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"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forw

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Note anything after this post may contain spoilers for the episode; do not read or open this thread until you have watched the whole episode!!!

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osarusan

It had to wrap things up, and given the mess it hat put itself in, it didn't do too badly I thought.

Danaerys was going to die, it was just a question of who would do it. Drogon had to disappear, it was just a question of how that would happen.

The endings for most characters were ok with me, not always what I expected, but I can live with it.

Some superb scenes as usual. I thought Tyrion finding Jaime and Cersei was beautifully done, and I loved the way a pile of snow/ash turned out to be a resting but watchful Drogon.

Still lots of stuff I wasn't thrilled about. Much too similar to Lord of the Rings in how all the characters we knew were still there at the end. That dialogue in that small council meeting at the end was gruesome television. Why the f**k are those people in those positions anyway.

Not quite sure about Brienne completing the section on Jaime either....two minutes that could have been better spent on slowing down another rushed story arc.

How would a dragon know to melt the throne itself? Why do it? It added nothing. Would have been more effective/symbolic if Bran had immediately ordered it to be melted.

Real problems with the Unsullied and Dothraki just leaving without a whimper, even though Grey Worm was rabid in his following of Danaerys all along.

Biggest issue for me was Bran being voted in as king after a 5 minute speech - it is just the kind of rushed shortcut people are complaining about. There could have been a whole episode on the machinations of that alone - disagreement, compromise, threats of independence. Instead it just happens, and the writers just hope we won't stop and think 'hold on a second, why would X do Y? Why wouldn't X do Z instead? '

But that's the story of the last couple of seasons for me. Because they didn't take the time to flesh out the reasons for things happening, they effectively happen for no reason. A show that used to be great even when you did stop to think about it...now it needs the viewer not to think too much and just accept things.

Anyway, it's over...maybe when I watch it back over again in a couple of years it'll sit better with me.

Blinky Plebum

Excellent final episode.

I thought the scene where they decide the new king was good as the derisive laughter from all the Lords when Samwell suggested that allow the people to decide who their King should be was excellent as everyone (even the supposedly good northerners) thought the people were not deserving of that and in the end summed up nicely the lack of respect all the Lords have for the people they are supposed to be leading.

everlast75

I was actually surprised when Jon stuck the knife in. I think its a credit to how Emilia Clarke played the character, that even after the speech to the unsullied when she came across as a hardass b*tch, when she spoke to Jon she was as sweet as could be and it was believable to me that Jon was as conflicted as he was, and he began to be swayed by her, until..

Clareman

Thinking of it again, the ending is the only logical ending, it might have been better to have Jon go the way of Ned but there wasn't anything else for the other characters to do. I'm surprised the Iron Islands didn't declare independence as well seeing as how easy it was for the North to get independence but so be it I guess.

WhiteMemento9

leggo wrote: »

The people who voted could've easily just clicked "I was disappointed" or that they hated it. They were given four options and had the freedom to choose whichever they like, from Extremely Positive to Positive to Negative to Extremely Negative. The majority chose Positive. But, because it doesn't represent your opinion, you're ignoring that and claiming "Oh when they clicked that they REALLY meant 'it was bad' like I think." Just accept you've got a minority opinion like, it's fine, it doesn't make your thoughts any less valid. :pac:

I am more surprised that it hasn't been better received. I thought it was the kind of stuff that many would have eaten up by those who have enjoyed this season as a whole.

I'm not looking for validation from the crowd. It isn't contrary to be so but I like what I like. All I need to do is look at my local cinema week in week out to see in general that the masses like things that are a little different to my tastes.

leggo

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

I am more surprised that it hasn't been better received. I thought it was the kind of contrived, play to the masses stuff that many would have eaten up.

I'm not looking for validation from the crowd. It isn't contrary to be so but I like what I like. All I need to do is look at my local cinema week in week out to see in general that the masses like things that are a little different to my tastes.

Ugh. Read that back again. "My taste is better than everyone else's." :rolleyes:

Tough look dude. I think 'the masses' are going to be fine being different to you too tbh.

First Up

I didn't lose half a night's sleep to watch it last night and after reading the stuff here, I think I'll watch the MEP debate tonight instead.

