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Why do Irish people support English teams?

DEFTLEFTHAND

I was born and raised in Tipperary. My mother kept the home when Dad worked.

Dad worked in the merchant navy for yrs and loved soccer.

He lived in Inchicore when I was born. He was an officer on the Holyhead ferry.

We used to go to Richmond Park. Some of my earliest memomories in life are of him swearing and getting angry with me up on his lap.

He was a very emotive man, but very loving.

I just could never get why most of Dublin and the rest of the country supported the English league .

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odyssey06

Bateman wrote: »

This sort of facetiousness is the worst kind of excuse making.
By supporting Bohs you are contributing to Irish football, contributing to facilities, contributing to the concept of there one day being a full-time league in this country to produce competent internationals instead of relying on England to do it for us.

No - the facetiousness and excuse making is in the idea that you can only be a real fan if you have some mystical community connection to your local club. That you must stick to them no matter what level they fall to. Which provokes some absurd questions:
Why start following a LOI team at all if level doesn't matter?
How local is local?
Can you have this deep mystical connection to more than one team?

Of course you can support however many teams you like at whatever level of the pyramid, however local or far. You can support Tolka Rovers, Bohemians and Liverpool, if you like and have that capacity.

Your answers are all to the point of "Why you should support a LOI team", which is a rational position, but totally different to the question of "Why people follow English teams" or "You are only a real fan if X", which is what I was responding to in a provocative manner to demonstrate its absurdity.

odyssey06

D14Rugby wrote: »

Is there something about the word both you don't understand?
Supporting a Sunday league and a LOI team are the equivalent of supporting a club and a national team, or a rugby club and a province.

No it isn't, someone can't play for Tolka Rovers and Bohemians. How many players have simultaneously played for a LSL team AND a LOI team?
How many players have played for a club and country?
See the obvious difference?
How can a real fan have a deep local mystical connection to two teams? Real fans walk to games! Singing the club's song in close harmony, as the fans hear the song they walk out of their doors, swelling the ranks.

OMM 0000

D14Rugby wrote: »

Supporting a Sunday league and a LOI team are the equivalent of supporting a club and a national team, or a rugby club and a province.

It's not though.

There are many differences, but here's a big one, and it's a big part of the reason LOI is not mainstream:

There are almost no scum at rugby games.

I can't say the same for LOI games.

Until this is fixed, you're wasting your time.

Bateman

OMM 0000 wrote: »

It's not though.

There are many differences, but here's a big one, and it's a big part of the reason LOI is not mainstream:

There are almost no scum at rugby games.

I can't say the same for LOI games.

Until this is fixed, you're wasting your time.

More stupid excuses

the level of violence in the GAA is absolutely staggering but press coverage of the GAA is almost entirely positive, big difference

By and large if you don’t want trouble you won’t get it at an LOI game

College rugby scene no stranger to fighting either

OMM 0000

Bateman wrote: »

More stupid excuses

the level of violence in the GAA is absolutely staggering but press coverage of the GAA is almost entirely positive, big difference

By and large if you don’t want trouble you won’t get it at an LOI game

College rugby scene no stranger to fighting either

You're fooling no one by pretending the crowds at LOI games have a comparable level of scum to the crowds at GAA and rugby games.

I know a waste of time when I see one (you're not going to budge on your opinion), so I'm dropping out of this conversation right now.

Bateman

OMM 0000 wrote: »

You're fooling no one by pretending the crowds at LOI games have a comparable level of scum to the crowds at GAA and rugby games.

I know a waste of time when I see one (you're not going to budge on your opinion), so I'm dropping out of this conversation right now.

The GAA club scene regularly sees pretty bad thuggery - I am of course talking about on the pitch rather than off the pitch, if you want to re-enter the discussion and talk about the impact that has on wider society versus 50 lads having a punch up on the street away from the ground

Bateman

Contributing to Irish football history and wider society. Big difference to switching on your remote or buying a jersey in Lifestyle

Bateman

Contributing to Irish football history and wider society. Big difference to switching on your remote or buying a jersey in Lifestyle

D14Rugby

OMM 0000 wrote: »

It's not though.

