be focus some more of our time and resources on some of the other counties"

RoyalCelt

blanch152 wrote: »

At long last, with the bit in bold, you seem to finally grasp the essentials of the issue. The Games Development Funding that Dublin receive is aimed at juvenile participation. One of the key selling points was that increased physical activity among teens would reduce lifelong health issues. So what if Mohammad and Agnieszka never represent Dublin at any level. The money isn't being spent to achieve that, it is being spent to give them the opportunity to play the games while they are kids.

Yes but why just Dublin? Why not the same treatment for Cork, Antrim, Galway, Newbridge, Navan, Kells, Ashbourne, Waterford, Drogheda, Dundalk, Derry, Carlow, Ennis, Armagh or Omagh?

The GAA is on its ****ing knees if some of these towns and cities but its OK because they're not Dublin. The system is gone to absolute **** and if you Dubs and the GAA dig your heels in to keep the status quo you'll regret it in 20 years.

It will get to the point where you win it every year like the last 4 and the rest of the counties just say **** it we're playing an all Ireland without Dublin.

It's gotten to the point where a North or South Dublin team would dominate Leinster too. The situation is pathetic.

blanch152

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

You are making a good point in the sense that it's up to the rest of the country to put in the structures to get to Dublin's level. But Dublin got serious assistance from the GAA(alongside a lot of hard work of their own I'm sure) to get to where they are and it worked incredibly well.

Now it's time for the GAA to say that, over the next 5 or 10 years, the focus has to be on getting the medium and lower level counties up to the same standard and in order to do that they need to put people in place and fund those positions like they have done within Dublin.

To put it in to context, I read recently that clubs like ballyboden at endas and ranelagh Gaels have full time gdfs to themselves but Cork has four in the whole county - that surely has to change. They have won 6 of the last 8 all Ireland's and 14 of the last 15 Leinster's, how many do they have to win before the GAA will sit up and say "Jesus maybe we be focus some more of our time and resources on some of the other counties"

Colm O'Rourke addressed the Cork question better than I ever could. In 2017, they got more money than anyone else from the GAA, but it all went on a stadium that wasn't needed.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/colm-orourke-cork-football-left-to-count-cost-of-serious-power-failure-37728980.html

blanch152

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Yes but why just Dublin? Why not the same treatment for Cork, Antrim, Galway, Newbridge, Navan, Kells, Ashbourne, Waterford, Drogheda, Dundalk, Derry, Carlow, Ennis, Armagh or Omagh?

The GAA is on its ****ing knees if some of these towns and cities but its OK because they're not Dublin. The system is gone to absolute **** and if you Dubs and the GAA dig your heels in to keep the status quo you'll regret it in 20 years.

It will get to the point where you win it every year like the last 4 and the rest of the counties just say **** it we're playing an all Ireland without Dublin.

It's gotten to the point where a North or South Dublin team would dominate Leinster too. The situation is pathetic.

The who wins the All-Ireland question is a distraction, and isn't what GDO money is about. Dublin will always have an advantage in Leinster because of population, but it is only with the last two managers that they have made it count.

On the Antrim/Galway/Newbridge etc. question, I agree. Something needs to be done in those counties/places, but I have asked repeatedly, where are the plans? I have been told a few times that plans exist or have gone into the GAA, but they seem to be shrouded in secrecy like the Vatican use, because I haven't been able to find a single copy of anyone of these grandiose plans for GDOs around the country.

ToBeFrank123

blanch152 wrote: »

Colm O'Rourke addressed the Cork question better than I ever could. In 2017, they got more money than anyone else from the GAA, but it all went on a stadium that wasn't needed.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/colm-orourke-cork-football-left-to-count-cost-of-serious-power-failure-37728980.html

FFS. Every county needs a stadium and every county has to pay for their own stadium, except Dublin. The old Cork Ui Chaoimh was crumbling.

There's a "Let them eat cake" element about you. You don't seem to understand how or why other counties are struggling to make ends meet. Its because they haven't been given a free stadium or millions to spend on GDOs. Most counties do not have the infinite financial resources to call on of a Dublin.

blanch152

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

FFS. Every county needs a stadium and every county has to pay for their own stadium, except Dublin. The old Cork Ui Chaoimh was crumbling.

There's a "Let them eat cake" element about you. You don't seem to understand how or why other counties are struggling to make ends meet. Its because they haven't been given a free stadium or millions to spend on GDOs. Most counties do not have the infinite financial resources to call on of a Dublin.

Why does every county need a stadium? Why should stadia cost so much and remain empty for 360 days of the year, when money could better be spent on GDOs?

LuckyLloyd

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I think it will reach a stage where a breakaway happens in the GAA and a new all Ireland will be formed without Dublin.

Wouldn't it be funny if they revived the railway Cup just for the laugh and invited Dublin too it. By this stage Dublin will probably be dominating all 4 codes at club level too. And their fans will still be telling us that money doesn't matter, the rest of you need to improve.

