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GLAS thread

Muckit

There may be some interest in setting this up to help with any GLAS related items.

My questions (although not exclusively glas related) are as follows:

I have LIPP and l am trying to work out in real terms what chemical N l am allowed to put out.

So far l've converted the 40kg/ha limit to kg/acre which works put @ 16.19kg/acre.

Now take say a 50kg bag of CAN. That's 27%N so am l right in saying this works out @ 13.5kg? So really a bag of CAN is all that is allowed/annum?

Or if spreading typical compound like 18-6-12 that 1.5bags/acre can be comfortably spread?

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Lady Haywire

Yea i think if you're doing your best & not taking the actual piss you're ok. Our sowing looking the same way tbh. We have the seed in the shed for 3 weeks, contractor just hasn't had time to come do the field for it.

Hill Bill

Is anyone else having trouble with crows eating the WBC seed?
Contractor set the seed 2 weeks ago, the crows have most of the seed eaten or pulled up. I can’t bear to look at it now, waste of time & money!

Qprmeath

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Yea i think if you're doing your best & not taking the actual piss you're ok. Our sowing looking the same way tbh. We have the seed in the shed for 3 weeks, contractor just hasn't had time to come do the field for it.

Catch crop last year I did my best and not taking the actual piss but am currently appealing being thrown out of the scheme so be careful.

endainoz

I'm going to try stiching for the WBC this year, had to get organic seed and couldn't spray so have topped the grass as low as possible and hopefully it'll work. Will be interesting to see how it works, might try it for reseeding down the line.

20silkcut

Hill Bill wrote: »

Is anyone else having trouble with crows eating the WBC seed?
Contractor set the seed 2 weeks ago, the crows have most of the seed eaten or pulled up. I can’t bear to look at it now, waste of time & money!

Yes major problem.

You have two options.
1. Buy a crow banger €270. Add on another €100 for a timer.

2. The flying hawk kite. €175. €45 on Amazon . But you have to have it in place before you sow. Will cover 20 acres .

Both of the above are at major risk of theft if the field is isolated.

The banger is the best option but a fairly pricy investment for a non tillage farmer. It would have pushed my spend on sowing the crop this year well north of €1000.

I bought a fake owl €35 and put him on a stake. Absolutely useless.

The Kale will be fine. But the oats are well decimated. I watched the crows with binoculars they just dig the seed out of the ground could eat 10-20 seeds in 2 mins and scores of them at it for hours on end.
But sure they are wild birds and they are happy doing it. So aren’t we keeping wild birds happy?

Capercaillie

Hill Bill wrote: »

Is anyone else having trouble with crows eating the WBC seed?
Contractor set the seed 2 weeks ago, the crows have most of the seed eaten or pulled up. I can’t bear to look at it now, waste of time & money!

Try different seed, kale/fodder radish.

Water John

Move the hawk around every few days as they tend to get used to it. Crows cleaned out the triticale on my WBC last year.

Base price

DAFM carried out some evaluations on the effectiveness of GLAS actions. It doesn't make for any promising news and as previously been said on F&F GLAS isn't much of a success for wildlife.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/environment-what-worked-with-glas-469098

Water John

Question, can I reseed my meadow after cutting it on July 1st? I would be using a multiple grass/clover mix and would put in herb mix as well.

Dozer1

After getting a letter on Friday from GLAS...issue with P levels of fertiliser balls anyway must try figure it out as I'm applying very little I thought and they are notifying the cross compliance dept aswell...nice welcome back from my hols...

Base price

Water John wrote: »

Question, can I reseed my meadow after cutting it on July 1st? I would be using a multiple grass/clover mix and would put in herb mix as well.

Good question and one that is not easy to find an answer too. I had a look at the specs and t&c's and didn't come across any mention of reseeding - it maybe in there somewhere but I didn't find it.

I came across this recent GLAS publication from Tegasc and it states that THM cannot be reseeded although interestingly it doesn't state the same for LIPP.

https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/publications/2018/Environment-Newsletter-April-2018.pdf

Water John

Was aware PP could not. I'd be very much improving the diversity of this sward. It's organic seed so dear enough. Double disc and roll it in.
Many thanks for the reply, Base.
I think they have that wrong as def LIPP cannot be reseeded.

Base price

Water John wrote: »

Was aware PP could not. I'd be very much improving the diversity of this sward. It's organic seed so dear enough. Double disc and roll it in.
Many thanks for the reply, Base.
I think they have that wrong as def LIPP cannot be reseeded.

I always thought that too but again I cannot see any mention of it.

A neighbour had to stitch seed into an area of his LIPP as it got badly poached. He bought a special mix that had the old type grasses. I was looking at it during the week and you wouldn't be able to identify the area as it contains as much docks and thistles as the rest of the field.

Water John

My understanding is that it had to be an 8 year old sward. Where did I get that from?

Lady Haywire

I thought it had to be an old sward as well. Here- https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/publications/2018/Environment-Newsletter-April-2018.pdf it says 'Do not Reseed' but it's a Teagasc thingy, not a dept one.