There are many differences, but here's a big one, and it's a big part of the reason LOI is not mainstream:

There are almost no scum at rugby games.

I can't say the same for LOI games.

Until this is fixed, you're wasting your time.

Oh there are scum at rugby games just a different more subtle kind.
There is very very little trouble at LOI games, I'd go as far as to say less than at EPL games.

D14Rugby

odyssey06 wrote: »

No it isn't, someone can't play for Tolka Rovers and Bohemians. How many players have simultaneously played for a LSL team AND a LOI team?
How many players have played for a club and country?
See the obvious difference?
How can a real fan have a deep local mystical connection to two teams? Real fans walk to games! Singing the club's song in close harmony, as the fans hear the song they walk out of their doors, swelling the ranks.

Well the leagues don't overlap much, there'd quite often be players that's play LOI until the season ends then play LSL for the winter.
The point is they can't meet each other in the league.

Genuine question did a LOI player or fan or something steal your bird at some point to make you so bitter towards it?

Greyfox

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

How anyone thinks its normal and makes you proud to follow an English team, it makes me sick. Support your own.

This kind of attitude puts people off going to LOI matches and creates a toxic environment. This kind of comment does a lot of damage to LOI football.

odyssey06

D14Rugby wrote: »

Well the leagues don't overlap much, there'd quite often be players that's play LOI until the season ends then play LSL for the winter.
The point is they can't meet each other in the league.
Genuine question did a LOI player or fan or something steal your bird at some point to make you so bitter towards it?

Hah

Some might consider it progress if they attracted players and fans that don't look like bouncers - joke, please don't take that seriously.

I don't mean to come across as bitter towards the LOI. I think they are in a tough position with GAA and rugby to compete with but the way to get more fans isn't to alienate fans of English clubs. If I'm bitter at anything it is that attitude. The way to get more fans is to talk up the experience of live football, not to denigrate potential fans.

Logically, splitting our resources across three sports doesn't make sense, but logic doesn't come into sport at that level I suppose.
So the deeper question really is why do Irish fans of team ball games split their sporting resources across GAA, soccer and rugby.
On the one hand, GAA is a uniquely Irish cultural and sporting phenomenon, so I wouldn't want to lose that but it doesn't get us to World Cups!
For a small country to try to compete globally at both soccer and rugby, and also have a distinctive national sport ... well something has to give. I'd vote for rugby myself, but I can also see the argument that an Irisg rugby team stands a much better chance at winning the main prizes in their sport.

Bonniedog

hetuzozaho wrote: »

But people grow up in communities where the local pub shows the Premier league and the Champions League, it's discussed in schools, on buses with strangers, waiting rooms, water coolers.

It is a big part of our communities now you'd have to agree?

In the same way as Coronation Street or Neighbours are part of the Community

odyssey06

Bonniedog wrote: »

In the same way as Coronation Street or Neighbours are part of the Community

If your favourite soap is Coronation Street, you must support a Manchester team.
If your favourite soap is Eastenders, you must support a London team.
If your favourite soap is Emmerdale, you must support a Yorkshire team.
If your favourite soap is Brookside, sorry, you've been relegated to non-league.

Bateman

odyssey06 wrote: »

. The way to get more fans is to talk up the experience of live football, not to denigrate potential

Bohs have nearly 1,000 more people coming than last season, and a lot of the new people are enjoying it for an hour or two every second Friday without feeling the need to become diehards. Main stand: Toilets passable (not great by any means), multiple food options and 3 bars.

All the things people think should be happening are happening. If your contribution to the debate is to cover your eyes with your hands and retain the view that all LOI fans are weirdos (well, that’s not entirely wrong), the football is ****e and the facilities are ****e, it’s your loss and a loss to Irish football

odyssey06

Bateman wrote: »

Bohs have nearly 1,000 more people coming than last season, and a lot of the new people are enjoying it for an hour or two every second Friday without feeling the need to become diehards. Main stand: Toilets passable (not great by any means), multiple food options and 3 bars.
All the things people think should be happening are happening. If your contribution to the debate is to cover your eyes with your hands and retain the view that all LOI fans are weirdos (well, that’s not entirely wrong), the football is ****e and the facilities are ****e, it’s your loss and a loss to Irish football

Confused.com... I don't think I said any or all of (a) LOI fans are all weirdos, (b) the football is always ****e or (c) the facilities are always ****e?
Or at least never implied that all of the above were true all of the time!