I hope you know that if they ever did that Dublin will have beaten you forever, undefeated on the field for the rest of time.

I’m sure there are some actual players, coaches and volunteers out there in the rest of the country with a bit of fire in their belly actively trying to improve and slay the dragon. The whining and fatalism after every Dublin win is weak beyond measure.

Dots1982

Here’s kildare’s strategic plan for those asking “where are the plans?” kildaregaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2018/12/Kildare-GAA-Strategic-Plan-2019-2023.pdf

Most counties can put a plan together, implementing that plan will rely heavily on county board fundraising. Mayo and Kerry set the standard in this. Raising millions a year.

For Dublin different rules apply. They barely do any fundraising and rely on GAA HQ’s games development funds as their biggest income source. Dublin’s expenditure on salaries of staff amount to over a million a year. Way way higher than other county boards.

Yet we keep hearing John Costello is a wonderful administrator....with his county board full of people on high salaries where no fundraising seems to get done.

bruschi

The success of this Dublin investment has been kids playing so we keep being told. Proof of that can only come from playing numbers increasing.

Can anyone give the actual playing numbers and how much they have increased by? How many more kids are now playing as a result of this investment?

If this is the measure of success, then it cant continuously be thrown out without any back up behind it only anecdotal evidence. And what are the playing numbers in other counties?

blanch152

Dots1982 wrote: »

Here’s kildare’s strategic plan for those asking “where are the plans?” kildaregaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2018/12/Kildare-GAA-Strategic-Plan-2019-2023.pdf

Most counties can put a plan together, implementing that plan will rely heavily on county board fundraising. Mayo and Kerry set the standard in this. Raising millions a year.

For Dublin different rules apply. They barely do any fundraising and rely on GAA HQ’s games development funds as their biggest income source. Dublin’s expenditure on salaries of staff amount to over a million a year. Way way higher than other county boards.

Yet we keep hearing John Costello is a wonderful administrator....with his county board full of people on high salaries where no fundraising seems to get done.

Great to see Kildare developing a Strategic Plan. There is no mention of a previous Strategic Plan, and this one is dated from 2019 to 2023, which supports my argument that the reason other counties haven't got the same kind of funding is partly because they haven't developed proper plans.

It certainly is going the right way with statements like "There is a strong focus on underage sport, with a well-structured programme of meaningful games." It has some interesting ideas around targeted interventions with a number of clubs e.g. "Identify 10 Clubs in 2019" and "Advise and guide Clubs regarding Club Nursery establishment and operation".

Fixtures has also been identified as an issue. One of the first things done in Dublin was to establish a calendar for club activities, particularly underage, and stick to it. Appointing a County Fixtures Coordinator as Kildare are doing is an important step.

bruschi

blanch152 wrote: »

Great to see Kildare developing a Strategic Plan. There is no mention of a previous Strategic Plan, and this one is dated from 2019 to 2023, which supports my argument that the reason other counties haven't got the same kind of funding is partly because they haven't developed proper plans.

you keep saying this, but you dont actually know this to be true. Many counties have developed strategic plans previously and applied for funding or maybe didnt, but they still had a strategic plan in place. It doesnt support your argument whatsoever just because you never saw them.

StupidLikeAFox

blanch152 wrote: »

On the Antrim/Galway/Newbridge etc. question, I agree. Something needs to be done in those counties/places, but I have asked repeatedly, where are the plans? I have been told a few times that plans exist or have gone into the GAA, but they seem to be shrouded in secrecy like the Vatican use, because I haven't been able to find a single copy of anyone of these grandiose plans for GDOs around the country.

This is a very good point blanch. By their own admission the GAA helped devise the plan for Dublin GAA to get the capital back to being competitive and ultimately poured a lot of money into the execution of that plan. So I would ask when can other counties or provinces expect the same level of concern from HQ

ArielAtom

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

FFS. Every county needs a stadium and every county has to pay for their own stadium, except Dublin. The old Cork Ui Chaoimh was crumbling.

There's a "Let them eat cake" element about you. You don't seem to understand how or why other counties are struggling to make ends meet. Its because they haven't been given a free stadium or millions to spend on GDOs. Most counties do not have the infinite financial resources to call on of a Dublin.

So it’s ok for Cork to receive 50m between the GAA and taxpayers handouts? The GDO is a different argument, I agree every club should be afforded the same opportunity, county boards fund 50% and club the other. Not all clubs in dublin can afford that either. The money Dublin received went directly into grassroots development and not on the Snr county footballers
As some like to pedal. From 2005, what has been the gross spend in % of cash into the GAA coffers per county? Do you agree then, going forward that it should be funded per head of playing capita? I would hope that a balanced approach would be the order, unlike the lad who wants Dublin to keep finding sponsors and put the GAA money to use in every other county. Every county has dedicated volunteers, to say Dublin’s success is not on s big way down to that is doing each of us a disservice.