Burkie1203 wrote: » Going wellhttps://twitter.com/Howgozza/status/1141790069604454400?s=19
Former Former wrote: » I don't think Folau said he deserves the money more than dying children. Mitchell acting the prick there.
Eod100 wrote: » I don't think he did either but point still stands that his cause is far different from theirs. Obviously people have choice to donate or not but there's far better causes out there.
Eod100 wrote: » You'd wonder why his church don't back him. I would have thought he would have saved a fair bit of money himself over the years too. Pretty sure it's cause he knows he will lose the case so wants to lose other people's money not his.
Former Former wrote: » If he loses having spent all his money on legal fees, then what does he do?
Former Former wrote: » He's 30 and he's never going to play rugby again, he won't be getting too much media work either. If he loses having spent all his money on legal fees, then what does he do? [yes, I know you'll all say, "well, he should have thought of that..."]
Former Former wrote: » It's crowdfunding. There are all sorts of stupid causes on there. If Jenny from Mullingar wants 10k to open a vegan cafe, do people call her out for taking money away from dying children? He belongs to a very small church and I think his dad is the pastor/reverend/whatever - they probably don't have the resources and it would look very bad (and probably illegal) if dad was using church money to bail out his son. He's 30 and he's never going to play rugby again, he won't be getting too much media work either. If he loses having spent all his money on legal fees, then what does he do? [yes, I know you'll all say, "well, he should have thought of that..."]
Dave_The_Sheep wrote: » Squidge (from the video channel/subreddit) starting a gofundme in response to Folau's one.
Former Former wrote: » That's absolutely pathetic. "Israel Folau's intolerance will not be tolerated" Does he not see the incredible hyprocrisy of that?
Eod100 wrote: » Where's the hyocrisy? Nobody is obliged to tolerate intolerance. Intolerance to gay people vs intolerance to people with those views, not equivalent. Not by a long shot
Former Former wrote: » The principles are the same. This guy thinks/acts/feels differently to the majority so he must be ostracised as some sort of freak. I'll keep saying this and people will keep conveniently ignoring it. Any Irish person over the age of 30 is old enough to remember a time when Folau's views on gays were widely accepted by pretty much everyone. The 'progressive' way of dealing with gays was just not to mention it or maybe a knowing nod and the liberal use of air quotes, e.g. Uncle David is visiting his "friend" Michael. That was as tolerant as it got. If you think Folau is an absolute c*nt, remember to look in the mirror, or (depending on your age) tell your parents and grandparents that they're c*nts too. So we've moved on, now we're all loving and tolerant and inclusive. Awesome. Except we're not. We've just found different people to be intolerant of. So I'm going to stick a rainbow filter on my profile pic while I absolutely tear into a guy who's different in a different way. Folau isn't a bad guy, he's not crazy and he's not going round Sydney beating up gays. He just missed the memo that we don't really believe in all that God and hell stuff any more. I would rather that he kept it to himself but I'd rather everyone kept their religions to themselves and that ain't going to happen any time soon.
Bazzo wrote: » I haven't really weighed in on this at all but this is an absolutely dreadful argument. Is it also acceptable to be racist because it was the norm a couple generations ago too? Society moves on for a reason. Thank **** (or God if you prefer) for that.
[34] But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. [35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
sydthebeat wrote: » yeah this is all wrong. i know youre probably still just presenting the contrarian view, but this is so wide of the mark.. its presenting a "changing of views" as though its fashion and, sure it was grand when we held those views a few years ago, so go easy on folau cos hes just a bit behind the times..... The problem with that argument is that it doesnt at all recognise the damage and danger those views hold... and worst still, it doesnt recognise the damage and hurt not challanging those views also causes. The LGBT community suffer suicide rates of generally between 150% - 300% more than their hetro alternatives. They obviously suffer physical abuse, attacks, mental absue, depression etc at higher rates because of who they are. Studies have shown that LGBT inclusive policies lowers all these factors when people are accepted for who they are. Folaus views flies in the face of this. Those views segregate LGBT people as being abhorrent and something to be shameful of. Those views should never be accepted. Those views should always be challenged. While these views are contained within christian doctrine, its only the extreme fundamentalists who espouse and preach those old testament views (see west baptist church). But thankfully the main christian body espouses jesus words in Matthew 22, 34-40 as being a better life policy to live by:
sydthebeat wrote: » yeah this is all wrong. i know youre probably still just presenting the contrarian view, but this is so wide of the mark.. its presenting a "changing of views" as though its fashion and, sure it was grand when we held those views a few years ago, so go easy on folau cos hes just a bit behind the times..... The problem with that argument is that it doesnt at all recognise the damage and danger those views hold... and worst still, it doesnt recognise the damage and hurt not challanging those views also causes. The LGBT community suffer suicide rates of generally between 150% - 300% more than their hetro alternatives. They obviously suffer physical abuse, attacks, mental absue, depression etc at higher rates because of who they are. Studies have shown that LGBT inclusive policies lowers all these factors when people are accepted for who they are. Folaus views flies in the face of this. Those views segregate LGBT people as being abhorrent and something to be shameful of. Those views should never be accepted. Those views should always be challenged.
