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"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forw

Nody

Note anything after this post may contain spoilers for the episode; do not read or open this thread until you have watched the whole episode!!!

This is ONLY about the specific episode! No information from any other source but listed below are allowed to be posted but book related information is allowed as well as the lore from the DVDs. Anything relating to interviews or articles directly related to this episode can be posted with a spoiler tag.

The "Next Episode" and any speculation on what may come in the future episodes should be put in the appropriate stickied Season 8 speculation thread; any funny pictures from the episode should be posted in this thread until Wednesday rather than the funny picture thread.

Note - No spoiler tags required for the current episode in this thread.

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FunLover18

Nice to see Brienne return the favour and fill in Jaime's entry.

Tazzimus

vetinari wrote: »

I can buy this angle. A good portion of the army at Kings Landing were northeners who were loyal to Jon. It would have started an instant battle if Jon was executed without some sort of trial.

I did think the Dothraki and Unsullied got short thrift again from a story telling perspective though. Is it presumed that the Dothraki left with the Unsullied?

Except if you believe Greyworm from episode 4 I think, half the Dothraki and Unsullied survived, that's about 45k troops. The North had about 20k ish I think, Dany definitely had the bigger army of the two.

GSPfan

One little thing I seen someone mention earlier about Tyrian not being mentioned in the book Sam gives him.
I don’t think this is a spoiler for the books as it’s nothing to do with plot but Tyrian is described in very unflattering terms from a physical appearance in GRRM’s books so I think it was a light hearted attempt to save Tyrians feelings by saying he wasn’t mentioned. It’s also a very meta comment about the book not being finished just like in real life.

vetinari

Clareman wrote: »

So Jon starts the show wanting to join the Night Watch which is he able to join then get out of but his punishment is to go back to it? Grey Worm is happy out killing people that fought in another army rather than hold them as prisioners but he's ok keeping the killer of his queen as a priosioner as well as someone else who was sentenced to die.

I can buy this angle. A good portion of the army at Kings Landing were northeners who were loyal to Jon. It would have started an instant battle if Jon was executed without some sort of trial.

I did think the Dothraki and Unsullied got short thrift again from a story telling perspective though. Is it presumed that the Dothraki left with the Unsullied?

peddlelies

Pile of shíte.

Greyworm "It's not enough!!" After Bran appoints Tyrion hand as his punishment. Then it just cuts to another scene and nothing happens?

The Dothraki and unsullied were basically nodding to Jon Snow walking along on the docks after he murdered their queen. They even spent a solid 10 minutes on the stairs part showing how fired up they were, then nothing? After a decade or more of following her, they just accept it and move on? They don't try take the crown/city for themselves, or get revenge? Gee I guess instead they decided to sail somewhere else for whatever reason like nothing had happened.

Season 8 has been truly awful, it has soiled the entire show for me. The writers should hang their heads in shame. Big frown at how Bronn just appears at the end too. I see the IMDB rating is hovering around 5 for that episode, seems about right.

Edit: Forgot this

Tyrion - "Bran will you take the throne?"

Bran - "Why do you think I came?"

Ohhhh - How mysterious!

Arbitrary

Drumpot wrote: »

I enjoyed that.

Thought Jons ending was very apt, he belonged with the Wildlings and he actually got exactly what he wanted. (once he realised he Dany had to be killed).

The king of the real north.

Sad Professor

It was a rather perfunctory final episode in many ways. Just did what it needed to do and not much else. And I'm fine with that. My greatest fear was that this episode would have last minute battles and god knows what else going on in it, but thankfully they didn't make that mistake. If the previous 5 episodes (and most of season 7) were climax, this was mostly denouement. While my preferred ending would have been Dany imprisoning Jon and Tyrion and ruthlessly cementing her rule, I'm happy enough with the ending we got. The real ending was last week's episode, which (unlike many people here) I thought was excellent.

Contrary to those who think they needed another season or two or three to tell the story, I think the biggest mistake they made was splitting what was probably meant to be a single season in half with a 2 year gap between them. I blame HBO rather B&W for this. They love dragging out the final seasons of their shows.

shrewdness

Just watched it, need some time to process. First impressions are that while it wasn't the best episode you could get, I thought they tied it all together pretty fine in the end. The big, shocking moments have already happened in this season, the finale was always going to be mostly about tieing together the loose ends.

Jon killing Dany didn't come as a great shock at all, I thought maybe it happened a bit quick, but then they needed the majority of the episode to finish up everyone's story. Bran becoming King felt a bit strange at first, but someone else's point of him not wanting to be King would make him a good ruler, makes sense on reflection. Sansa got what she wanted with the North becoming it's own kingdom and her the Queen. Arya went off exploring like she always wanted. It felt like Jon was dealt the harshest hand here, but once he got to Castle Black and seen Tormund and Ghost again, he seemed more at home again. This seems to be where he is most comfortable, and as Tormund says, the "real north" is in him. I wasn't sure what was going on the end there, was that him deserting the nights watch to go further north to live with the wildings, or is he just escorting them?

