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"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forw

Nody

Note anything after this post may contain spoilers for the episode; do not read or open this thread until you have watched the whole episode!!!

This is ONLY about the specific episode! No information from any other source but listed below are allowed to be posted but book related information is allowed as well as the lore from the DVDs. Anything relating to interviews or articles directly related to this episode can be posted with a spoiler tag.

The "Next Episode" and any speculation on what may come in the future episodes should be put in the appropriate stickied Season 8 speculation thread; any funny pictures from the episode should be posted in this thread until Wednesday rather than the funny picture thread.

Note - No spoiler tags required for the current episode in this thread.

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Tazzimus

So Greyworm is killing Lannister soldiers one minute because they fought against his queen.
Jon kills Dany, taken prisoner by Greyworm. **** off.

What a pile of ****e of an ending. Far too happy for this show.

Pupper at least got a scratch behind the ear this time.

dsmythy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just saw on Reddit that probably the biggest plot hole was any of the kingdoms even caring about the powerless throne in a ruined city.

The Targaryens created the throne that rules the seven kingdoms. It makes absolutely no sense that each wouldn't just declare independence and ask Bran what he was gonna do about it. It's even worse that they were all chill with the North getting independence, and are now going to ruled by someone not from the six kingdoms; They're going to be ruled by the true heir of the kingdom that just became independent.

If there was another season one of the first port of calls would be people in each kingdom asking their Lord if they should be independent too.

Tyrion ought to warn Bran about this but he's useless these days. Bran's first mistake which will cause disquiet and future conflict. Wheel keeps turning etc.

[Deleted User]

This from Reddit made me laugh out loud.

"Chaos is a ramp"

dsmythy

My favourite part was the Lords laughing at the idea of everyone voting. I would have been sick at the idea of a kingdom switching that quickly to democracy.

sideswipe

Really wanted Drogon to blast Jon with fire only for him to walk out of the flames reborn of dragon fire like a true Targaryen.

BoJack Horseman

I liked it!

It pretty much as it needed to and as many had predicted.

paulbok

Ferajacka wrote: »

Who was the prince we were promised?

Think at this stage it has to be G.R.R. Martin. The only one who can salvage the story now.

[Deleted User]

Considering the show was largely filmed in Northern Ireland, I did get a chuckle during Tyrion's 'Bran for President' speech when he emphasised that 'Flags don't matter' :pac:

OneOfThem Stumbled

Tyrion: Hail to Bran the Boring, King of the 7, I mean 6 Kingdoms, something something, first of his name.
Ser Render: My lord hand, I have bad news. Dorne and the Iron Islands have declared independence.
Tyrion: Hail to Bran the Boring, King of the 4 Kingdoms, first of his name. We must march our armies to take back these rebellious provinces!
Ser Render: My lord we have no armies. Queen Daenerys' troops have left for Essos. The Lannister forces are wiped out. The northmen have returned to their own kingdom.
Tyrion: We must raise troops then! Send the criers down every lane and alley in King's Landing announcing that the armed forces are recruiting.
Ser Render: My lord, there are no lanes or alleys, or town criers left. We have also just received word from the Stormlands. The lords there say they have the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne and are claiming suzerainty over the whole of Westeros.

*Canned laughter*
*Tyrion looks at the camera*
*Sienfield theme plays.*

ThePott

Got in a debate with a friend recently about this last season (last two seasons?).

He was arguing that all the stuff that happens makes sense, he's read the books etc. Which I feel having read the books at this point is irrelevant as we've moved far beyond them and the context of the show is all that matters.

I was arguing that none of that matters because of the execution. I think that's what this comes down to, there are good ideas here that work but they are so poorly executed and rushed they come off as implausible. With some build-up or room to breathe a lot of these things could have worked but they don't because you almost get blindsided by them and it gives the impression that characters are only acting as they do for the plot, the progression between plot points was sped up to an insane degree and for that there's no way anything could have ever been satisfying coming into the end.

[Deleted User]

it was a disappointing end, but I can't really see it having gone any other way.

The thing that has kept us all intrigued is the constant plot twists and killing off people we think are going to be the final king/queen. When it comes to a conclusion and there are no plot twists left, it was always going to end in disappointment.