sydthebeat wrote: » While these views are contained within christian doctrine, its only the extreme fundamentalists who espouse and preach those old testament views (see west baptist church). But thankfully the main christian body espouses jesus words in Matthew 22, 34-40 as being a better life policy to live by:
molloyjh wrote: » Sorry FF, but that post is wrong in so many ways. People are passing judgement on Folau for hating on other people. What he is doing is demonstrably damaging to other people. Those that he is judging are simply not hurting others. A lot of this is live and let live as long as you aren't hurting anyone. He is hurting people. Likely lots of people. His hate speech encourages others to do the same. So hes being called out. As he should be. Not because of the belief, but because of the damage that his actions have done and will continue to do. He can be homophobic all he wants, but once he starts doing damage to others he can just f*** right off. And that's exactly what society as a whole should say to him.
Former Former wrote: » He doesn't think he's hurting anyone.
Deleted User wrote: » I think you are quite wide of the mark here mate. Modern perception of homosexuality is the righting of a very long standing wrong. I don't accept that this is up for debate at all.
Former Former wrote: » Absolutely they should. My only objection is the way in which they are being challenged. I don't like Folau's beliefs. Nevertheless, they are his beliefs. Someone up above said that he chooses to have these beliefs. That's not far off saying someone chooses to be gay, it's completely wrong. Folau was raised as a Mormon (according to Wiki anyway) and is now part of this pentecostal church so this is what he's been hearing all his life. It's part of who he is. The question then becomes, do we try to understand who he is and where he's coming from, or do we dismiss him as a hate-filled lunatic who deserves to lose his job and all his money? I keep reading this and it's, as you might say yourself, yeah, this is all wrong. Catholic teaching remains that gays go to hell. They have a little get-out clause which says that being gay isn't a sin, so long as you are chaste and abstain from sex, which coincidentally is exactly what Folau says. Yeah Pope Francis came out with some nice soundbites about Jesus loving everyone, but he didn't actually do anything to follow through. Papal infalliblity gives him unlimited and unchallenged power to change the church position - but hasn't done so, that can only be because he doesn't want to. So my question is, what are people doing to challenge that? How many posters who are attacking Folau got married in a Catholic church? How many had their kids baptised? How many let their kids learn religion in school? If Folau's beliefs are so abhorrent, why does the majority of Irish society tacitly endorse them?
Former Former wrote: » Catholic teaching remains that gays go to hell. They have a little get-out clause which says that being gay isn't a sin, so long as you are chaste and abstain from sex, which coincidentally is exactly what Folau says.
Former Former wrote: » molloyjh wrote: » Sorry FF, but that post is wrong in so many ways. People are passing judgement on Folau for hating on other people. What he is doing is demonstrably damaging to other people. Those that he is judging are simply not hurting others. A lot of this is live and let live as long as you aren't hurting anyone. He is hurting people. Likely lots of people. His hate speech encourages others to do the same. So hes being called out. As he should be. Not because of the belief, but because of the damage that his actions have done and will continue to do. He can be homophobic all he wants, but once he starts doing damage to others he can just f*** right off. And that's exactly what society as a whole should say to him. You're not listening to my point. He doesn't think he's hurting anyone. He believes that he's helping them. He believes it's his Christian duty to spread the word and save them from an eternity of damnation. That's where he's coming from. I think that as a supposedly tolerant society, we should be trying a little harder to understand that.
Former Former wrote: » So my question is, what are people doing to challenge that?
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