Bateman

Maybe not you personally but prevalent views

hetuzozaho

Bonniedog wrote: »

In the same way as Coronation Street or Neighbours are part of the Community

Of course - a lot of work, expertise and pride go into creating them too.
Sure it's all just something for us to pass some time while we are on this 'ol planet.

Bonniedog

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Of course - a lot of work, expertise and pride go into creating them too.
Sure it's all just something for us to pass some time while we are on this 'ol planet.

Indeed. But you can pass your time on the planet by other means than being a passive consumer.

If people want to watch cr@p then that is their prerogative. Absolutely.

hetuzozaho

Bonniedog wrote: »

Indeed. But you can pass your time on the planet by other means than being a passive consumer.

If people want to watch cr@p then that is their prerogative. Absolutely.

A lot of entertainment pastimes involve being a consumer though, sport / film events / music events etc. Obviously some people play sport / music / make movies etc. and yes time can be passed in that way too. It takes the passive and the active to make it all work I guess.

Something being "crap" is subjective I guess, some people find soccer to be "crap", the shock and horror of it all

gormdubhgorm

I see the word 'quality' being used an argument for those Irish fans who identify with Premier League England teams.

Why support the Republic of Ireland team?
Never-mind where you are from where is the quality?
There are plenty of teams that are better.
They are terrible entertainment.

EmmetSpiceland

D14Rugby wrote: »

Oh there are scum at rugby games just a different more subtle kind.
There is very very little trouble at LOI games, I'd go as far as to say less than at EPL games.

A more subtle kind? Like what, the kind who’d rob you with a pen or a spreadsheet?

If there is any “scum” at international, Pro14 or AIL rugby games they keep very quiet. I haven’t seen, or heard, of any hooliganism at a rugby match in nearly 30 years of going.

8-10

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I see the word 'quality' being used an argument for those Irish fans who identify with Premier League England teams.

Why support the Republic of Ireland team?
Never-mind where you are from where is the quality?
There are plenty of teams that are better.
They are terrible entertainment.

Thought that was a decent game actually

odyssey06

Bonniedog wrote: »

Indeed. But you can pass your time on the planet by other means than being a passive consumer.
If people want to watch cr@p then that is their prerogative. Absolutely.

You can't be active all the time, perfectly possible to look for both the passive and the active, and to appreciate both for what they are.
Plus, surely the worst kind of active consumer is a reality TV show voter!

odyssey06

8-10 wrote: »

Thought that was a decent game actually

Someone call the cops cos I think I just witnessed someone stealing a point!

hetuzozaho

odyssey06 wrote: »

Plus, surely the worst kind of active consumer is a reality TV show voter!

Haha yeah, or a Jeremy Kyle show audience member. A "real" fan though, away days and all

8-10

odyssey06 wrote: »

Someone call the cops cos I think I just witnessed someone stealing a point!

Nah we were in the game. They were better in the second half but panicked a bit in the final third.

I've seen us play much much worse than that

odyssey06

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

A more subtle kind? Like what, the kind who’d rob you with a pen or a spreadsheet?
If there is any “scum” at international, Pro14 or AIL rugby games they keep very quiet. I haven’t seen, or heard, of any hooliganism at a rugby match in nearly 30 years of going.

Maybe they mean the youth stuff...
https://www.thejournal.ie/senior-cup-fight-3824291-Jan2018/

Or just the players...
https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2019/0605/1053650-irfu-leinster-investigation/

Seems like you are OK in the stadium, just not so much afterwards.

[Deleted User]

Too busy posting about people supporting English teams to bother watching the Irish team play. You couldn't make it up!

gormdubhgorm

8-10 wrote: »

Nah we were in the game. They were better in the second half but panicked a bit in the final third.

I've seen us play much much worse than that

I can't disagree there.
Denmark will be raging though.

Plus I saw a fella with a Cork City jersey in the crowd - fair play to him.
The green jersey can double for Ireland support.