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"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forw

Nody

Note anything after this post may contain spoilers for the episode; do not read or open this thread until you have watched the whole episode!!!

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laugh

I loved this show for a long time and it ends like a B movie. Tyrion’s speech about Bran was some of the cringiest **** I’ve ever heard. Why does Greyworm give a **** what any of these people think or want? Sansa did so much to free the north. Who is making sure John stays at the wall, the unsullied just pissed off.

Twenty Grand

BoroMan32 wrote: »

He's actually been worse in this season; absolutely woeful the last few episodes.

In fairness he's f*ck all to go on.

Jon is as confused by season 8 as the rest of us.

TerrorFirmer

Midnight_EG wrote: »

So Jaime and Cersei could have stood LITERALLY ANYWHERE ELSE and not died

Have to admit that part grated on me something fierce.

E05 -red keep collapses, floor by floor, column by column. Grand.

E06- turns out just a few bricks fell loose - so little, in fact, that the crypts are mysterically and inexplicibly infact when Tyrion investigates - and Jaime and Cersi had the misfortune to be in that spot.

Paddy Cow

I actually enjoyed this episode, probably because I had low expectations after episode four and made peace with the formulatic model they took. There are of course huge inconsistencies but I've decided to over look them. Like many, I have no problem where people ended up but how they got there was seriously bad writing. For any other show it would have been highly entertaining but for GOT it lost the sophistication of earlier seasons. There were some things I really liked:

Tyrion finding Jamie and Cersei buried together in the rubble. My heart went out to Tyrion. Seeing Jamie and Cersei together was also kinda poignant. Cersei was a hateful cow who deserved to die alone but Jamie got a bitter sweet happy ending, in that he died with the love of his life.

Emilia Clarks acting when she was talking to Jon was exceptional. I had never rated her until a couple of episodes ago but she was fantastic in that scene. While she was completely mad, she managed to come across as someone who didn't see themselves as a tyrant and just doing the greater good. Her downfall was when she told Jon "they won't have a choice". I know it's cliche that he stabbed her but I liked it.

Brienne reading that Ser Jamie was the Kingslayer and fleshing out his pages. I teared up when she wrote "He died protecting his Queen".

Sansa as Queen in the North. In the first season she couldn't wait to get away from the place but she suffered a hell of a lot and finally learned what was important. She figured out the game and protected her people. She really did look regal and will make a good ruler. She doesn't just want power, she looks to ruling long term, which was shown when she questioned food storage etc.

Arya going west of Westeros is a bit strange but I accept it. For a second I thought they were going to ruin her character when she told Jon she wouldn't see him again and I thought she was going to say something stupid like she had decided to marry Gendry. I don't know where she got a ship with a wolf's head (since when have the Starks had ships) but I'll over look that.

Jon finally giving Ghost a pet and a hug. I like that he has ended up with the Wildlings. A huge deal was made of his rightful claim to the throne but any claim by a Targaryen was ended with Robert's rebellion. The only way a Targaryen could re-claim the throne was through force, like Dany tried. A desire for power is not in Jon's nature. He is driven by honour, like the Starks and doesn't seek political gain. If he had ended up on the throne just because he was supposed to be a hero, it would have been a travesty. What was that quote from one of the batman movies about the hero we need but don't deserve? Jon was a hero in that he killed Dany but he was too honourable to stay in Westeros. Bran understood that and while he "banished" him beyond the wall, he only did this to appease Grey Worm and the Dothraki. He knew Jon would be far happier there than in Westeros.

GRRM has always said that he didn't see people as good or evil (it depends on perspective) and he didn't want to write a fantasy story that fell into that category. One of the themes I've noticed is nature vs nurture. Theon is an example of this. He was taken at age 10 and raised by Ned to be honourable and you can see when he got older that he was conflicted by his Stark/Greyjoy loyalties. He betrayed the Starks but ultimately he chose them and died for them and Sansa putting the Stark pin on him was a nice tough. Dany was raised to believe that the Targaryens were shafted and had an absolute right to the throne and we all know how that ended. Jon was raised believing he was a bastard, with no delusions of grandeur and accepted that his lot in life was to join the Night's Watch. Even when he found out he had the best "claim" to the throne, he had no interest in it and he ended up back where he thought he belonged - behind the wall. Just because he had Targaryen blood, didn't mean he wanted to be one.

