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Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

dowlingm

So there's been quite a bit of discussion of greenways on threads like Western Rail Corridor (Train & Rail Systems) and I was thinking it might be useful to have a thread which pulls together both technical discussion (for example how greenways can co-exist with adjacent roadways or railways) and news (expansions of existing greenways / announcements of new ones)

According to the Connaught Tribune there are moves on getting on Galway-Clifden along the old rail line alignment. Is there anything else starting to reach firm proposals as opposed to discussion?

MOD EDIT: Fantastic Greenway map of Ireland by riddlinrussell here: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1HAHB3jpXV7qgrTHgopH4Zl7-ItDHGEPv&ll=53.4320326010536%2C-8.939188105408448&z=7

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MJohnston

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

No just opposed to the “tarmac everything” mentality.

The environmental concerns of having a decent greenway surface are outweighed by the environmental benefits of getting people out of cars and onto their feet or bikes.

In the case of completely abandoned canals like the Ulster Canal, a greenway will probably also have a positive effect on the accessibility of the canal itself.

Lord Glentoran

MJohnston wrote: »

The environmental concerns of having a decent greenway surface are outweighed by the environmental benefits of getting people out of cars and onto their feet or bikes.

In the case of completely abandoned canals like the Ulster Canal, a greenway will probably also have a positive effect on the accessibility of the canal itself.

The opposite has been argued successfully with ABP here:

http://savethebarrowline.com/news/default.html

How sterilising one of the few accessible natural paths left is considered a good thing beats me, but only makes sense in the context of the needs of cycling being valued above all other users.

riddlinrussell

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

The opposite has been argued successfully with ABP here:

http://savethebarrowline.com/news/default.html

How sterilising one of the few accessible natural paths left is considered a good thing beats me, but only makes sense in the context of the needs of cycling being valued above all other users.

A poor case to use, the section of the barrow line denied permission is the section that is river navigation, and rivers are an entirely different environmental kettle of fish.

The canal network of Ireland, while nowhere near as extensive as the UK network, has great potential for tourism, Shannon-Erne being rebuilt in the 2000s is a good example, unfortunately practical considerations would mean the same amount of work to upgrade the Ulster canal, it's way too narrow and doesn't have a good feeder lake

Tigerandahalf

Those canals have great potential.
The suir blueway recently launched their offering and it looks very appealing - cycle, walk, run or kayak/canoe. You are appealing to a wider audience and peolple will stay longer.

If you link the greenways upto those canals you have a new supply of people to entice onto the canal network.

Suir Blueway
https://www.tipperary.com/suirblueway

Del.Monte

A bit off topic, but the canals in the Greater Dublin Area need sorting out from a safety/security point of view - I've travelled on UK canals in inner city areas and never seen anything remotely as unsafe as places like Broombridge etc. Dublin's the hub of the canal system and it's almost a no-go area. A few canal narrowboat hire companies wouldn't go amiss either.

MJohnston

Del.Monte wrote: »

A bit off topic, but the canals in the Greater Dublin Area need sorting out from a safety/security point of view - I've travelled on UK canals in inner city areas and never seen anything remotely as unsafe as places like Broombridge etc. Dublin's the hub of the canal system and it's almost a no-go area. A few canal narrowboat hire companies wouldn't go amiss either.

Finishing off the Royal Canal Greenway should improve any dodgy areas, although Broom bridge is miles better since the Luas opened.

hans aus dtschl

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

No just opposed to the “tarmac everything” mentality.

They're putting down tar?

That sounds great: most of the other greenways in the country have crushed bitumen! Where'd you get this detail from?

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

How sterilising one of the few accessible natural paths left is considered a good thing beats me

Wait, it's a natural canal??? Most of the other ones I've seen have been man-made.

grimbergen

If you were to recommend a greenway for a family to do this summer, what would you recommend? I've done the great western.

Waterford looks great or the west limerick one perhaps?

hans aus dtschl

grimbergen wrote: »

If you were to recommend a greenway for a family to do this summer, what would you recommend? I've done the great western.

Waterford looks great or the west limerick one perhaps?

The Waterford one is fantastic. I would recommend it. I felt it was almost an evolution of the Great Western.
I haven't done Limerick.

