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Vatican issues document rejecting idea that people can choose or change gender

the culture of deference

What can you say anymore about the RCC. They are just determined to destroy themselves from the inside. Remember they control our schools.

The Vatican has issued an official document rejecting the idea that people can choose or change their genders and insisting on the sexual “complementarity” of men and women to make babies.

Pope Francis has repeatedly argued the position that people cannot choose their genders.
The document called for a new alliance among families, schools and society to offer a “positive and prudent sexual education” in Catholic schools so children learn the “full original truth of masculinity and femininity”.

It called gender fluidity a symptom of the “confused concept of freedom” and “momentary desires” that characterise post-modern culture.

It rejected terms such as “intersex” and “transgender” and said the purpose of the biological “complementarity” of the male and female sex organs was to ensure procreation.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/vatican-rejects-idea-people-can-choose-or-change-genders-1.3921015

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[Deleted User]

eviltwin wrote: »

Does anyone really care what the RCC thinks anymore?

This. The thoughts of the RCC seem to be of concern only to A) Old school practising Catholics, a singularly diminishing constituency and

The stereotype-loving British media/The Irish Times/traditional British Unionists.

At least since Humanae Vitae in 1968 the teachings on sexuality of that Church have been widely ignored. The entire ultramontane Roman Catholicism stuff in Ireland only had a heyday of about 120 years anyway (from about 1850 on). The way the usual suspects go on you'd swear it had been strutting its stuff in Ireland for centuries. Even during that heyday there was always a strong anti-clerical tradition that came almost in its entirety from the radical economic and political left of Irish society.

klaaaz

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I didn’t deny the opinion of thousands of scientists at all. I disagreed with your interpretation of their opinions. They’re two very different things. Scientists disagree on fundamental concepts within their fields of expertise all the time and it’s not embarrassing for anyone, it’s how people gain knowledge and understanding of our world - through dialogue and discussion and the development of ideas. Quite the opposite of what you try to do by attempting to shut down anyone’s opinions you disagree with. Fortunately you just don’t have the kind of power it takes to dictate what other people should think for themselves.

You previously claimed that science was heavily influenced by politics without a shred of proof. 2,617 scientists disagreed with you, that hurt you alot.

Former Observer wrote: »

Lol. What age are you? Twelve?

Older than you kid, way past your bedtime?

[Deleted User]

It's issues like this as well, that will probably make people realize, dya know maybe the church isn't spouting complete nonsense..

DEFTLEFTHAND

Klaaz you're talking about gender not sex. As you rightly point out Gender Dysphoria has been recognised in science for decades.

However it is biologically impossible to change sex. Anybody in a first yr secondary school biology class can tell us that, nevermind a group of scientists.

klaaaz

Deleted User wrote: »

It's issues like this as well, that will probably make people realize, dya know maybe the church isn't spouting complete nonsense..

No surprise there on your past religious leaning posts.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Klaaz you're talking about gender not sex. As you rightly point out Gender Dysphoria has been recognised in science for decades.

However it is biologically impossible to change sex. Anybody in a first yr secondary school biology class can tell us that, nevermind a group of scientists.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/az/g/gender-dysphoria/ The medical professionals disagree with you boards poster.

Glass fused light

FFred wrote: »

Man has Willy.
Woman has front bum.
End.

Ermmmm no.
Women do not have a second anus.

They too have sexual reproduction organs, these bits are for growing the babies in.

One eyed Jack

klaaaz wrote: »

You previously claimed that science was heavily influenced by politics without a shred of proof. 2,617 scientists disagreed with you, that hurt you alot.

Science, and in particular the social sciences, are heavily influenced by politics, and I have presented you with proof, numerous times now.

2,167 scientists did not disagree with me. They gave their opinions, and most of the people listed on that statement have no qualifications in the science of human biology either, but the point is - they weren’t making the claim you’re claiming they made, so no, it doesn’t hurt at all that some people are of one opinion and other people are of a different opinion, and none of those people share your opinion.

sabat

Glass fused light wrote: »

Ermmmm no.
Women do not have a second anus.

They too have sexual reproduction organs, these bits are for growing the babies in.

Oh look, a college boy.

klaaaz

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Science, and in particular the social sciences, are heavily influenced by politics, and I have presented you with proof, numerous times now.

2,167 scientists did not disagree with me. They gave their opinions, and most of the people listed on that statement have no qualifications in the science of human biology either, but the point is - they weren’t making the claim you’re claiming they made, so no, it doesn’t hurt at all that some people are of one opinion and other people are of a different opinion, and none of those people share your opinion.

Ha fecking ha!

2,617 scientists fundamentally disagreed with you and that is your comeback?..ROFL

A reminder to the science deniers here and their followers in the Vatican
https://not-binary.org/statement/

Make your choice, do you believe religion or science?

[Deleted User]

klaaaz wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

It's issues like this as well, that will probably make people realize, dya know maybe the church isn't spouting complete nonsense..