I could write an even bigger post about all that was wrong in this episode and season in general but like season 9 of Scrubs I'm going to pretend the nonsense doesn't exist and enjoy the story

robbiezero

Mokuba wrote: »

What an embarrassment of a final episode.

"I can't justify what happened, I won't try, but the war is over now" - Yet another character assassination by D&D. Jon Snow not overly bothered about genocide of innocents now, I guess. For him not to immediately see what she has become is utterly bizarre. "She's not her father" - no shes f*cking 500,000 times worse, give or take a few hundred thousand. "Cersei left her no choice"?!? What is this idiot talking about. Jon's whole defense of her in that scene is an absolute embarrassment. The fact that he actually has to be talked around into realising the truth is hilariously bad.

Worst scene of the entire season for me. You can almost hear Kit Harrington thinking - "I can't believe I have to say this ****".

"She saw her friend beheaded, she saw her dragon shot out of the sky"

Yep thats grand, a reasonable explanation for the slaughter of 100s of thousands who had nothing to do with either incident.

TerrorFirmer

robbiezero wrote: »

Worst scene of the entire season for me. You can almost hear Kit Harrington thinking - "I can't believe I have to say this ****".

"She saw her friend beheaded, she saw her dragon shot out of the sky"

Yep thats grand, a reasonable explanation for the slaughter of 100s of thousands who had nothing to do with either incident.

The one thing I actually loved about that scene was that the writers had Tyrion literally voice the exact argument that critics have been making about S05 to Jon Snow.

He spelt out that Daenerys had always been cruel, heartless, willing to accept collateral damage, but what she did to Kings Landing was not "her" and entirely a departure from everything she was, as he saw it.

Mokuba

One final thing that is really bugging me - why didn't Dany and Jon just get married. Why wouldn't either of them suggest that, or Tyrion after he learns the truth and still supports Dany? Tyrion was literally in a marriage of convenience! If he or Varys were still smart they would (Well I know why, it solves literally everything). Varys even mentions that Jon wouldn't be able to be with her because he wasn't comfortable with incest - Varys knows of tons of cases where two married people don't have sex?

Lets consider the points:

They love each other.
It guarantees Dany support of the North as Jon and Dany are viewed as equals, rather than he putting her on a Queenly pedestal. Thus more warmly welcomed, thus no paranoia.
It ensures nobody can question Dany's reign or if she is the rightful queen, thus no paranoia.
It ensures the Stark girls information is worthless as Jon is already married to her, thus no paranoia.
Vary's can't betray her as Jon and Dany are married!
They don't have to have sex, how many Westerosi marriages didn't have that going on? Sansa/Tyrion? Marg/Renly? Cersei/Robert for most of it?
Maybe after a year Jon decides he's up for a few shenanigans and Dany is even happier?
The people wouldn't care if they knew about Jon's lineage as Targ incest has been normalised for generations.

lawred2

That. Was. Amazing.

No... Wait... Crap

That. Was. Crap.

All hail Bran the Boring.

badtoro

GOT gave me a fantastic universe to escape into, great characters and stories. Tyrion and Varys had one of my favourite short exchanges “Are we really going to spend the entire road to Valantis talking about the futility of everything?” “You’re right. No point.” Bronn probably had the best line of the series commenting on Joffreys personality "There's no cure for being a ****". Stannis and "Fewer"..... Many good memories.

I always sat down to watch GOT to enjoy it, not nitpick holes in it. I did enjoy it, very much. Though probably since the Battle of the Bastards it lost it's edge. What made it great for me were the little scheming plots in different parts of the GOT world, and the huge number of characters involved to pull it off.

Then the Mother of Dragons and her army crossed the narrow sea and someone pressed 12x on fast forward. Forget online petitions, it's done. There could have been many great seasons of GOT had the right people been at the helm. I feel like the GOT universe has been wasted.

Perhaps like Deadwood, they should have just stopped. In the end, for me, GOT was reduced to seeking out leaks giving away the story. Full steam ahead for the finale, instead of reading "fini", read "meh".

