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Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

JCX BXC

The seat map for the B767-200 being leased by EI next year are available on the Aer Lingus website, the seating is 2,3,2 in economy (As was suspected) and 2,2,2 in business

There are 189 economy seats and 12 Business seats making a total of the reported 201 seats.

Anyone know whether the B767 will be repainted, partially or entirely, in the EI colours for the 6 months that its leased for?

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alancostello

tanya1987 wrote: »

Unless the flight times are changed, with the timing when EI lands in Miami there are no connections to South America and few to the US.

A quick look has shown post 10pm (EI arrives at 8pm) flights to Bogotá, Rio de Janerio, Buenos Aries, and Santiago but yes I'd imagine it'd be retimed if/when it happens. You'd have to be mental to connect domestic in MIA unless you're going to a secondary Florida city and even then you're better served by PHL or CLT.

alancostello

IAG has just signed a letter of intent(LOI) for 200 737 MAX aircraft, to be distributed 'across the group, including Vueling and LEVEL', so presumably that's potentially fleet renewal for EI, IB, and/or BA as well.

https://twitter.com/airwayslive/status/1140989557606772736

L1011

200 is about 2/3rds of the entire narrowbody IAG fleet currently.

alancostello

L1011 wrote: »

200 is about 2/3rds of the entire narrowbody IAG fleet currently.

Apparently Willie Walsh mentioned them for BA at Gatwick too, which would probably make up the balance from LEVEL and Vueling.

Captain_Crash

L1011 wrote: »

200 is about 2/3rds of the entire narrowbody IAG fleet currently.

And they already have a s**tload of A32XNEO's on order too so that's prob the replacement orders complete.

I'd imagine they'll be dispersed as required. With an already small fleet and now an updated A321 order, I'd be sure a good few of the A320's on order will be moving to DUB and 737's sticking with BA et al.

blackwhite

alancostello wrote: »

IAG has just signed a letter of intent(LOI) for 200 737 MAX aircraft, to be distributed 'across the group, including Vueling and LEVEL', so presumably that's potentially fleet renewal for EI, IB, and/or BA as well.

https://twitter.com/airwayslive/status/1140989557606772736

You'd imagine they've gotten a very generous price from Boeing. Shades of O'Leary post 9/11 in terms of opportunism.

alancostello

blackwhite wrote: »

You'd imagine they've gotten a very generous price from Boeing. Shades of O'Leary post 9/11 in terms of opportunism.

Oh absolutely, WW loves a deal. That said this is only a LOI not a firm order, this could be a shot across the bow at Airbus.

Tenger

I have no doubt that WW will use any opportunity to pressure Airbus for a good deal. Saying that these 200 B737s are planned “across the IAG” is a hint that he wants a nice deal from Airbus. (That could be costs or slots)

cson wrote: »

"New routes beyond the US East Coast & Canada" is interesting verbiage. Does it suggest something more than just US Midwest/West expansion?

Doubt it. With pre clearance and 14 A321s they can open new routes inland from the East Coast.

Marcusm

cson wrote: »

Carribean bucket and spade seasonal would be the only thing that jumps out.

One does not bring a bucket & spade to the Caribbean, except CUN and PUJ.

x567

tanya1987 wrote: »

Unless the flight times are changed, with the timing when EI lands in Miami there are no connections to South America and few to the US.

...but the opposite is true for connections onto the late departure back to DUB - you can make this from most Caribbean and South American destinations. Just means an overnight in Miami on the way out.

liiga

I wonder how B737max will look with Aerlingus livery ?

Locker10a

liiga wrote: »

I wonder how B737max will look with Aerlingus livery ?

I really doubt it will ever be seen in Aer Lingus livery again. I’d say EI will be kept an all Airbus outfit of a320s, 321lr/xlr and a330. Adding a 737 into the mix would just increase costs for training, operations, maintenance etc they couldn’t justify the costs.
If the 737max even happens at IAG it will probably be totally separate like exclusively Level and Vueling with maybe an exception for BA Gatwick fleet but ever there I can’t see it happening

steve-o

alancostello wrote: »

A quick look has shown post 10pm (EI arrives at 8pm) flights to Bogotá, Rio de Janerio, Buenos Aries, and Santiago but yes I'd imagine it'd be retimed if/when it happens.

