A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: » Re: TB: I assume the reason nobody is very worried about swine TB is because of the factory-farming method: pigs on these farms live indoors 24/7 and there is usually a decent level of infection control in place which impedes some types of disease, including TB, from entering or leaving. Salmonella is common though. Apparently Ireland has some of the prevalent incidence of salmonella infection in the European pig herd. That's why my relative was so concerned with the practices observed in the laboratory of an Irish abbatoir: salmonella samples being mis-labeled, or not labeled at all. As this isn't a routine veterinary/ Department of Ag function, and is undertaken by the abbatoir itself, it's pretty much out of the vets' hands. They're not hired to supervise the labs, except maybe occasional visits. How occasional, I don't know. Why isn't this tackled? I don't know. I can only speculate that it's not in the farmers' or abbatoirs' interests. They are a tiny, but economically fairly powerful group who pretty much run their own affairs.
lalababa wrote: » Abattoirs: there are c.60,000 pigs killed per WEEK in Ireland. With Rosderra killing 30k+ in two facilities. Staunton and Dawn pork are the other big players.
_Brian wrote: » Cattle are checked individually for TB as it’s a problem. Isn’t an issue in pigs that I know of. Otherwise cattle are treated at a herd level for parasites etc.
_Brian wrote: » I’m sure if there were a serious issue they would highlight it to the dept, vets I know are no wallflowers and certainly not afraid to make hard calls when it needed.
Muahahaha wrote: » wow those are some numbers. Is pork production here the same as beef, i.e. around 95% is exported abroad? So if treating at the herd level would it happen that an entire herd could be infected with something before the vets even knew? And what happens then, a huge cull of the entire herd? Id presume that is a huge financial loss to the pig farmer, seems strange that they wouldnt try to prevent it happening in the first place by closer vet inspections?
A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: » It has been highlighted, but a vet spends most of their time on the killing line. They aren't paid to supervise lab staff (who are hired by the Abbatoir). Anyway, we're straying back into anecdote and Duirt bean liom go nduirt bean lei. The bottom line, though, is there is a serious problem with things like salmonellosis in Irish pigs, as well as respiratory diseases which cause, or aggravate, human illness. That is reason in itself to be worried about intensive farming practices -- in any sector, but especially pigs and poultry.
_Brian wrote: » Doesn’t have to be about famine era foods. I talking about an interest in good foods. There is no interest in cooking good meals from raw ingredients, there is far too much reliance on pre prepared highly processed foods. It’s abkut buying power too, being interested enough to choose free range eggs rather than the cheaper battery eggs, Irish beef over the cheapest beef, lifting meat and checking the label to ensure its Irish origin rather than imported. Irish produced rape seed oil over imported olive oil.
Muahahaha wrote: » I get the sentiment of sourcing good ingredients and agree with it but I can never understand why people are going for Irish rape seed oil over a good Italian olive oil. A cafe near me even uses the stuff as a dressing on their salads and to be honest I find it rank to taste. I know that Irish rape seed oil is pushed a lot by TV chefs, Neven Maguire especially who always lauds it anytime he puts a pan on the hob. AFAIK this is because he is in the pay of Bord Bia to push certain Irish products on his programs, it doesnt necessarily mean they are good products, some are, some arent. But for me rape seed oil will never come anywhere near a good olive oil, they are worlds apart imo.
gozunda wrote: » You linked one single paper in relation to the issue of pig tail lesions and respiratory infections. That paper does not support your assumptions with regards to "cause, or aggravate, human illness"(sic). Bar your own comments you've provided nothing to back that up.
A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: » to be clear, I'm referring to salmonellosis in pigs as causing or aggravating human illness. We'll know you've clutched your last straw when you ask for a reference for that, I guess.
The bottom line, though, is there is a serious problem with things like salmonellosis in Irish pigs, as well asrespiratory diseases which cause, or aggravate, human illness. That is reason in itself to be worried about intensive farming practices -- in any sector, but especially pigs and poultry.
gozunda wrote: » Eh excuse please. You provided the reference, however it doesn't back up the claim which you referenced earlier in the thread and copied below. And yet you continue. Fine. If you can't stand over your claim and show where in that paper it's detailed - it's no skin of anyone else's nose ...
A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: » Why are you only highlighting the bit about respiratory diseases? Do you want to turn this into a debate about a misplaced comma? Is that how ridiculous this has gotten, a few hours after your daft comment about self-sufficiency in potatoes? We understand you made a mistake on the potatoes. Move on dude.
A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: .The biggest problems with intensive pig-farming relate to human public health (there is some evidence that respiratory disease is more prevalent in Irish pigs than elsewhere in Europe)
ham_n_mustard wrote: » How did I miss this thread??
gozunda wrote: » I would agree about a good olive oil tbh. The main difference with the rape seed oil is that- it has a high smoking point compared to olive oil and is useful for cooking at higher temperatures.
