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Galway Ring Road- are there better ways to solve traffic?

Sam Russell

mod: Ok, I have moved the posts that were off topic on the M6 Galway ring road thread.

The guidelines for this thread are :

1. Discussion of ways to better serve the Galway traffic distribution.

2. No talk of VRT, Motor Tax, etc. They are not Galway specific.

3. Modal switch is OK if it avoids slagging off other types of traffic, and is relevant to Galway.

4. Suggestions of P&R locations if it would solve problems.

Usual rules apply - do not attack the poster, and be civil.

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cgcsb

markpb wrote: »

Is that a no?

You'll only get a, look over there, response. Mine was; 'but the greens backed the bank bailout'.

markpb

markpb wrote: »

So I assume you can't point me in the direction of an ubran road project that reduced traffic volumes then?

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Taking traffic that doesn't need to go anywhere near city centre out (bypassing Galway) frees up the city to dig up the roads for whatever fantastical schemes are currently in fashion up to and including pedestrianisation.

Is that a no?

what_traffic

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Galway can't wait 8 to 10 years for a ring road.

Exactly.
What have City Council done in the last 5 years since this Ring Road was first mooted?
Galway Transportation Study has been around since 2015 - practically nothing done with that yet.

Ashleigh1986

Xckjoo..... Thank god us locals know some roads that you can take to try and get around some of the traffic.
But the first time visitors to galway are signposted a certain way to get into our city and from there to salthill.

This city quickly needs to get its finger out and it's going to take out of the box thinking to get it sorted.
Galway can't wait 8 to 10 years for a ring road.

xckjoo

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Give me that than this nonsense stuck in traffic and not moving and the stress that causes .

It does do weird things to your head. Used to arrive home far more stressed before I gave up on driving to work. I'm just lucky enough to have the option.

cgcsb

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Reduced space would mean a blanket ban in reality,

No it wouldn't

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

especially since there is still no cross city routes nor Park and ride at strategic locations connected to buses.

If we're going to invest in the bus network, logically P and R and a re-organisation of the routes is on the cards. That's like not buying a house because the tables and chairs are in a less than ideal location. Changing bus routes around can be achieved for almost no costs, the bypass will cost €600m and worsen traffic in the long term.

Ashleigh1986

You can put bus lanes in galway city.
You could put one on Lough atalia going all the way from traffic lights at bottom of college road and up galmont hotel hill.
You could put one college road outbound.
You could put one inbound bohermore.
You could put one outbound from courthouse to tesco lights .
But to do this you would have to make these roads one way.
Please let nobody respond by saying it would mean drivers would have to be driving longer distances around galway .
Give me that than this nonsense stuck in traffic and not moving and the stress that causes .

xckjoo

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

It is quite disingenuous to point at cost of this, most of the cost is due to trying to be good to the environment. I am sure let's say Chinese could build this for a 10th of price but that would suck for environment and people of Galway.

Pointless statement. If we shot half the population we wouldn't have any traffic issues. Do you want to volunteer to go first?

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

If you actually lived and worked in Galway then you wouldn't be asking such silly questions

I work and live in Galway and take the bus or cycle to work daily. Never take the car for the commute. BUT my route is probably the best served bus route in the city so never have more than about 15mins to wait for the bus and it's only marginally slower than driving. If there was more bus lanes it would be faster than driving and be even more attractive.

cgcsb

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

It is quite disingenuous to point at cost of this, most of the cost is due to trying to be good to the environment.

:pac: right, ya, so the projected increase in car use as a direct result of this road being in place is good for the environment?

Ruhanna

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

And we can't have proper bus lanes without either taking cars out of city or more extremely knocking down whole rows of buildings bordering narrow streets.
To accomplish one goal the other is needed as prerequisite.

It's not. There is no logic or sense to this proposition.

Taking "cars" out of the city is not an abstract concept. Cars have drivers. Some cars (a minority) even have passengers.

Take the cars out and you also take out potential bus passengers.