Friends don't let friends connect in the US. The hassle of Visa/ESTA, immigration and customs isn't worth it. Especially coming the other way without preclearance. And connecting from Europe to Brazil, Argentina or Chile via USA is a long way around. Connecting in London, Paris or Madrid is much faster.

alancostello

steve-o wrote: »

Friends don't let friends connect in the US. The hassle of Visa/ESTA, immigration and customs isn't worth it. Especially coming the other way without preclearance. And connecting from Europe to Brazil, Argentina or Chile via USA is a long way around. Connecting in London, Paris or Madrid is much faster.

Eastern Brazil I'll give to you would be quicker through Europe, Chile is much of a muchness over that long a distance, but Bogotá and Lima are still much quicker via MIA.

We have seem time and time again the only thing that matters to most people is price, and every time I've ever looked BA and AF are some of the most expensive options to get to South America.

I guarantee if EI/AA through MIA offer 10%-20% cheaper flights to Santiago and even Rio ex-DUB the majority of people will take them over quicker but more expensive routings on BA/AF/IB.

cson

Marcusm wrote: »

One does not bring a bucket & spade to the Caribbean, except CUN and PUJ.

CUN was what I was getting at, it's a very popular destination these days for Irish folk. You might get enough US retirees going the other way to make it viable.

IE 222

Will this bring the total of A321lr/xlr to 20 frames? This would will free up a lot of short haul frames for new Euro routes if they can allocate a Euro leg throughout the day.

Surely there is a market for connecting traffic to more eastern destinations such as Moscow, Tel Aviv, North Africa, West Africa and possibly Saudi Arabia if they can develop this new direction their seeking.

Tenger

IE 222 wrote: »

Will this bring the total of A321lr/xlr to 20 frames? This would will free up a lot of short haul frames for new Euro routes if they can allocate a Euro leg throughout the day.

This order is for 6 XLR to go to Aer Lingus, this would be on top of the existing 8 LR getting delivered within the next 12 months. So 14 in total by 2023.
IAG may well have options on another dozen above the 14 mentioned today. (Vueling and Level certainly may want some) So post 2023 we could see more arriving. Having perhaps 6 of these 14 on Euro routes per day (LHR,CDG,FRA,FCO etc) would obviously free up A320s to open new routes or boost capacity.

I can see EI being allocated A320/321neo’s for shorthaul replacement in the next 2-3 years as well.

Considering their current market of lots of US sourced pax, I don’t think those routes mentioned would get too much of the price sensitive leisure market willing to fly indirect.

Locker10a

The 321neoLR/XLR seems to be really shaping up to be a game changer. Especially for EI. Interesting times ahead, god knows how they’re going to manage stand/gate allocation at DUB over the next few years, especially at T2

Van.Bosch

Locker10a wrote: »

The 321neoLR/XLR seems to be really shaping up to be a game changer. Especially for EI. Interesting times ahead, god knows how they’re going to manage stand/gate allocation at DUB over the next few years, especially at T2

True but it’s easier to fit an A321LR/XLR than a A330, another benefit.

alancostello

Van.Bosch wrote: »

True but it’s easier to fit an A321LR/XLR than a A330, another benefit.

If memory serves some of the stands at T2 built for dual A32x or one A330, so at least they won't take up the same as one A330. My bigger concern is preclearance, it's been an absolute nightmare the last few weeks, that new expanded facility can't come soon enough.

IE 222

Tenger wrote: »

This order is for 6 XLR to go to Aer Lingus, this would be on top of the existing 8 LR getting delivered within the next 12 months. So 14 in total by 2023.
IAG may well have options on another dozen above the 14 mentioned today. (Vueling and Level certainly may want some) So post 2023 we could see more arriving. Having perhaps 6 of these 14 on Euro routes per day (LHR,CDG,FRA,FCO etc) would obviously free up A320s to open new routes or boost capacity.

