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Galway Ring Road- are there better ways to solve traffic?

Sam Russell

mod: Ok, I have moved the posts that were off topic on the M6 Galway ring road thread.

The guidelines for this thread are :

1. Discussion of ways to better serve the Galway traffic distribution.

2. No talk of VRT, Motor Tax, etc. They are not Galway specific.

3. Modal switch is OK if it avoids slagging off other types of traffic, and is relevant to Galway.

4. Suggestions of P&R locations if it would solve problems.

Usual rules apply - do not attack the poster, and be civil.

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[Deleted User]

Some data to digest

24,000 people commute to and from Galway city every day

https://galwaydaily.com/news/24000-people-commute-to-and-from-galway-city-every-day/

Some caveats

1. It's Vodafone users only
2. It's 4g users only
3. It doesn't factor in mode of transport

The pdf file linked below gives the network figures for 2016 (newest I could find) so from those it's possible to extrapolate a more realistic figure. I just don't have time to try calculate it so someone else might have a go

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.comreg.ie/media/dlm_uploads/2017/03/ComReg-1715r.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj7rPGt-Z3iAhV7VBUIHajWCFEQFjALegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1E72tqOhJ0gSBaz83qKllP

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

Some caveats

1. It's Vodafone users only
2. It's 4g users only
3. It doesn't factor in mode of transport

That 24,000 figure looks accurate as an overall figure - doubt its Vodafone users only?

[Deleted User]

If you build it, they will come......

It being a decent bus service

https://galwaydaily.com/news/bus-eireann-passenger-numbera-jump-13-percent-in-galway-city/

Carol25

With the local elections on today, I hope anyone who met canvassers over the past few weeks made their opinions known re Galway’s current state of traffic&transport and possible solutions that people moot on here on a continuous basis. The time is now for a lot of the public transport solutions, followed by a badly needed outer ring road ASAP.

Limerick74

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/connemarras-first-green-councillor-stop-600m-galway-ring-road-927357.html

Lord Glentoran

When it opens it needs Michael Ring to open it.

what_traffic

Limerick74 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/connemarras-first-green-councillor-stop-600m-galway-ring-road-927357.html

Interesting that Connemara’s first Green Party councillor Alastair McKinstry believes the Government should abandon the €600m ring road project but Green Party Pauline Martin in Galway City West Ward is not calling for the same?

veryangryman

Road being discussed on Pat Kenny Newstalk atm

prunudo

veryangryman wrote: »

Road being discussed on Pat Kenny Newstalk atm

Was listening, he also had a woman on against the Phoenix Park redevelopment. There really is a lot of people in this country who don't want any development or improvements to anything.

As I've said before, these anti road people seem to forget that buses (public transport) and trucks (supply of goods to shops) need roads too. We simply can't stop building roads because all of a sudden saving the planet is the hot topic.

cgcsb

jvan wrote: »

As I've said before, these anti road people seem to forget that buses (public transport) and trucks (supply of goods to shops) need roads too.

Lots of existing road space to meet all our sustainable transport needs, only problem is it's full of cars. The proposed road will not offer any bus lanes afaik.

jvan wrote: »

We simply can't stop building roads because all of a sudden saving the planet is the hot topic.

Well with a comment like that, you obviously don't want to be taken seriously. Saving the planet is surely the primary topic, we only have one of them afterall.

prunudo

Whether you want to take me seriously or not doesn't bother me. Anti road protesters use climate change as the default excuse for every objection without acknowledging that electric vehicles are being touting as the future too. All the while failing to realise that electric vehicles travel on roads too.

xckjoo

jvan wrote: »

Whether you want to take me seriously or not doesn't bother me. Anti road protesters use climate change as the default excuse for every objection without acknowledging that electric vehicles are being touting as the future too. All the while failing to realise that electric vehicles travel on roads too.

The point isn't "anti road". It's that proposed road is expensive, wasteful and, according to the research, not going to improve things. Dismissing everyone against the bypass as being "anti road" and having some kind of alternative agenda is completely missing the point.

Sam Russell

The new bypass is not going to be finished for at least six years. In the meantime the traffic will be getting worse. So what interim measures are being taken? Any bus lanes or cycle lanes being proposed?

cgcsb

jvan wrote: »

Whether you want to take me seriously or not doesn't bother me. Anti road protesters use climate change as the default excuse for every objection without acknowledging that electric vehicles are being touting as the future too. All the while failing to realise that electric vehicles travel on roads too.