Still though, when it was good, it was bloody epic!

garv123

Bran the fcuking broken?? You gotta be kidding me.
He did absolutely nothing all series, just appeared in his chair in random places with no one pushing it.

lawred2

ednwireland wrote: »

didn't they rebuild kings landing quick

Before Jon had left for the wall.

Thelonious Monk

Bran the Buzzkill

lawred2

The worst bit about that series really was that Jon survived.

An absolute sap.

beardo81

walshb wrote: »

Is it just me or is this Kit Harrington lad one desperately bland actor?

THANK YOU! I have been thinking this for years, he made the character of Jon Snow just so dreadfully soggy and limp most of the time.

As for the finale, it was appalling by GoT standards. When you think of some of the absolutely breathtaking scenes the show has produced over the years, the heart-pounding awe as the credits have rolled on some of the episodes....this was an insult to what went before it.

Poor.

Thelonious Monk

Is my tv just very HD or was Sansa really caked in slap this week?

dsmythy

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

JRRM wrote a short story about a female explorer who discovered a new land in the GOT's universe. It wasn't explicitly stated it was Arya, but it was certainly heavily implied...I see if i can find it, because i definitely read it...

Elissa Farman of Fair Isle appears in the Fire and Blood book who sailed westward. Disappeared with her ship which another claimed to have found wrecked at Asshai. Seems to be a thing for women to do this in the GOT World.

osarusan

Watched it again.

There were three things that really pissed me off. The first two have to do with how much plot and history we have to ignore for them to work:

The ease with which Tyrion got people to agree for Bran to become king. We have to ignore all the other kingdoms and the claims of independence and regular wars. And the fact that they likely know next to nothing about Bran.

The ease with which the Unsullied and Dothraki just accepted things and left. We have to ignore their rabid support of Danaerys and the fact that they could still carry on in her memory.

The third was just a horrible horrible scene. The small council meeting, the bit after Bran leaves and the desperately bad banter commences, with good-natured squabbles over spending and Tyrion reminiscing about how he once brought a donkey and a honeycomb to a brothel. That one line suggests that rather than making an earnest effort to do things right and redeem himself, Tyrion is going to revert to his previous self as a glib purveyor of witty stories. I cannot imagine how the writers thought their audience would want to see that scene.

martingriff

Paddy Cow wrote: »

There's literally no men of the Night's Watch left and there never will be a new Watch as there is no danger of the NK returning. Bran knew what he was doing. He couldn't let Jon go, or the Unsullied and Dothraki would start a war. He couldn't kill Jon or the North would start a war. He sent Jon North because he knew he would feel at home there. Like most things this season, it was badly done because for a start, there is no way Grey Worm would've let Jon and Tyrion live after Jon killed Dany but if I put aside the shoddy storytelling, Jon ended up where he should be. He's with the Wildlings who respect him and couldn't give a toss that he was a bastard or the rightful heir to a throne and they will never expect him to play the Game of Thrones.

That's a good point...... for now. Balon Greyjoy never had a powerful house but he still rebelled when he thought he had a chance. Yara could reach out to Dorne and try to start a rebellion against the Broken King. The history of Westeros has thought us that just because this is the end of this story, it's not the end of people plotting and planning against each other in the pursuit of power. The game never ends.

I agree with this it was the only way for there to be peace in the land. I feel they might be trying to set it up if they want to do sequels with Arya going west and there been a dragon some where and Bran going maybe I can find him.

But for the love that is all holy make sure that seasons are not rushed and if you need to change people at the top to do so you can and not have a situation like D&D they may have actually done some damage to there reputation

I liked this episode bizarrely for me it worked for what we had.

Knex*

That was almost hilariously pointless. Just a shocking fall from grace.

Nalz

Ball of shīt

martingriff

osarusan wrote: »

Watched it again.

There were three things that really pissed me off. The first two have to do with how much plot and history we have to ignore for them to work:

The ease with which Tyrion got people to agree for Bran to become king. We have to ignore all the other kingdoms and the claims of independence and regular wars.

The ease with which the Unsullied and Dothraki just accepted things and left. We have to ingore their rabid support of Danaerys and the fact that they could still carry on in her memory.