If commuters can drive across the city in less than ten minutes, who will take the buses?

Are you seriously expecting us to believe that a cross-town motorway will achieve two things simultaneously: (1) make car commuting easier, and (2) make public transport work better so that the people who are now commuting more easily by car will suddenly find that taking the bus is even more attractive than using the motorway that was built to make driving easier?

Like, seriously???

cgcsb

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

And we can't have proper bus lanes without either taking cars out of city or more extremely knocking down whole rows of buildings bordering narrow streets.
To accomplish one goal the other is needed as prerequisite.

Not true though, 4 or 5 good quality bus corridors would mean reduced space for cars, not a blanket ban.

xckjoo

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Sure why not, can you guarantee that it can be done in 3 quiet summer months? Aside the fact that there is corellation between schools and traffic shows a need for school buses first.

Can you guarantee that a new road would fix the traffic issues in Galway? The experts can't. Can't even say it's likely to.

School buses are a good idea, but there's little point before we have proper bus lanes.

Ruhanna

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Why do you keep framing this as one vs other choice? We can have both and eventually will.

We can't and we won't.

Build a cross-town motorway and you can kiss goodbye to any hope of modal switch for another generation.

That's not speculation either. It's in the plan. If you can find any actual targets or projections (not aspirations) for modal switch from car commuting to public transport, post them here.

Ruhanna

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Galway needs a bypass, building one will help towards accomplishing your goal of public transport etc.

Firstly, it's not a "bypass". It's a new ring road for car commuters, as described by the engineers running the project (Arup). Only a small fraction of car traffic in Galway is bypassing the city entirely. The vast majority of traffic originating in both the city and the county is heading into Galway City, not away from it.

Secondly, it will not "accomplish the goal of public transport". That is a meaningless statement. Nowhere in the plans (as opposed to the promotional materials) are there targets for modal switch to public transport (or cycling or walking).

The purpose of the proposed road is to make car commuting across the city easier. Anyone who believes that building a motorway designed to make driving easier will prompt thousands of commuters to leave their cars and take the bus instead is either deluded or a liar. It's like claiming that installing a new speedy lift in your multi-storey office block will suddenly make the resident workers very keen on taking the stairs, when they never bothered to do so before. Pull the other one.

cgcsb

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

You literally proclaimed that there is nothing more important than saving the planet farther up on thread,

Which has nothing got to do with the Ireland Green party of the bank bailout :pac:

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

which I actually agree with.

lol, right, we'll start saving the plannet after this motorway, right?

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

However blind ideology won't get you there nor will living in a cave. Pragmatism and realism will. Galway needs a bypass, building one will help towards accomplishing your goal of public transport etc.

Nobody really believes that.

cgcsb

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Environmentalists going on about waste of resources when they are responsible for sadling me and my children with debt for decades to come.

Hypocrite

The Green party aren't environmentalists, they are politicians :pac:

Your post has nothing to do with this topic though.

hans aus dtschl

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Sure why not, can you guarantee that it can be done in 3 quiet summer months?

Yes I think so. Not an entire plan by any means, obviously, but certainly first phases. Ideally enough to analyse any bottlenecks before any following phases.

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Aside the fact that there is corellation between schools and traffic shows a need for school buses first.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here.
I think school buses are only subsidised for journeys over a set distance. I don't think school buses are useful (maybe not even used?) for short distances. The schools traffic you'd ideally convert would be those dropping children distances of less than 1-2km. Temporary drop-off exclusion zones MIGHT be a solution to this, that could be tried one day a week even right away. Again, not sure if I'm addressing your point here.

hans aus dtschl

cgcsb wrote: »

It has to end somewhere.

Or start somewhere, as it were.

The reason Dublin's getting such high numbers using sustainable modes now is because of the total failure of cars. The ring road didn't solve traffic. It didn't work. It doesn't work.

In Cork it's exactly the same.