It needed one more episode though, after Dany was killed, they just seemed to rush it to an end. Dany turning in to the evil emperor/syth lord in a kind of Star Wars way was a great storyline that could have taken the whole episode, with Jon killing her the climactic end.

Next weeks show should have been the final one, with more time given to the plotting and creation of the final outcome.

everlast75

I was told Martin wrote the books and the TV show caught up with it, and is it right to say that the TV series overtook the books?

If so, will Martin complete the books, or has he already?

If he has is the issue, not with what Martin wrote, but how the directors told the story, or is it both?

The Iron Giant

BoJack Horseman

Aegir wrote: »

Next weeks show should have been the final one, with more time given to the plotting and creation of the final outcome.

One more episode would have been appropriate and appreciated in hindsight.

rob316

everlast75 wrote: »

I was told Martin wrote the books and the TV show caught up with it, and is it right to say that the TV series overtook the books?

If so, will Martin complete the books, or has he already?

If he has is the issue, not with what Martin wrote, but how the directors told the story, or is it both?

Martin told the writers who would be king and how Dany turns out but they just didn't know how to get there.

IvySlayer

Hard to believe that the Unsullied and the dothraki wouldn't have killed Jon and everyone else after Danys death..

Huntergonzo

So that’s it, no more Game of Thrones, I have to say it was one of the best tv series I’ve ever watched, even if it did end on rushed/disappointing note. It can be so hard to bring about a satisfying end to any tv series, but GOT in particular, with all its diehard fans, diehard fans of GRRM’s books and massive array of intriguing and beloved characters and story arcs must have been a nightmare to bring to a conclusion.

So focusing on the episode itself, I think it was a little weak, a little bit dull/boring if I’m honest, there’s too much walking around pondering with not a whole pile happening. Then there’s Daenerys who’s become the very thing see set out to destroy, the tyrannical tyrant, only for Jon Snow to save the day yet again. Bit strange though that neither the Dothraki nor the Unsullied slaughtered Jon Snow on the spot, he killed their beloved Queen who they’ve been following passionately for all this time, only to basically give Jon Snow a free pass, bizarre.

Then there’s Jon himself, one of the real good guys, the hero of many wars, the man who made peace with the wildlings, a truly just figure in an often savage world, where does he end up? a destitute outcast heading off into the snowy abyss. I understand it would be very difficult for him to be king after killing Danny (even though he was right to do so), but it’s hardly a satisfying end for such a big character.

Then we turn to our monarchs, Sansa is Queen in the North, which I have to say was no real surprise, for the last 2-3 seasons I had her pinned down as a Queen of some sort and the North makes the most sense. But Bran and the sudden birth of democracy, not sure where they came from, Bran seems like a very left of field choice and for everyone (bar his sister) to back him on the spot is almost comical.

Also the small council seems a little far-fetched, a bit too much like a happy ending for GOT, I like all the characters, especially Bronn, but him as master of the coin, come on. Also there’s no badie on the council, again very unGOT.

Anyway over all I feel seasons 1-4 were outstanding, 5-7 were notably down on quality but still good and provided the odd piece of genius (think Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards, the reveal of Jon Snow’s true identity etc), but season 8 was average at best. I do feel there’s an online campaign to make everyone hate the last season which I’m not inclined to go along with, I don’t despise it but it’s a poor enough finish to a great series, it deserved better but it wasn’t exactly an abomination either.

leggo

ricero wrote: »

A total flop of an ending and final series. I look forward to leggo trying to defend this mess lol

What a weird thing to say. I've had misgivings about this season: Lyanna killing the giant, Jon just giving away Ghost etc. I just haven't followed along the mob mentality and gone to town on a show I like that the rest of the world is fine with. Don't believe me?

https://twitter.com/binge_mode/status/1130298223258509312

That's the majority of a 20,000 person vote of GoT fans saying they loved or thought the finale was fine. Just 14% share the majority opinion on here, meaning the majority opinion on here is less shared than the anti-repeal or anti-gay marriage votes in Ireland. I mean, sorry, it just became the cool thing to slate this season here. Maybe it's because Irish people can't hack a 3am bedtime and are cranky...who knows? But trying to call me out publicly for stating a majority opinion is weird behaviour dude.

As for my own thoughts on the finale...