OldMrBrennan83 wrote: » Probably all comes down to whether a person prefers rape seed oil or olive oil.
_Brian wrote: » This after hours, your not allowed personal opinion, it’s my opinion or your wrong
Muahahaha wrote: » the French, Italians and Spaniards importing Irish rape seed oil instead of using their own olive oils.
Thelonious Monk wrote: There are now more pigs than people in Spain
gozunda wrote: » Likley for the same reason that the claim made below about respiratory diseases and which I clearly previously pointed out does not stand up to scrutiny - so why prevaricate? There was no mention of "salmonellosis" with this comment btw - from previous:
A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: » You're now quoting a completely different post. You're head is scrambled, man. Yes, there are concerns about the abnormally high levels of respiratory infection in pigs, and the implications for human health in this respect mainly pertains to farm workers. That's because humans and pigs have similar respiratory physiologyhttps://www.hindawi.com/journals/irt/2011/846910/ However, salmonellosis is the dominant concern for human health. That is another disease which is unusually high on Irish pig farms. . If you're still not getting it, I cannot help you.
gozunda wrote: » Nope. Wrong. It's two comments where you referred to "respiratory disease" and pigs (mention both above and previously) and your claim regarding this and human public health/ human illness. None of which was backed up by the paper you referenced.
A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: » Wait, are you really saying that you don't think respiratory infections of LA-MRSA, which we know is aggravated by intensive farming, cannot be transmitted to human beings, such as farm workers or anyone else handling the animals from birth to slaughter? The paper I referred to was intended to undeline the similarities between the human and porcine respiratory systems. I thought it was obvious, or that most farm workers would know, about LA-MRSA and the dangers associated with it.
whisky_galore wrote: » Those three nationalities think any food from outside of their respective countries is muck! Italians especially.
A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: » Re: TB: I assume the reason nobody is very worried about swine TB is because of the factory-farming method: pigs on these farms live indoors 24/7 and there is usually a decent level of infection control in place which impedes some types of disease, including TB, from entering or leaving. Salmonella is common though. Apparently Ireland has some of the most prevalent incidence of salmonella infection in the European pig herd. That's why my relative was so concerned with the practices observed in the laboratory of an Irish abbatoir: salmonella samples being mis-labeled, or not labeled at all. As this isn't a routine veterinary/ Department of Ag function, and is undertaken by the abbatoir itself, it's pretty much out of the vets' hands. They're not hired to supervise the labs, except maybe occasional visits. How occasional, I don't know. Why isn't this tackled? I don't know. I can only speculate that it's not in the farmers' or abbatoirs' interests. They are a tiny, but economically fairly powerful group who pretty much run their own affairs.
Muahahaha wrote: » Whats the purpose of cutting their tails and pulling their teeth? And who does this, a vet? Is the one vet for 50,000 figure true? Like how long would it take a vet to check and do tests on 50,000 animals? Seems impossible.
A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: » No, on the intensive farms, farm hands do it. I don't think even a defender of the intensive pig farms would claim that it's vets who are doing this work. For this reason, it's also completely laughable, and again, impractical, to suggest that anaesthetic is used.
Figures he calculated showed a 95kg pig retailed for a combined value of €585, while farmers received just €135 for the same pig at a price of €1.50/kg.
Tail-cutting is done to prevent other pigs biting tails, and teeth-cutting is done to prevent the piglets damaging a sow's teats.
That is Veterinary Ireland's figure. There are only a handful of pig vets in the country. It's a tiny speciality. There are probably more exotic specialists than pig specialists. Vets don't routinely treat individual pigs on these farms,at least not in the way that they do treat individual cattle or other domesticated large animals. They treat animals at the herd level. Tommy the pigman with 5,000 pigs on his farm isn't going to call the vet because one piglet has a hernia. It just doesn't happen, at least not on the massive industrial farms
Buford T. Justice V wrote: » While not a core subject in neither my undergraduate nor postgraduate curriculum but an elective in both, I'll attempt to answer most of your questions despite more qualified posters being unwilling to engage in this. What anaesthetic would you recommend be used? A list of some of the regulations to be passed pre approval and some of the off label regulations which would probably where your aeaesthetic would be sourced. Firstly, from undergraduate notes, the birth process itself is the most stressful part of a piglets first few days of existence but no anaesthetic is used for this. Remember also that, by it's nature, said drug would have a high death rate if given at higher than recommended levels and would have a barely perceptible effect at less than the recommended dose. Then, with a narrow range of effectiveness, you will have to contend with variable birth weights so every single piglet would have to be weighed, accurately (how to actually achieve that is worthy of a thread in itself:D), doseages calibrated individually and piglets securely held while all that is being performed which I doubt would receive much enthusiasm in a sector losing between 5 and 10 euro a pig currently.https://www.farmersjournal.ie/cashflow-concerns-see-pig-producers-call-crisis-meeting-454751
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