Regarding Galway I don't have a horse in this race: I don't live there. But I also don't believe that the Ring Road is the solution to the traffic issues. It might be a part of the solution, but not all on its own, from what I can see. And though the ring road will need completion to see gains (full expenditure) a sustainable transport plan can be realised incrementally piecemeal.

cgcsb

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Like that time greens aided fianna fail with 60+ billion aid to banks?

What is the actual point of this post?

cgcsb

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Why do you keep framing this as one vs other choice? We can have both and eventually will.

Because, with good sustainable transport, the massive expenditure on the road is a waste of resources, better spent on sustainable transport elsewhere, it's counter productive to sustainable development and will ultimately worsen traffic in other locations.

Also because I know and you know that if the road goes ahead, that'll be all folks for any improvement in public transport for decades until the new bypass gets full and pressure for a new bypass starts to build. It has to end somewhere.

hans aus dtschl

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Sure make a plan for whenever bypass is built for whatever greenwash makes you feel best about yourself while typing on a computer made from rare elements from all over world.

I've always only addressed your points/arguments.
I have no interest in getting into a slagging match of some kind.

Either you have a counter-argument or you don't.

Again, my agenda is quite simple: I believe that a/the sustainable transport plan for Galway should be acted upon right now, without waiting for a Ring Road start date.
Even just ATTEMPTING things during the low-congestion periods. I'm not in favour of greenwashing to feel good about myself.

cgcsb

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

You obviously never cycled or took a bus in Galway

Yes and both are crap and need to be improved. Half the bypass money, 300mil would make Galway a sustainable transport Mecca.

cgcsb

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

He must be sponsored by Dawes Bicycles, this boy....

You must be sponsored by an oil conglomerate. You see how leveling accusations at each other is non-productive.

hans aus dtschl

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

So, I suppose we should also just close the N59, as apparantly no-one goes or lives up that direction?

Jesus wept....

Not sure if you're asking me, but I've no idea about closing roads. That's not on my agenda at all.

I'm only baffled at why Galway's Council (just like Cork's Councils) don't put more effort into sustainable transport corridors now. That's my only agenda tbh. It's always a case of "after the next project...." and "after the cars are flowing smoothly". It's a plan to fail, really, there's zero chance of modal shift.

cgcsb

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

So, I suppose we should also just close the N59, as apparantly no-one goes or lives up that direction?

Jesus wept....

Actually curious who you are responding to here? who claimed that?

cgcsb

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

It must be imaginary traffic and people not going anywhere every day.

Nope, short commuter trips within the urban area that should be mostly replaced by bus and bike trips

BelfastVanMan

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

cgcsb wrote: »

A completely false comparison, Galway City is on the edge of Ireland, west of it is sparsely populated Conemara, and then nothing until you get to Newfoundland. The bypass connects the rest of Ireland to nowhere essentially, The Netherlands has 20 million people in an area the size of Munster. You can't compare Galway to Amsterdam, if you are going to make a Dutch comparison, try Leeuwarden, 122,000 people, not really on the way to anywhere. It has an inner reliefe road with signal junctions, sort of like Galway's set up. Bike and bus are king in Leeuwarden.

It must be imaginary traffic and people not going anywhere every day.

He must be sponsored by Dawes Bicycles, this boy....

BelfastVanMan

So, I suppose we should also just close the N59, as apparantly no-one goes or lives up that direction?

Jesus wept....

hans aus dtschl

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

It must be imaginary traffic and people not going anywhere every day.

It's mostly people doing 5km journeys, according to the stats.

Just like here in Cork btw.

hans aus dtschl

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Sure why not.

OK, and what will use the road on that day? Bicycles? Buses?

Bear in mind at this theoretical date, an expanded bus fleet hasn't been bought and the bike lanes aren't laid down...alternative traffic flows for all adjoining roads and neighbourhoods haven't been laid out...what's the plan? Just close the bridges and wing it?

Or is some kind of sustainable transport plan needed? Is something specific else needed, to encourage people to leave the car at home?