Electric vehicles are a small part of the solution. The bulk of the solution is that more and more people will live in cities, commute distances will drop significantly, walking cycling and improved public transport will move most. Electric cars will be an option for those awkward journeys that haven't any alternative modes available.

Electric cars in themselves are inefficient, the energy spent to push a single person around in a big metal box weighing several times their body weight is fundamentally inefficient. They're just a better alternative to diesel in terms of efficiency and sustainability.

marno21

Sam Russell wrote: »

The new bypass is not going to be finished for at least six years. In the meantime the traffic will be getting worse. So what interim measures are being taken? Any bus lanes or cycle lanes being proposed?

Public consultation on BusConnects Galway is expected soon (it was scheduled for a September but no sign of it yet).

youngrun

Sam Russell wrote: »

The new bypass is not going to be finished for at least six years. In the meantime the traffic will be getting worse. So what interim measures are being taken? Any bus lanes or cycle lanes being proposed?

There is a Galway Transport strategy
And great plans
But the powers that be seem intent on waiting on the road to be built before implementing

cgcsb

If they brought in BusConnects first the business case for the ring road would evaporate, can't have that.

Carol25

cgcsb wrote: »

If they brought in BusConnects first the business case for the ring road would evaporate, can't have that.

Here we go again round and round the roundabout. Same argument, different day ...of course bus connects wouldn’t solve the problem. But that would be common sense. You’re always trying to get people going without any regard for other people’s views and the current situation as it is right now in Galway City. I would advise people to try and ignore your posts as they’re counterproductive to finding feasible solutions to the current situation.

xckjoo

Carol25 wrote: »

Here we go again round and round the roundabout. Same argument, different day ...of course bus connects wouldn’t solve the problem. But that would be common sense. You’re always trying to get people going without any regard for other people’s views and the current situation as it is right now in Galway City. I would advise people to try and ignore your posts as they’re counterproductive to finding feasible solutions to the current situation.

Except his point is that all the information is pointing towards the new road not improving things while all you can offer is emotive attacks on any person that doesn't agree with you. Can you offer a shred of evidence that it would improve things beyond "common sense"?

cgcsb

Carol25 wrote: »

Here we go again round and round the roundabout. Same argument, different day ...of course bus connects wouldn’t solve the problem. But that would be common sense. You’re always trying to get people going without any regard for other people’s views and the current situation as it is right now in Galway City. I would advise people to try and ignore your posts as they’re counterproductive to finding feasible solutions to the current situation.

If you think bus connects is counter productive, then that says more about your opinions than anything else. I have regard for your views Carol, which is why I and other posters thoroughly rebuffed them in the past.

cgcsb

xckjoo wrote: »

Except his point is that all the information is pointing towards the new road not improving things while all you can offer is emotive attacks on any person that doesn't agree with you. Can you offer a shred of evidence that it would improve things beyond "common sense"?

We've been over this though, Carol can't back up any of her opinions with any observable facts, then accuses people who don't agree with her of trolling.

?Cee?view

Carol25 wrote: »

I would advise people to try and ignore your posts as they’re counterproductive to finding feasible solutions to the current situation.

Thankfully Carol25, most people do so I wouldn't worry. There's an echo chamber effect here, whereas in the real world, the project is broadly supported and is progressing.

cgcsb

?Cee?view wrote: »

Thankfully Carol25, most people do so I wouldn't worry. There's an echo chamber effect here, whereas in the real world, the project is broadly supported and is progressing.

The number of objections to ABP on this one is said to be eye watering and there is no compelling CBA for it, ultimately you can't CPO anything without compelling social need, so yeah the project is very much in doubt.

Carol25

xckjoo wrote: »

Except his point is that all the information is pointing towards the new road not improving things while all you can offer is emotive attacks on any person that doesn't agree with you. Can you offer a shred of evidence that it would improve things beyond "common sense"?