The third was just a horrible horrible scene. The small council meeting, the bit after Bran leaves and the desperately bad banter commences, with good-natured squabbles over spending and Tyrion reminiscing about how he once brought a donkey and a honeycomb to a brothel. That one line suggests that he is going to revert to his previous self as a glib purveyor of witty stories. I cannot imagine how the writers thought their audience would want to see that scene.

I think the point of Bran been King is that he is independent. If any of the other kingdoms tried to take control there would be just more wars and that is something they did not want or need as they were all in no fit state.

Also as they were in no fit state for a war they were happy to see the Dothraki and Unsullied just leave as they would not be able to stand against them

Tikki Wang Wang

It was plain dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung !!!!!!!!! Aaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhh

lawred2

Knex. wrote: »

That was almost hilariously pointless. Just a shocking fall from grace.

When you think of scenes like the red wedding, hardhome or the mountain and the viper versus that childish stuff, it's like two different shows entirely.

Knex*

Nalz wrote: »

Ball of shīt

Too bad to even review or bother going over all the plotholes tbh. The season is just one hilarious meme.

no.8

Some amount of moans on here. It wasn't perfect but honestly what did you record expect... Everyone dead?

I felt the first third was rather strong, weaker middle but fitting ending for the Stark characters (specifically Jon).

Like the social media witch-hunts if today, its cool to criticize all that is GoT atm

namloc1980

The meeting to elect Bran as King is just moronic and makes a mockery of the entire series. 8 seasons of the game of thrones with political manoeuvring, scheming and bloodshed from all the protagonists fighting for the throne. And then in 5 minutes they decide the creepy lad in the wheelchair with the "best story" should be king, just like that. Just silly really.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/may/20/game-of-thrones-was-this-the-cheesiest-ending-in-tv-history

Paddy Cow

Mokuba wrote: »

One final thing that is really bugging me - why didn't Dany and Jon just get married. Why wouldn't either of them suggest that, or Tyrion after he learns the truth and still supports Dany? Tyrion was literally in a marriage of convenience! If he or Varys were still smart they would (Well I know why, it solves literally everything). Varys even mentions that Jon wouldn't be able to be with her because he wasn't comfortable with incest - Varys knows of tons of cases where two married people don't have sex?

Tyrion and Varys discussed it and they came to the same conclusion Jon did - it's completely icky to have sex with your Aunt. You could see that after Jon found out his real heritage, he was still in love with and attracted to Dany but he was just repulsed by the thought of having sex with his Aunt. Targaryens have being marrying brother and sister for years but like Varys said, Jon was raised in the North where that's a no no. Even if Jon could bring himself to do it, it would never have been accepted by the people.

The inbreeding is what lead to the Targaryen madness. The saying goes that when a Targaryen is born, it's the toss of a coin if their sane. GRRM took a lot of inspiration from real life for his books and in ancient Egypt they used to wed brother and sister which lead to a whole host of genetic problems. There was also the case of the mad King George who had blue blood because of genetics. In Westeros they had to deal with Joffrey who was a result of brother and sister.

I have a lot of gripes with this season but Jon deciding it's not a good idea to marry/have a sexual relationship with his Aunt, is not one of them. No good ever comes from inbreeding.

TerrorFirmer

martingriff wrote: »

I liked this episode bizarrely for me it worked for what we had.

As someone who generally disliked this season immensely, I have to agree, this was the best possible outcome given what we'd been offered previously.

As an ending to GOT, in respect of the entire franchise, and keeping in mind everything that was so carefully crafted in S1-6? 2/10.

As an ending given what we'd been offered in S8 thus far? 6/10.

Was expecting Dexter/Lost level catastrophic bad.

Not getting that is hardly a ringing endorsement but I genuinely thought it could've been a lot worse.

alchemist33

lawred2 wrote: »

When you think of scenes like the red wedding, hardhome or the mountain and the viper versus that childish stuff, it's like two different shows entirely.

Just watching Thronecast for the second time only, and they did a montage of the dead characters. It brought back such great memories of Ed, Joffrey, Tywin, Olenna, Ramsey, Margery (swoon) and reminded me of how fantastic it had been at times.

The characters, the shocks, the humour, it was all amazing. It ground to a halt in the end but I hope I don't forget the good times.