Water John

Went looking to answer my own question. This is all I could find on page 79

'Select a suitable Traditional Hay Meadow that must contain a minimum of three grass
species such as cocksfoot, timothy, bent grasses, fescues, sweet vernal, Yorkshire fog, etc.
(excluding Ryegrasses) that are widely dispersed throughout the LPIS parcel and where
the entire area of the full parcel or part parcel (see 3 below) can be mowed with a tractor
mower. Where Ryegrasses are present, they must not occupy more than 50% of the sward' Glas Tranche 3 Specification.

Must check the seed mix I might use. It has cocksfoot, timothy and meadow fescue, just checked.

Water John

Now the memory isn't that bad, here what it says about LIPP;

'Selected LPIS parcels must have been declared as forage on the SPS for the previous 8 years'

'Select a suitable pasture that contains a minimum of four grass species (excluding
Ryegrasses), for example cocksfoot, timothy, bent grasses, fescues, sweet vernal,
Yorkshire fog, etc and a minimum of three other non-grass plant species, for example
plantain, chickweed, trefoils etc and these must be reasonably dispersed throughout the
field. There must be less than 30% Ryegrass cover.'

This condition would seem to rule out reseeding but mixes are becoming available with plantain and other plants.

Base price

Water John wrote: »

Went looking to answer my own question. This is all I could find on page 79

'Select a suitable Traditional Hay Meadow that must contain a minimum of three grass
species such as cocksfoot, timothy, bent grasses, fescues, sweet vernal, Yorkshire fog, etc.
(excluding Ryegrasses) that are widely dispersed throughout the LPIS parcel and where
the entire area of the full parcel or part parcel (see 3 below) can be mowed with a tractor
mower. Where Ryegrasses are present, they must not occupy more than 50% of the sward' Glas Tranche 3 Specification.

Must check the seed mix I might use. It has cocksfoot, timothy and meadow fescue, just checked.

Have a look at page 70 - Appendix 13: Activities Requiring Consent (ARC) list -
https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/glastranche1/GLASTranche1Spec161015.pdf

Water John

Thanks Base,
ARC 15
'Burning, topping, clearing scrub or rough vegetation or reseeding. [Consent is not required for these
activities on established reseeded grassland or cultivated land provided it is greater than 20m from a
river, stream or floodplain; or greater than 50m from a wetland, lake, turlough or pond.'

Looks like reseeding is permitted on both LIPP and Traditional Meadow, provided one uses the correct mix.

80sDiesel

I assume no topping etc doest prevent someone from digging up docks?

Base price

80sDiesel wrote: »

I assume no topping etc doest prevent someone from digging up docks?

I wouldn't think so.
BTW when your finished with yours you are more than welcome to free board and lodgings at ours

Base price

Water John wrote: »

Thanks Base,
ARC 15
'Burning, topping, clearing scrub or rough vegetation or reseeding. [Consent is not required for these
activities on established reseeded grassland or cultivated land provided it is greater than 20m from a
river, stream or floodplain; or greater than 50m from a wetland, lake, turlough or pond.'

Looks like reseeding is permitted on both LIPP and Traditional Meadow, provided one uses the correct mix.

That was my reading of it too.

Water John

One would nearly need to be a lawyer to make sure to interpret the language correctly. I'd be using organic mixtures and the're pricey. Will tackle the meadow first.
Help much appreciated. I mean here, not on the job.

PoorFarmer

Water John wrote:

Must check the seed mix I might use. It has cocksfoot, timothy and meadow fescue, just checked.

Where did you get this seed mix?

Base price

Water John wrote: »

One would nearly need to be a lawyer to make sure to interpret the language correctly. I'd be using organic mixtures and the're pricey. Will tackle the meadow first.
Help much appreciated. I mean here, not on the job.

I would suggest that you cover your arse and check with your agri consultant before doing any reseeding. Just in case our interpretations of the rules are incorrect.

Base price

PoorFarmer wrote: »

Where did you get this seed mix?

Most agri stores can source/supply the appropriate grass mixes.

PoorFarmer

Base price wrote:

Most agri stores can source/supply the appropriate grass mixes.

Thanks Base. Was only looking for a couple of bags. Cleaned out a few ditches in THM over the winter and would be handy if I could throw out a few bags of seed similar to what is growing there already. Kerry not great to source specialised stuff in small quantities or maybe that's just my local branch

Water John

These are organic, posting it as it's a bit difficult to locate on their website;
https://www.fruithillfarm.com/seeds-and-propagation/green-manures-and-forage-crops/grass-and-meadow-mixes.html

Seed is imported from Germany. Chat to Elmer.

Capercaillie

Water John wrote: »

Now the memory isn't that bad, here what it says about LIPP;

'Selected LPIS parcels must have been declared as forage on the SPS for the previous 8 years'

'Select a suitable pasture that contains a minimum of four grass species (excluding
Ryegrasses), for example cocksfoot, timothy, bent grasses, fescues, sweet vernal,
Yorkshire fog, etc and a minimum of three other non-grass plant species, for example
plantain, chickweed, trefoils etc and these must be reasonably dispersed throughout the
field. There must be less than 30% Ryegrass cover.'

This condition would seem to rule out reseeding but mixes are becoming available with plantain and other plants.

Basic standard for LIPP is disappointing low: 4 grass species and 3 other other non-grass species

ganmo

Capercaillie wrote: »

Basic standard for LIPP is disappointing low: 4 grass species and 3 other other non-grass species

they wanted people to be able to pick their options, if they put high standards on every option they wouldn't of gotten the uptake.