Sansa telling Edmure to sit down got the biggest laugh of the episode. Interesting to see Bronn and Tyrion back on good terms now the war has ended. From a cutthroat sellsword to Lord of Highgarden and Master of Coin, quite the journey for ol Bronn. Thought Peter Dinklage was excellent throughout, as he has been for the entire show. Quite funny in comparison how Sam says he wasn't mentioned in the Song of Ice and Fire.

While it certainly wasn't the strongest season, I wouldn't be criticising it nearly as strongly as many seem to be. I feel it will age better as a binge watch over a couple of sittings, without the huge expectations there were leading into the final season.

J. Marston

If only they had done season 8 as build-up to and blow off to the battle with the Night King and season 9 as the battle for the throne.

Instead they wedged the lot into 6 episodes.

kowloon

Deleted User wrote: »

The Ironside Throne

That'll be the spinoff series.

Skylinehead

thomond2006 wrote: »

No return from Daario Naharis at all. Pity. I had hoped he would have infiltrated the Golden Company at the time.

They were pretty irrelephant in the end.

thomond2006

No return from Daario Naharis at all. Pity. I had hoped he would have infiltrated the Golden Company at the time.

Utopia Parkway

Honestly thought they wrapped it up about as well as they could have. Impossible to keep everyone happy as everyone has a different interpretation on who should live or die and who should sit on the iron throne. Many people won't have wanted Bran to be King or for Jon to be sent back to the Night's Watch. So when it happens it's understandable that some fans are going to be pissed. My only complaint is they really should have made it a full season of 10 episodes with a few longer ones mixed in. The shortened season did them no favours and led to a feeling of everything being rushed to a conclusion. The show is always better when it's given time to breathe.

All a bit sad at the end with all the Stark's going their separate ways possibly to never see each other again. Some of them at least. Which followed the last little bit of classic Thrones humour with Tyrion, Ser Davos, Bronn and Sam, bickering around the table about brothels.

meeeeh

IrishAlice wrote: »

I actually though Jon and Sansa would end up together and rule the North together. Assuming cousins is acceptable in the North.

Ewww. They were brought up as siblings...

Anyway Jon never wanted to rule and he doesn't have to now. The ending some want to see for him would be something he'd hate.

Am I the only one who finds it amusing that something like one couple survived in the whole series (Sam and Gilly). I guess dating is hard.

RickBlaine

Within less than two hours of screentime, Dany went from being one of the show's heroes to being killed as a villain. That is an insanely short timeframe for GoT.

Imagine how better it would have been if Dany's downfall was given as much time to gradually develop over many seasons as Theon or Jaime's redemptions.

Like much of this season, Dany's death felt very rushed. She was a core character since the first episode and her death should have had more impact, but it didn't. I think she needed to face the consequences of her actions, like Littlefinger last season. Jon stabbing her was like if Arya had suddenly cut Littlefinger's throat without any of the preceding dialog. It was just too sudden for such an important character.

A vast majority of this season's problems is due to this (and last) season's reduced runtime. It is crazy to think that this was requested by D+D and not mandated by HBO. Usually it is the network that is pulling the purse strings and forcing creators to amend their story accordingly. The only explanation is that they simply lost interest in the story, perhaps getting distracted by the shiny new Star Wars trilogy being dangled in front of them. For a show where duty is one of the primary themes, it is pretty bloody reckless and selfish of them to abandon their responsibilities like this. Even if they had lost interest, they could still remain as showrunners but hire other writers to finish the show.

It is a shame the Game of Thrones reputation has been tarnished.

Drumpot

I enjoyed that.

Was a shame that they decided to finish it off so quickly but luckily for me I was able to enjoy what we got.

Its so ironic that Tyrion finding Jamie was the bit that got me the most when you think about the start of the show when I wouldnt of bet I would care much for these guys.

Thought Jons ending was very apt, he belonged with the Wildlings and he actually got exactly what he wanted. (once he realised he Dany had to be killed).

The death scene was handled brilliantly, nothing I would change on that, really enjoyed that. Didnt know what the Dragon was gonna do and since Jon is of fire I presumed he would be grand.

NuMarvel

pah wrote: »

The fact that the options to choose from were

Loved it
It was fine
Disappointed
Hated it

Says a lot in itself.

Normal options would be

Amazing
Great
Good
Ok
Poor

Twitter only allows four choices in a poll, so you're a bit limited from the get go.

IrishAlice

Deleted User wrote: »

It drove Dany mad.

The ending was so bad that there was almost no point to any of it really.