I can see EI being allocated A320/321neo’s for shorthaul replacement in the next 2-3 years as well.

Considering their current market of lots of US sourced pax, I don’t think those routes mentioned would get too much of the price sensitive leisure market willing to fly indirect.

So the extra 4 or 6 A321lr on top of the original 8 order that was been talked about will now become 6 A321xlr instead.

How many A330 are expected to arrive by next year?

Is there any scope of ordering A321 neo's for Euro routes with all economy.

Captain_Crash

Tenger wrote: »

This order is for 6 XLR to go to Aer Lingus, this would be on top of the existing 8 LR getting delivered within the next 12 months. So 14 in total by 2023

So have the 4 options on the original order been converted to 6 firm XLR orders?

Tenger

Captain_Crash wrote: »

So have the 4 options on the original order been converted to 6 firm XLR orders?

No mention yet. May never be referred to if this new order includes previous options.

As for the A320/321neo. Im sure EI will have them in the fleet within 5 years.

A330s. EI stated in January at the livery launch that they are getting 2 new A333s from Airbus. One in Q419 and another in Q120.

goingnowhere

IE 222 wrote: »

Is there any scope of ordering A321 neo's for Euro routes with all economy.

A321neo lr IS a A321 neo, you just remove the ACT fuel tanks to return to basic neo spec and activate the additional emergency exits

The A321neo lr will be flying DUB-LHR/CDG and others from end of 2019

The A321neo xlr is structurally different as the primary additional fuel tank is built in (but it carries more fuel in less space than the ACT's in the lr)

IE 222

goingnowhere wrote: »

A321neo lr IS a A321 neo, you just remove the ACT fuel tanks to return to basic neo spec and activate the additional emergency exits

The A321neo lr will be flying DUB-LHR/CDG and others from end of 2019

The A321neo xlr is structurally different as the primary additional fuel tank is built in (but it carries more fuel in less space than the ACT's in the lr)

I thought as much. Would there be any scope in EI taking A321s with all economy layout with seating for 220-230 for Euro routes.

IE 222

Tenger wrote: »

No mention yet. May never be referred to if this new order includes previous options.

As for the A320/321neo. Im sure EI will have them in the fleet within 5 years.

A330s. EI stated in January at the livery launch that they are getting 2 new A333s from Airbus. One in Q419 and another in Q120.

I thought they were getting 12 A321LR for sure and that was potentially be upped to 14?

I knew about the 2 ordered ones but was there not talk of a 3rd or 4th possibly coming as well or was that just the rumour mill. Think its was surfaced when Jet airways collapsed and Qatar were looking to offload more A330s.

Kcormahs

IE 222 wrote: »

I thought they were getting 12 A321LR for sure and that was potentially be upped to 14?

I knew about the 2 ordered ones but was there not talk of a 3rd or 4th possibly coming as well or was that just the rumour mill. Think its was surfaced when Jet airways collapsed and Qatar were looking to offload more A330s.

Confirmed a321LR there was only 8. People specualated 12 and 14 because at the time IAG was already considering the XLRs as a further addition. But the initial and only order of a321LR is and was only 8.

in regards to the a330, 2 -300 are confirmed on the airbus order page. the 1 or 2 spare from Jetairways/Qatar aren't confirmed but could well be true. Last I heard, one of those (think it was Jetairways) the engines wouldn't be suitable for the EI fleet in terms of maintenance and they just gave up on those. This could be only a rumour though.

liiga

I would imagine aerlingus a321xlr aircraft will have the eyeliner ?

L1011

liiga wrote: »

I would imagine aerlingus a321xlr aircraft will have the eyeliner ?

No reason it would if the conventional LRs aren't getting it.

Cookiemunster

liiga wrote: »

I would imagine aerlingus a321xlr aircraft will have the eyeliner ?

I think it's up to the airline as to whether they want it or not. EIs A321LRs don't have them, but launch customer Arkia has it and Air Transat have it.