No surprise there on your past religious leaning posts.

Well.. yeah..tbh like, I'm not particularly religious.. like, I'm your run of the mill lapsed Catholic I would imagine..go to mass once or twice a year..I just wouldn't be too quick to go "aarrggh..fnck the church etc.."
To be honest I'm as shocked as everyone else how often I find myself defending them on here..
These Dawkins heads annoy the piss out of me, because they seem to have no appreciation for metaphor, a very shallow conception of reality, and, yeah, it's like listening to a rebellious teenager half the time..

Back on topic..if there's a discrepancy between your physical body and your mind..I would say the issue lies with your mind..
Like, if was here saying I identified as Jesus.. would you be all "yes, you are the son of God"?, or would you go "there's something wrong with that lad.."??

One eyed Jack

klaaaz wrote: »

Ha fecking ha!

2,617 scientists fundamentally disagreed with you and that is your comeback?..ROFL

A reminder to the science deniers here and their followers in the Vatican
https://not-binary.org/statement/

Make your choice, do you believe religion or science?

The only contradiction between them is the one that you invented. I hope you’re not trying to suggest that people cannot be both religious and scientifically minded? Because you would be wrong on that score too, given that there have been numerous scientists throughout human history who were also religious -

It's a big, fat myth that all scientists are religion-hating atheists

I really hate to be the one to break the news, but scientist is not synonymous with atheist. Scientists also don't all have the same gender, race, sexual orientation or political ideology, much less religion or lack thereof. Whether or not a person is religious, with respect to their vocation as a scientist, is completely irrelevant. Just like sexual orientation, race and gender should be irrelevant to being a scientist. Reinforcing the scientist = atheist stereotype, whether you are for it or against it, necessarily excludes people. No one should be excluded from science if they want to do it, be excited about it or read about it.

klaaaz

Deleted User wrote: »

Back on topic..if there's a discrepancy between your physical body and your mind..I would say the issue lies with your mind..

Do you believe religion or science is correct as per the topic about gender? You and your fellow adherents have the choice to choose on the topic, believe in science or your God on the matter.

[Deleted User]

klaaaz wrote: »

Do you believe religion or science is correct as per the topic about gender? You and your fellow adherents have the choice to choose on the topic, believe in science or your God on the matter.

But shur like the science is being ideologically driven..
Like, when did we seperate gender from sex?..tbh, people just look for labels, to want to be a part of some group..they see this nonsense now and go 'maybe this is why I'm not happy etc', and declare themselves as whatever..It's just neurosis..It's not like it's the answer for a lot of them either, because they're still just as unhappy after they transition..

Glass fused light

klaaaz wrote: »

Do you believe religion or science is correct as per the topic about gender? You and your fellow adherents have the choice to choose on the topic, believe in science or your God on the matter.

What is gender?

klaaaz

Deleted User wrote: »

But shur like the science is being ideologically driven..
Like, when did we seperate gender from sex?..tbh, people just look for labels, to want to be a part of some group..they see this nonsense now and go 'maybe this is why I'm not happy etc', and declare themselves as whatever..It's just neurosis..It's not like it's the answer for a lot of them either, because they're still just as unhappy after they transition..

There is zero evidence that science is ideologically driven as you put it, thousands of them scientists have studied human biology and associated aspects.

Regarding labels, i'm not sure if you are referring to the recent wave of a tiny weeny number of teens "latching" onto a cause(as per Primetime documentary), or what are you referring to exactly?

One eyed Jack

klaaaz wrote: »

There is zero evidence that science is ideologically driven as you put it, thousands of them scientists have studied human biology and associated aspects.

You’re wrong there -

Science says liberals, not conservatives, are psychotic

[Deleted User]

klaaaz wrote: »

There is zero evidence that science is ideologically driven as you put it, thousands of them scientists have studied human biology and associated aspects.

Regarding labels, i'm not sure if you are referring to the recent wave of a tiny weeny number of teens "latching" onto a cause(as per Primetime documentary), or what are you referring to exactly?

But like, the way science works now is someone writes a paper..someone else cites that paper..someone else cites that paper etc..it just snowballs..especially in the humanities..
As a subject there has been a movement to normalise it in the media..popping up in tv shows etc..people are impressionable and see this and think it might be the answer for them..and they are now being encouraged..added to that the fact that the internet has just given voice to stupid, and these things can just snowball,.

kowloon

FFred wrote: »

Man has Willy.
Woman has front bum.
End.

ILoveYourVibes

WHO THE **** ASKED HIM FOR HIS OPINIONS?

HE has nothing but hate in his heart for people and the only way the church can get in the headlines and be relevant is by picking fights and spewing their evil bitter hatred.

No one WANTS them stirring up hatred in the world.

How many wars has the church started?

And now they want everyone to hate trans people?

These people are dark.

Irish Guitarist

I've always found it a ridiculous idea to demand that every religious belief that inconveniences you be changed.