Yourself and cgsb cannot wait to fill up the thread after my post which is exactly my point. If you’re truly taking part in a debate on this thread, you should’ve looked back through it to see my views and arguments. But you’re not and neither is he, which is why I won’t be engaging with your type anymore. You’re just trolling the debate continuously with confrontational posts and no feasible solutions. As I’ve said previously, I don’t think moderators are stopping this type of behaviour on this thread enough.

xckjoo

Carol25 wrote: »

Yourself and cgsb cannot wait to fill up the thread after my post which is exactly my point. If you’re truly taking part in a debate on this thread, you should’ve looked back through it to see my views and arguments. But you’re not and neither is he, which is why I won’t be engaging with your type anymore. You’re just trolling the debate continuously with confrontational posts and no feasible solutions. As I’ve said previously, I don’t think moderators are stopping this type of behaviour on this thread enough.

I've asked you to back up a single claim you've made with some evidence. That's not trolling. It's the essence of debate. I haven't posted too much in the way of solutions because they've continously been posted by others so no point in retreading same ground. Solutions that are not only feasible but better, easier, cheaper and timelier to implement. Time wise you just happened to post when I was having a browser of boards before finishing work.

serfboard

cgcsb wrote: »

The number of objections to ABP on this one is said to be eye watering and there is no compelling CBA for it, ultimately you can't CPO anything without compelling social need, so yeah the project is very much in doubt.

Add to that the number of legal actions which will be taken by those whose houses are scheduled for CPO/demolition, and I think we could be talking about a decade - if ever.

Meanwhile there seems to be no movement on the items which might improve traffic flow (getting rid of the roundabouts at Menlo and the hospital), the Tuam Road bus lane project seems dead and there is absolutely nothing being said about the provision of Park n' Rides on the city's outskirts, as well as the Bus Connects project being put on the long finger.

The traffic misery in Galway seems set to continue ...

SeanW

what_traffic wrote: »

Interesting that Connemara’s first Green Party councillor Alastair McKinstry believes the Government should abandon the €600m ring road project but Green Party Pauline Martin in Galway City West Ward is not calling for the same?

One has to wonder why a sane person from Connemara would oppose the bypass. Do they like having to spend ages meandering through Galway city streets to get to/from just about anywhere else in the country?

As to the other Greenie weenie, I thought she was fairly clear. From the article:

However, one of two new Green Party councillors elected to Galway city, Pauline O’Reilly, has stopped short of calling for abandonment of the ring road, while saying her party’s policy is that the State “does not need to build more roads”.

Emphasis mine. No more roads - seems fairly clear to me! :eek:

serfboard

SeanW wrote: »

One has to wonder why a sane person from Connemara would oppose the bypass. Do they like having to spend ages meandering through Galway city streets to get to/from just about anywhere else in the country?

He's a physicist from NUIG, so presumably he's well used to going to conferences and meetings outside Galway and abroad. He must then be well used to having to share his journey with commuter traffic whenever he goes to Shannon or Dublin Airports, for example.

Mustn't be a problem for him.

The city-based Green poltician is more pragmatic - acknowledging that her party policy is no more roads, but recognising that opposing the bypass in Galway is political suicide.

You could state her policy as: "No more roads - after this one!".

McGiver

cgcsb wrote:

The bulk of the solution is that more and more people will live in cities, commute distances will drop significantly, walking cycling and improved public transport will move most.

This had already happened elsewhere in Europe decade(s) ago. Just that Ireland is roughly 25 years behind and West of Ireland possibly even more. Combine that with low population density, extremely low in the county, low even in the "City", as well as generally rural mindset ("we don't need them trams and buses") and what you see is the result. There is no quick fix possible.

Galway City is catching up in development but public transport, pedestrianisation, cycling infrastructure, livability are not improving much and the mindset issue is probably a bigger obstacle than anything else, because it influences local politics and hence prioritisation and in the end the actual development of the city.

what_traffic

youngrun wrote: »

There is a Galway Transport strategy
And great plans
But the powers that be seem intent on waiting on the road to be built before implementing

Its part of the strategy.

How many meters of bus lanes constructed in Galway City in the last 5 years?
-10meters

Exact same thing happened for the REAL Outer Bypass back in the 00's
Council wanted to build DUAL Carraigeway through Westside. Cllrs got them to change to Bus Lanes. Planning permission given from ABP in 2003 for SQR/BOD in the Westside to put in Bus Lanes, 7 years later they got around to starting it - once the the Outer Bypass was a dead project.