[Deleted User]

Fingal County Council has plans for a 32km greenway to link up Donabate, Rush,
Loughshinny, Skerries and Balbriggan.

https://m.herald.ie/news/coastal-walkway-plans-will-show-off-stunning-sights-38162638.html

Tigerandahalf

grimbergen wrote: »

If you were to recommend a greenway for a family to do this summer, what would you recommend? I've done the great western.

Waterford looks great or the west limerick one perhaps?

Waterford is lovely. The different cafes, pubs/restaurants on route are great. The Limerick one would be much quieter and wouldn't have as much facilities on it. It goes from Abbeyfeale to Rathkeale. They are presently doing works at Barnagh bridge where there is a fabulous look out over the Golden Vale - Limerick/Tipp. I don't know what the bike rental situation is though. There are hopes it will be extended from Abbeyfeale into Listowel.

All these greenways have facebook pages. Very handy to follow as lots of info and photos on them.

riddlinrussell

Completed the Waterford Greenway and Carrick-on-Suir/Clonmel Blueway over the weekend gone. Both amazing routes, great scenery etc. But the difference in quality was very apparent.

Waterford was absolutely excellent surface for the entire length, wide enough along its entire length (barring Kilmeaden station) to easily accommodate the passing of pedestrians and other cyclists with no conflicts.

The Blueway surface was good for the most part but quality changed abruptly along the route and the section near Carrick was very poorly maintained concrete. Much narrower so more potential for conflict, although in most places two cyclists could pass one another with reasonable care, obviously I wouldn't expect the path to be as wide as it is in Waterford given the more environmentally sensitive nature of the river, but would be good to see it achieve a consistent width and quality for the entire length. There looked to be works ongoing so hopefully time will show improvement in what is a really fantastic route.

As a side note I was also in WIcklow town last week and was amazed by the quality of roadside cycleway around the town, currently in the process of adding it to the maps, but the outskirts of the town at least are extremely well catered for (for Ireland).

spacetweek

riddlinrussell wrote: »

As a side note I was also in WIcklow town last week and was amazed by the quality of roadside cycleway around the town, currently in the process of adding it to the maps, but the outskirts of the town at least are extremely well catered for (for Ireland).

The new port access road is like that alright. The rest maybe not as much.
Also it looks like the new road has issues with people walking on the bike lanes!

Heartbreak Hank

Liffey cycle route public consultation closes tomorrow:

https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/liffey-cycle-route/

Last Stop

So was looking at the map and had a brainwave. Obviously the Waterford greenway has been hugely successful so what if it was possible to cycle from Dublin all the way to Dungarvan via greenway?
This would be broken into several projects naturally
- Waterford to New Ross via old railway
- New Ross to Kilkenny via River Nore
- Kilkenny to PortLaoise via old railway
- PortLaoise to Mountmellick via old railway
- Mountmellick to Portarlington via old canal
- Portarlington to Monastrevin via old canal
- Monastrevin to Robertstown via Athy branch
- Roberttown to Grand Cana Dock via Grand Canal
But in theory this is doable relatively easily and would be a huge boost to rural economies.

spacetweek

Nice idea. The part using the Grand Canal should be done at the very least to connect with the part in and near Dublin that’s already been done.

riddlinrussell

Last Stop wrote: »

So was looking at the map and had a brainwave. Obviously the Waterford greenway has been hugely successful so what if it was possible to cycle from Dublin all the way to Dungarvan via greenway?
This would be broken into several projects naturally
- Waterford to New Ross via old railway
- New Ross to Kilkenny via River Nore
- Kilkenny to PortLaoise via old railway
- PortLaoise to Mountmellick via old railway
- Mountmellick to Portarlington via old canal
- Portarlington to Monastrevin via old canal
- Monastrevin to Robertstown via Athy branch
- Roberttown to Grand Cana Dock via Grand Canal
But in theory this is doable relatively easily and would be a huge boost to rural economies.

To address this idea in detail:
Waterford-New Ross - currently in planning/part 8 has gone out

New Ross-Kilkenny - via the Nore would probably be a nightmare to get done from an ecological viewpoint, is there a pre existing path along it?

Much more feasible to go up the New Ross-Mhuine Bheag line, from there either along the Barrow Line (Plenty of Controversy there) or an "Active rail route" up to Carlow area, then link in to the 'Barrow Line' when it reaches the Canal sections.

From there to Monasterevin and onwards to Robertstown currently has part 8 planning, dont know where exactly this is in progress.