Only some of the candidates are as ridiculous and implausible as the GOT ending.

awec

everlast75 wrote: »

I was actually surprised when Jon stuck the knife in. I think its a credit to how Emilia Clarke played the character, that even after the speech to the unsullied when she came across as a hardass b*tch, when she spoke to Jon she was as sweet as could be and it was believable to me that Jon was as conflicted as he was, and he began to be swayed by her, until..

Her death was very well done.

Hulk Hands

Yara, who only followed Danerys on the promise of being given independence, is now happy to be ruled under Bran. Another plot hole

brianregan09

There was two ways for Jon to end the show die a hero or live a king and they **** the bed , well no they **** the kingdom , I loved this show all of it everything up to this week i've enjoyed and I don't get annoyed by TV shows at all but jesus that ending ..........

I mean **** me and these are the guys been tasked with a Star Wars Trilogy , I'm actually livid over it

there was so much wrong with it I could go on for ages but I just couldn't be arsed

leggo

awec wrote: »

Her death was very well done.

I really enjoyed Emilia Clarke's performance here. I thought she straddled the line between being faithful to her character's past and delusional madness perfectly. Whether that worked or not depended entirely on her and she carried the load admirably.

WhiteMemento9

leggo wrote: »

Ugh. Read that back again. "My taste is better than everyone else's." :rolleyes:

Tough look dude. I think 'the masses' are going to be fine being different to you tbh.

First I should console myself with the idea that my opinion is still valid even though it isn't a majority held one. Now I am some sort of snob because I am OK with this idea. You're a strange poster. You make everything out like it is some sports team discussion with a winner and loser when having a conversation with them.

dsmythy

everlast75 wrote: »

I was actually surprised when Jon stuck the knife in. I think its a credit to how Emilia Clarke played the character, that even after the speech to the unsullied when she came across as a hardass b*tch, when she spoke to Jon she was as sweet as could be and it was believable to me that Jon was as conflicted as he was, and he began to be swayed by her, until..

Yeah when she said others who thought themselves to be good had no choice but to accept her "good" i gurned Cersei style. Sealed her fate.

leggo

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

First I should console myself with the idea that my opinion is still valid even though it isn't a majority held one. Now I am some sort of snob because I am OK with this idea. You're a strange poster. You make everything out like it is some sports team discussion with a winner and loser when having a conversation with them.

Yes, I'm literally quoting back your words and reflecting how they come across. You weren't happy that people voted for "It was fine" so you tried to undermine it, then when that was pointed out, you went with, "Oh I like being different anyway because my opinions are better." Alright calm down there Danaerys. We all get to choose what we think is right.

But let's not fight. I've had six weeks of those. You didn't like it and want to think that makes you superior. Okay, grand, that's fine. You do you.

Hannibal_Smith

If Drogon flew off with the body and the murder weapon, how did they know it was Jon Snow who killed her? Or that she was even dead? Could have been anyone's blood on the floor just after a massacre

namloc1980

Was there actually any point ultimately to Jon Snow being a Targaryen?

Daith

namloc1980 wrote: »

Was there actually any point ultimately to Jon Snow being a Targaryen?

When he found out he stopped seeing Dany as a love interest. When others found out, they realised they had an alternative to Dany as ruler. All of this fed her paranoia.

NuMarvel

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

If Drogon flew off with the body and the murder weapon, how did they know it was Jon Snow who killed her? Or that she was even dead? Could have been anyone's blood on the floor just after a massacre

The CSIs in King's Landing are the best in all the Seven Kingdoms.

expectationlost

martyos121 wrote: »

Given that Benioff and Weiss had that ending in their locker for years and it was the ending that was coming all along from the mind of GRRM, if they had gotten there in a more natural, earned way, I think most would’ve accepted it. But no, the writers rushed the absolute sh out of it

the writers or HBO? I don't get why they got to decide if they didn't want to work on it anymore they could have been replaced no? were the actors fed up too?

is_that_so

namloc1980 wrote: »

Was there actually any point ultimately to Jon Snow being a Targaryen?

"Was there actually any point" could apply to a whole lot of how it ended! Like many other tidbits just dropped in, there was far too little time to see or explain.

WhiteMemento9

leggo wrote: »

Yes, I'm literally quoting back your words and reflecting how they come across. You weren't happy that people voted for "It was fine" so you tried to undermine it, then when that was pointed out, you went with, "Oh I like being different anyway because my opinions are better." Alright calm down there Danaerys. We all get to choose what we think is right.