I wasn't mad on 'Bran the Broken' tbh and I'm still not. I could've been but I wish they gave that twist a bit more runway. Deciding now that "stories" are the most important thing, having never been mentioned before, is very random. It's a questionable plot choice but I guess it was the one GRRM dictated for them. I'd find it funny if he went a totally different way and the choice was made just to mess the show up. But we'll likely never know. The greatest conman of our time, and I don't mean that as an insult. If they'd have gone along the route of "cripples, bastards and broken things" even, that would've been a theme of the show that had pre-established. But no. What matters now are 'stories' for some reason. Okay.

Having said that, I did like them actually addressing that there was a realm outside of the main characters and bringing back some old faces. Edmure nominating himself made me laugh a LOT, I'm so happy they made time for that. I think that whole scene and decision-making process would've made for a fantastic full, extended episode. But oh well, we got what we got...

LOVED everything up until that scene. I've went through why I loved Jon killing Dany already. Having elongated conversations and scenes with room to breathe build to it was also refreshing considering the rushed pace of the season.

Happy with everyone who survived. Happy with the roles they're filling. Jon being a tragic hero but stumbling into a happy ending for him anyway is fitting. I found it ballsy they made Sansa a bit power hungry towards the end, you could tell she was waiting for everyone to nominate her for the throne (and she should've been; by far the most qualified character), but an independent North makes sense too. Sure I could be a knob and nitpick, but would "The Prince of Dorne is actually really good at budgeting" have been a better ending than having the small counsel of faces we know having the craic? Glad they did the ASOIAF nod with Sam. But it also dispels the myth that Sam is GRRM's avatar: because at least he can finish a ****ing book.

Clareman

So Jon starts the show wanting to join the Night Watch which is he able to join then get out of but his punishment is to go back to it? Grey Worm is happy out killing people that fought in another army rather than hold them as prisioners but he's ok keeping the killer of his queen as a priosioner as well as someone else who was sentenced to die.

ThunbergsAreGo

leggo wrote: »

What a weird thing to say. I've had misgivings about this season: Lyanna killing the giant, Jon just giving away Ghost etc. I just haven't followed along the mob mentality and gone to town on a show I like that the rest of the world is fine with. Don't believe me?

https://twitter.com/binge_mode/status/1130298223258509312

Is "its fine" not the worst thing to say?

I know that the case when I ask my wife

WhiteMemento9

The train crash that has been this season has created an empty, hollow feeling watching it all unfold because at this point I just don't really care. Bored is probably the best description of watching that episode.

leggo

naughtb4 wrote: »

Is "its fine" not the worst thing to say?

I know that the case when I ask my wife :D

That's "I'm fine" and your stock response to the missus when she says it is, "Good, you should be."

spurious

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Bored is probably the best description of watching that episode.

Must agree with this. It was the only episode of the whole series I caught myself checking how much is left (and not in a good way). Really disappointing last episode.

johnny_ultimate

While I’m not convinced ‘more episodes’ is the definitive solution to the issues that have hit the series in recent seasons, I do have to give credit to the creative team here for episode two of this season. That was an example of fan service at its best - getting the characters together in one space and having them interact in ways that felt genuine and earned. It was unhurried and all the better for it, but still drenched in a feeling of unease and impending doom. If the subsequent episodes couldn’t quite live up to it, it was nonetheless a final reminder of just how good this show could be.

alchemist33

leggo wrote: »

What a weird thing to say. I've had misgivings about this season: Lyanna killing the giant, Jon just giving away Ghost etc. I just haven't followed along the mob mentality and gone to town on a show I like that the rest of the world is fine with. Don't believe me?

https://twitter.com/binge_mode/status/1130298223258509312

That's the majority of a 20,000 person vote of GoT fans saying they loved or thought the finale was fine. Just 14% share the majority opinion on here, meaning the majority opinion on here is less shared than the anti-repeal or anti-gay marriage votes in Ireland. I mean, sorry, it just became the cool thing to slate this season here. Maybe it's because Irish people can't hack a 3am bedtime and are cranky...who knows? But trying to call me out publicly for stating a majority opinion is weird behaviour dude.

As for my own thoughts on the finale...