Grand Canal has part 8 throughout the entire county of Kildare, with plans to have the greenway there substantially complete by 2021, once done there would be a short section (Which I think also has part 8?) In dublin to link it in to the completed section of the greenway at Adamstown. Obviously some work still needed in Dublin itself to get all the way to GCD on something that could fully be classed as 'greenway/cycleway' for its entire length.

EDIT: Further Info
If 'live railway' greenways ever become a thing (they exist in other countries) you could link Kilkenny to Mhuine Bheag to get back to your suggested route while avoiding the Nore.

- Kilkenny to PortLaoise via old railway - Haven't seen any plans for this, with Kilkenny CC involved in the Waterford/New Ross route hopefully they get the greenway bug and want one that will have a more direct impact on their own tourism.
- PortLaoise to Mountmellick via old railway - No plans afoot in Mountmellick or Portlaoise LAP to 2024 (Apart from some riverside greenways)
- Mountmellick to Portarlington via old canal - Same as Above, No plans afoot in Mountmellick or Portarlington LAP to 2024 (Apart from some riverside greenways)
- Portarlington to Monastrevin via old canal - - Same as Above, No plans afoot in Portlaoise LAP to 2024

So it looks like Laois is behind the times on local greenways, I don't think they have been particularly active on the Grand Canal route either, although I think it at least has part 8 in the county.

specialbyte

Fingal CoCo have submitted a planning application for the Broadmeadow Greenway to An Bord Pleanala. It will go from Malahide Demesne to the Donabate Demesne. It will cross over the estuary on the shoulder of the existing rail causeway and on a new parallel bridge. Full planning application here: https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/broadmeadow-way

nilhg

riddlinrussell wrote: »

snip

- PortLaoise to Mountmellick via old railway - No plans afoot in Mountmellick or Portlaoise LAP to 2024 (Apart from some riverside greenways)
- Mountmellick to Portarlington via old canal - Same as Above, No plans afoot in Mountmellick or Portarlington LAP to 2024 (Apart from some riverside greenways)
- Portarlington to Monastrevin via old canal - - Same as Above, No plans afoot in Portlaoise LAP to 2024

So it looks like Laois is behind the times on local greenways, I don't think they have been particularly active on the Grand Canal route either, although I think it at least has part 8 in the county.

Very little of the Monasterevin to Mountmellick canal spur still exists, it's mostly gone back into the countryside, the easiest part of it to identify now is canal road to the south of Portarlington where it was filled in and the space used for the construction of a relief road.

Also just to clarify about the blueway project on the barrow spur of the grand canal to Athy, the planning permission was applied for in the name of Waterways Ireland so technically not a Part 8 I think. As described at a local meeting here recently WI are considering their position on whether to go ahead with the canal section of the Barrow Blueway, if they do go ahead (the local feeling is that they will) they'll be applying for funding from the next tranche of funding released from central government.

riddlinrussell

nilhg wrote: »

Very little of the Monasterevin to Mountmellick canal spur still exists, it's mostly gone back into the countryside, the easiest part of it to identify now is canal road to the south of Portarlington where it was filled in and the space used for the construction of a relief road.

Also just to clarify about the blueway project on the barrow spur of the grand canal to Athy, the planning permission was applied for in the name of Waterways Ireland so technically not a Part 8 I think. As described at a local meeting here recently WI are considering their position on whether to go ahead with the canal section of the Barrow Blueway, if they do go ahead (the local feeling is that they will) they'll be applying for funding from the next tranche of funding released from central government.

Thanks for that! I think its interesting how the planning is working for some of these, the Plans I've seen for the Grand canal are definitely Part 8 in Kildare, but both it and the barrow line would fall under the remit of Waterways Ireland so I'm not sure why and how they differ.

Regarding the Old Canal Route, its still fairly apparent for the most part on Satellite view, apart from obvious slam dunk routes like active/lightly disused canals and relatively recently abandoned railways most of the routes suggested in my map basically offer a 'route of least resistance' for potential future routes, they tend to have a few 'problem spots' where someone has build directly on the old route, but in the main are still mostly clear of encroachment. They would also have a double attraction in that the history of the route can be built in as a heritage/tourist feature, and there will already be established, although often in need of repair/replacement bridges/cuttings/general infrastructure that can be leveraged for the route.