But let's not fight. I've had six weeks of those. You didn't like it and want to think that makes you superior. Okay, grand, that's fine. You do you.

Fight about what? I feel like you are in some boxing match with yourself. I am tired just reading you wrap yourself in circles of nonsense about my posts never mind argue back.

[Deleted User]

namloc1980 wrote: »

Was there actually any point ultimately to Jon Snow being a Targaryen?

It drove Dany mad.

The ending was so bad that there was almost no point to any of it really.

Bran had no interest in ruling at all, became the king.
Jon and Bran were heavily involved in the white walker story, but Arya killed the NK... probably her first time seeing a White Walker.
Jaime was bad, then good, then bad again, then dead.
Tyrion just made lots of mistakes over and over again.
Arya’s whole story was a bit meh overall.
1 dragon killed Cersei forces.
The Unsullied and Dothraki just sail away with nothing to really fight for anymore.
Wildlings just head back home.
Everyone just sorta accepts Bran as King and life goes on.

The fan theories were more clever and complex than the actual writing in the end.

Loafing Oaf

NuMarvel wrote: »

The CSIs in King's Landing are the best in all the Seven Kingdoms.

I was thinking more of a new spinoff board game: Arya Stark with the Valyrian steel dagger in the throne room.

leggo

pah wrote: »

78% of people thought it was fine or worse

Not a successful finale then.

That isn’t a way people have read polls ever, but whatever gets you through your day quicker pah. :pac:

namloc1980

At the end Westeros can't be anything other than on the brink of a civil war. 6 kingdoms bending the knee to Bran and an independent North?....no chance!

RickBlaine

Twenty Grand wrote: »

They were all guarding the far side of the Winterfell.

Not according to the battle plan map

Richard Hillman

If I were to give the writers a bit of credit, they tied it up so that we're not asking a load of questions. Although that's more along the lines of I couldn't be arsed anymore.

IrishAlice

Deleted User wrote: »

It drove Dany mad.

The ending was so bad that there was almost no point to any of it really.

Bran had no interest in ruling at all, became the king.
Jon and Bran were heavily involved in the white walker story, but Arya killed the NK... probably her first time seeing a White Walker.
Jaime was bad, then good, then bad again, then dead.
Tyrion just made lots of mistakes over and over again.
Arya’s whole story was a bit meh overall.
1 dragon killed Cersei forces.
The Unsullied and Dothraki just sail away with nothing to really fight for anymore.
Wildlings just head back home.
Everyone just sorta accepts Bran as King and life goes on.

The fan theories were more clever and complex than the actual writing in the end.

I feel it's a bit more nuanced than the above.

Bran had no interest in ruling and didn't seek power, which may make for a just ruler.

Arya trained with the faceless men to become a deadly assassin, Beric was kept alive by the Lord of Light so he could save Arya and she could fulfill her destiny.

Jaime didn't become bad again, his love of Cersei and their bond proved too strong for him to deny.

Tyrion made lots of mistakes but as hand of the king has been given an opportunity to right the wrongs.

The unsullied are finally free men, the dothraki will return to their own way of life.

From a fan point of view I thought Jon was short changed the most but he did always say he never wanted to sit on throne and living beyond the wall with the wildlings is probably a good ending for him.

I actually though Jon and Sansa would end up together and rule the North together. Assuming cousins is acceptable in the North.

NuMarvel

pah wrote: »

The fact that the options to choose from were

Loved it
It was fine
Disappointed
Hated it

Says a lot in itself.

Normal options would be

Amazing
Great
Good
Ok
Poor

Twitter only allows four choices in a poll, so you're a bit limited from the get go.

Drumpot

I enjoyed that.

Was a shame that they decided to finish it off so quickly but luckily for me I was able to enjoy what we got.

Its so ironic that Tyrion finding Jamie was the bit that got me the most when you think about the start of the show when I wouldnt of bet I would care much for these guys.

Thought Jons ending was very apt, he belonged with the Wildlings and he actually got exactly what he wanted. (once he realised he Dany had to be killed).

The death scene was handled brilliantly, nothing I would change on that, really enjoyed that. Didnt know what the Dragon was gonna do and since Jon is of fire I presumed he would be grand.