"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours wife". Fuck that shit. I want to ride the arse off my neighbours wife. Preferably on top of an altar.

padd b1975

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

WHO THE **** ASKED HIM FOR HIS OPINIONS?

HE has nothing but hate in his heart for people and the only way the church can get in the headlines and be relevant is by picking fights and spewing their evil bitter hatred.

No one WANTS them stirring up hatred in the world.

How many wars has the church started?

And now they want everyone to hate trans people?

These people are dark.

^^^^
I think this lad may have a problem with the catholic church...

Hobosan

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

WHO THE **** ASKED HIM FOR HIS OPINIONS?

HE has nothing but hate in his heart for people and the only way the church can get in the headlines and be relevant is by picking fights and spewing their evil bitter hatred.

No one WANTS them stirring up hatred in the world.

How many wars has the church started?

And now they want everyone to hate trans people?

These people are dark.

Have you accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior?

uck51js9zml2yt

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Church has issue with people who don't conform to their worldview

Meh.

Everyone has problems with those who don't conform to their worldview. Transgenders are as bad.

Fwiw, the RCC is right.

Zorya

klaaaz wrote: »

There is zero evidence that science is ideologically driven as you put it, thousands of them scientists have studied human biology and associated aspects.
?

On this matter, I found this chap's musings to be interesting. The science of biology is at this time being completely ideologically corrupted. And people involved in the area are too afraid to speak out about it for fear of losing their jobs.

From 1.30 mins...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmFZ0deR_vA

On the matter of the Church, I purposefully left it at aged 16 because I was disappointed in the overall hypocrisy and because it no longer fulfilled my metaphysical needs. Happily though I never have experienced the blinding rage many seem to have towards it, an unthinking anger which causes them to blame the church for everything from the pimple on their arse to global war. Nor have I ever been attracted by the demanding religion of militant atheism.

When I look around the world we live in now I see that many of the very best things and ideas that exist in it are here because of the civilising force of philosophical religion. The Church, as the most recent embodiment of that sphere of human endeavour, at least for the past 2000 years, has been an unmatched intellectual goad in our history. Its theologians and philosophers prompted the scientific revolution.
Many of those theologians and thinkers trace their intellectual antecedence to the great philosophies of the pagan period, Plato and before, and onwards to the neo-Platonists, without whose ideas we would be significantly impoverished.
Those early European philosophers were in turn influenced from even further afield via hubs like Alexandria and so on, so that thought from places such as Asia co-mingled with emerging ideas in old Europe, and each fertilised the other. This is an enormous part of human evolution.

The impetus of human intellectual evolution has largely been based on non-material thought, metaphysics in essence, the desire to know the unknowable. One could say that from archaeological study we can understand that it has always been metaphysical yearning that has propelled humankind towards all its greatests achievements and evolution. Materialism is a reasonably modern yoke.

In Europe we are surrounded by, immersed in, the physical and intellectual evidence that it was the Church's aspiration towards metaphysical understanding, and the influence of such on the minds of the people, that has given us the great works of art, music, literature, philosophy, architecture which dominate and have shaped for the better our inner and outer landscapes.

This is why I find knee jerk reactions that start with ''The church...blah blah'' to be very immature.

On this passing matter, the Pope, who seems like a very nice chap, from what little I know of him, is simply stating the truth. No biggie.

TuringBot47

the culture of deference wrote: »

The Vatican has issued an official document rejecting the idea that people can choose or change their genders and insisting on the sexual “complementarity” of men and women to make babies.

For once science and religion are in agreement.
The "sexual complementarity of men and women to make babies" just nails it.

Everyone else deserves a darwin award.

suicide_circus

even a stopped clock is right twice a day

Hobosan

suicide_circus wrote: »

even a stopped clock is right twice a day

The Vatican identify as a clock? Bloody hypocrites.

Kermit.de.frog

...

[Deleted User]

i wonder how many ppl srsly affected by this issue were seeking the opinion of the RCC on it

ppl informed by RCC edict on such topics were not ever going to be kindly disposed towards the concepts involved regardless

being (or feigning to be) outraged at this entirely unsurprising statement is a staggeringly poor use of one's emotional energy

ppl are allowed to feel they are the wrong gender/sex and they are allowed to take steps about it if they wish. its a personal thing, just like all the other political issues the church has been wrong about lately.

anyone hugely upset by it at this stage probably has to look at themselves and ask why. are they deeply attached to the word of the church or are they deeply attached to being hugely upset by stuff.

hint: you see a lot more evidence of one than the other

nb: the phraseology of "denying the right to exist" when somebody doesnt automatically agree with ones opinion is the frontier of internet awfulness

TuringBot47

Deleted User wrote: »

ppl are allowed to feel they are the wrong gender/sex and they are allowed to take steps about it if they wish.

Even I agree with that.

I don't agree that they have been transformed into the opposite sex though or have 100% the same legal rights as their "target sex".

So the more extreme side of trans is clearly over-reaching on what is reasonable.