Jayuu

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Completed the Waterford Greenway and ...the section near Carrick was very poorly maintained concrete...

That's because that section from Carrick to the Glanbia factory at Miloko has been there for years, long before we ever thought of the idea of Green/Blueways.

Tigerandahalf

Will the Great Southern Trail eventually link up with Tralee via Listowel?
Did the old railway go from Listowel to Tralee?
Also is there a spur from Listowel to Ballybunion?

What are the crossings on the GST like? Lots of gates or cattle grids?

From photos it looks a nice route for a run with country lanes.

Also I see on the linked map on page 1 that a Foynes Limerick section is a possibility. What infrastructure would be used - old rail line or quiet country road?

Thanks

Sam Russell

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Will the Great Southern Trail eventually link up with Tralee via Listowel?
Did the old railway go from Listowel to Tralee?
Also is there a spur from Listowel to Ballybunion?

What are the crossings on the GST like? Lots of gates or cattle grids?

From photos it looks a nice route for a run with country lanes.

Also I see on the linked map on page 1 that a Foynes Limerick section is a possibility. What infrastructure would be used - old rail line or quiet country road?

Thanks

Listowel to Balybunnion wa a Lartigue monorail = the only one in the woeld. It opened in 1888 and closed in 1923. Its route was mainly along the road, so no disused route.

http://www.lartiguemonorail.com/history.php

Del.Monte

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Will the Great Southern Trail eventually link up with Tralee via Listowel?
Did the old railway go from Listowel to Tralee?
Also is there a spur from Listowel to Ballybunion?

What are the crossings on the GST like? Lots of gates or cattle grids?

From photos it looks a nice route for a run with country lanes.

Also I see on the linked map on page 1 that a Foynes Limerick section is a possibility. What infrastructure would be used - old rail line or quiet country road?

Thanks

Closed October 1924 because the Great Southern Railway wasn't interested in such a freak show becoming part of their new undertaking. The standard gauge railway continued from Listowel to Tralee.

Tigerandahalf

So is the old line between Listowel and Ballybunion completely taken over by the public road so? A pity if so as it would be a lovely greenway to cycle out to the beach in Ballybunion and Listowel would be a great base too.

Is there a final development plan for the GST - as in a potential Limerick - Dingle or Cahersiveen (via Tralee) greenway?

Greaney

Is it me, or is the 'Quiet Man Greenway' campaign going from pro cycling to anti-railway?

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/greenway-campaigners-argue-ennis-to-athenry-rail-line-not-meeting-targets/

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/108293/cheaper-to-bus-all-ennis-to-athenry-rail-passengers-says-cannon?fbclid=IwAR3vY4bigb8Noy1vlgnrHT93qrcfGGnzQ33B9Qwr420qfJAavCO9gW2wRVs

Tigerandahalf

From reading the facebook page it would appear that there are strong opposing sides.
It seems figures were being misrepresented as for usage on the line and the greenway campaigners have been trying to bring light to it.
That is just my take from reading it.

I think a big sea change has come there with the local elections where a lot of pro greenway candidates were elected.

I must admit I find it confusing all the different names they are using for their greenway sections - Quiet Man, Athenry - Sligo, Colooney, Kiltimagh - all are names that pop up. I guess with it going through Sligo, Mayo and Galway different bodies are responsible for different sections.

I thought the Quiet Man was related to events in Cong, Co. Mayo.

MJohnston

I'd imagine that's much like the pro-Metrolink groups that sprouted up here - there's been such a vocal contingent lobbying for the WRC, so you have to make your voice heard if you want politicians to understand that there are alternative viewpoints out there.

Greaney

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I thought the Quiet Man was related to events in Cong, Co. Mayo.

Yeah, the Quiet Man refers to the fact that the location used for the train scene for Castletown station is in fact Ballyglunin.

As for the figures, they've been growing steadily, and I use the train and see a slew of students pour off it at 9:05 coming up from Ardrahan. Anyways
1) I dont' think it's a good campaign stratagey and
2) Bike Week is the week after next and I see no bike week posts on their page what so ever which makes me wonder, do they have an interest in cycling?

Tigerandahalf

I think a problem with the figures was related to the majority of people getting on the train at Oranmore into the city, and these figures then being used to showcase the increased usage of the Ennis Athenry line, to justify its finances.

We will just have to wait and see what happens.