Bran had no interest in ruling at all, became the king.
Jon and Bran were heavily involved in the white walker story, but Arya killed the NK... probably her first time seeing a White Walker.
Jaime was bad, then good, then bad again, then dead.
Tyrion just made lots of mistakes over and over again.
Arya’s whole story was a bit meh overall.
1 dragon killed Cersei forces.
The Unsullied and Dothraki just sail away with nothing to really fight for anymore.
Wildlings just head back home.
Everyone just sorta accepts Bran as King and life goes on.

The fan theories were more clever and complex than the actual writing in the end.

I feel it's a bit more nuanced than the above.

Bran had no interest in ruling and didn't seek power, which may make for a just ruler.

Arya trained with the faceless men to become a deadly assassin, Beric was kept alive by the Lord of Light so he could save Arya and she could fulfill her destiny.

Jaime didn't become bad again, his love of Cersei and their bond proved too strong for him to deny.

Tyrion made lots of mistakes but as hand of the king has been given an opportunity to right the wrongs.

The unsullied are finally free men, the dothraki will return to their own way of life.

From a fan point of view I thought Jon was short changed the most but he did always say he never wanted to sit on throne and living beyond the wall with the wildlings is probably a good ending for him.

I actually though Jon and Sansa would end up together and rule the North together. Assuming cousins is acceptable in the North.

Richard Hillman

If I were to give the writers a bit of credit, they tied it up so that we're not asking a load of questions. Although that's more along the lines of I couldn't be arsed anymore.

RickBlaine

Twenty Grand wrote: »

They were all guarding the far side of the Winterfell.

Not according to the battle plan map

namloc1980

At the end Westeros can't be anything other than on the brink of a civil war. 6 kingdoms bending the knee to Bran and an independent North?....no chance!

leggo

pah wrote: »

78% of people thought it was fine or worse

Not a successful finale then.

That isn’t a way people have read polls ever, but whatever gets you through your day quicker pah. :pac:

Loafing Oaf

NuMarvel wrote: »

The CSIs in King's Landing are the best in all the Seven Kingdoms.

I was thinking more of a new spinoff board game: Arya Stark with the Valyrian steel dagger in the throne room.

[Deleted User]

namloc1980 wrote: »

Was there actually any point ultimately to Jon Snow being a Targaryen?

It drove Dany mad.

The ending was so bad that there was almost no point to any of it really.

Bran had no interest in ruling at all, became the king.
Jon and Bran were heavily involved in the white walker story, but Arya killed the NK... probably her first time seeing a White Walker.
Jaime was bad, then good, then bad again, then dead.
Tyrion just made lots of mistakes over and over again.
Arya’s whole story was a bit meh overall.
1 dragon killed Cersei forces.
The Unsullied and Dothraki just sail away with nothing to really fight for anymore.
Wildlings just head back home.
Everyone just sorta accepts Bran as King and life goes on.

The fan theories were more clever and complex than the actual writing in the end.

WhiteMemento9

leggo wrote: »

Yes, I'm literally quoting back your words and reflecting how they come across. You weren't happy that people voted for "It was fine" so you tried to undermine it, then when that was pointed out, you went with, "Oh I like being different anyway because my opinions are better." Alright calm down there Danaerys. We all get to choose what we think is right.

But let's not fight. I've had six weeks of those. You didn't like it and want to think that makes you superior. Okay, grand, that's fine. You do you.

Fight about what? I feel like you are in some boxing match with yourself. I am tired just reading you wrap yourself in circles of nonsense about my posts never mind argue back.

is_that_so

namloc1980 wrote: »

Was there actually any point ultimately to Jon Snow being a Targaryen?

"Was there actually any point" could apply to a whole lot of how it ended! Like many other tidbits just dropped in, there was far too little time to see or explain.

expectationlost

martyos121 wrote: »

Given that Benioff and Weiss had that ending in their locker for years and it was the ending that was coming all along from the mind of GRRM, if they had gotten there in a more natural, earned way, I think most would’ve accepted it. But no, the writers rushed the absolute sh out of it

the writers or HBO? I don't get why they got to decide if they didn't want to work on it anymore they could have been replaced no? were the actors fed up too?

NuMarvel

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

If Drogon flew off with the body and the murder weapon, how did they know it was Jon Snow who killed her? Or that she was even dead? Could have been anyone's blood on the floor just after a massacre

The CSIs in King's Landing are the best in all the Seven Kingdoms.

Daith

namloc1980 wrote: »

Was there actually any point ultimately to Jon Snow being a Targaryen?

When he found out he stopped seeing Dany as a love interest. When others found out, they realised they had an alternative to Dany as ruler. All of this fed her paranoia.

namloc1980

Was there actually any point ultimately to Jon Snow being a Targaryen?