I wasn't mad on 'Bran the Broken' tbh and I'm still not. I could've been but I wish they gave that twist a bit more runway. Deciding now that "stories" are the most important thing, having never been mentioned before, is very random. It's a questionable plot choice but I guess it was the one GRRM dictated for them. I'd find it funny if he went a totally different way and the choice was made just to mess the show up. But we'll likely never know. The greatest conman of our time, and I don't mean that as an insult. If they'd have gone along the route of "cripples, bastards and broken things" even, that would've been a theme of the show that had pre-established. But no. What matters now are 'stories' for some reason. Okay.

Having said that, I did like them actually addressing that there was a realm outside of the main characters and bringing back some old faces. Edmure nominating himself made me laugh a LOT, I'm so happy they made time for that. I think that whole scene and decision-making process would've made for a fantastic full, extended episode. But oh well, we got what we got...

LOVED everything up until that scene. I've went through why I loved Jon killing Dany already. Having elongated conversations and scenes with room to breathe build to it was also refreshing considering the rushed pace of the season.

Happy with everyone who survived. Happy with the roles they're filling. Jon being a tragic hero but stumbling into a happy ending for him anyway is fitting. I found it ballsy they made Sansa a bit power hungry towards the end, you could tell she was waiting for everyone to nominate her for the throne (and she should've been; by far the most qualified character), but an independent North makes sense too. Sure I could be a knob and nitpick, but would "The Prince of Dorne is actually really good at budgeting" have been a better ending than having the small counsel of faces we know having the craic? Glad they did the ASOIAF nod with Sam. But it also dispels the myth that Sam is GRRM's avatar: because at least he can finish a ****ing book.

It's more like 37% agree with most here. And "fine" is nothing to be proud of either.

leggo

Clareman wrote: »

So Jon starts the show wanting to join the Night Watch which is he able to join then get out of but his punishment is to go back to it? Grey Worm is happy out killing people that fought in another army rather than hold them as prisioners but he's ok keeping the killer of his queen as a priosioner as well as someone else who was sentenced to die.

There are things you could nitpick about but these aren't really two of them. If he'd have killed the King of the North while the Northmen were still there, that's possibly an instant war with the people who just helped them take the city. It's a decision WAY beyond his paygrade. Same with Tyrion. Dany hadn't sentenced him to die yet, though we can reasonably assume that's how it would've ended had she lived. All she'd said to Greyworm was "Take him." He did.

I mean IF you're going to nitpick, then look at one step beyond that: how did they convene the lords of the realm? How did they even come to that decision? Can the Unsullied or Dothraki write to send ravens? Do they even know who Robin Arryn is? If so, how? But not killing Jon or Tyrion is fine. They're soldiers known for meticulously following orders, they'll die if you order them to like, who ordered them to kill those people?

WhiteMemento9

In isolation the episode is fine. Given the corner in which the show has painted itself, it produces an episode that was all that could really be expected.

Damning with faint praise comes with mind when you see 'It was fine'.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

As an aside, here's one of the best pieces of writing about the season I've read, from writer & academic Zeynep Tufekci. Written before this episode, but IMO takes a fascinating alternative perspective on the show's shift in approach: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/

I think that completely nails why the show has unravelled so badly.

Hardtochoose

Boring episode . Found myself looking at my phone for large parts of it. Awful end to what started out as a brilliant tv show.

leggo

alchemist33 wrote: »

It's more like 37% agree with most here.

Congratulations, at a push that makes it 4% more than the Repeal vote and still less than the marriage equality vote. Still a vast minority opinion. :pac:

I'm not even singing the episode's praises myself, I had issues with it that I've outlined. I just find it gas when people need their opinion validated or join in mob mentality. Like this stuff is hilarious to me...

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Damning with faint praise comes with mind when you see 'It was fine'.

The people who voted could've easily just clicked "I was disappointed" or that they hated it. They were given four options and had the freedom to choose whichever they like, from Extremely Positive to Positive to Negative to Extremely Negative. The majority chose Positive. But, because it doesn't represent your opinion, you're ignoring that and claiming "Oh when they clicked that they REALLY meant 'it was bad' like I think." Just accept you've got a minority opinion like, it's fine, it doesn't make your thoughts any less valid. :pac:

brianregan09

Moral of the story do the right thing and end up out in the cold

Give me fire, blood and a hot blonde queen wife anyday