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M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

JupiterKid

Following on from the suggestion of a poster, this thread has been set up to discuss the need for widening the M7.

The section of the M7 IMO in immediate need (really a backlog need) for widening is the section from the Maudlins Interchange at Naas to the M9 interchange - basically the original 1983 Naas Bypass and half of the 1993 Newbridge Bypass. Is this likely to proceed in the near future?

Would the central median be wide enough for widening to D3M here? I'm pretty sure it is wide enough on the Newbridge bypass section but I'm not so sure in the case of the Naas Bypass.

Also, what bridges will need to be demolished and rebuilt? Or would it be more practical to drop the hard shoulder through the existing bridges?

What about the proposal a few years back to build a new junction at on the Naas Bypass at Osberstown? Will it still go ahead?

In the longer term, does anyone see a need to widen the M7 to the N7/M8 junction?

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Virtanen

What's was it like today merging from the M9 to the M7 with only one lane? Travelling to Dublin tomorrow afternoon but considering exiting at Kilcullen and rejoining on the other side of Naas to avoid most of the roadworks if the delay is very bad

wheres me jumpa

Virtanen wrote: »

What's was it like today merging from the M9 to the M7 with only one lane? Travelling to Dublin tomorrow afternoon but considering exiting at Kilcullen and rejoining on the other side of Naas to avoid most of the roadworks if the delay is very bad

Probably passed it around 7:35 this morning and fine, free flowing.

Yesterday slightly different. Largely due to the usual idiots who ignored the lane closed sign and shot up in the inside at speed then slowed everyone else down cutting in.

They should probably make the merge slightly longer to help avoid it.

Eoghanj

I passed through around 9.00 am this morning and it took me around 30 minutes to get from Kilcullen Junction on M9 to the end of the merge area. Not sure what the issue was, but it was not good today.

Emme

I sat for 15 minutes the Athy side of Kilcullen before giving up and going the M9. Boy did I regret it! Like another poster I was waiting more than 30 minutes to get to the merge.

The M7 was slow as well and I couldn't help but notice a lot of workers on the road who looked like they were doing nothing. Leaning over barriers in gangs of 4 and 5 talking. Some were operating equipment further on but do that many of them stand around and talk all day?

The M7 widening project is another children's hospital, it's going on and on and causing too much inconvenience in the process and probably costing more and more money. In any other country it would be long finished.

harr

I know we don’t want to dwell on speed and speed cameras but anyone else notice it has gotten dangerous. I only travel on the M7 for a full week once a month but definitely have noticed a big increase in speeds. About half the drivers sticking to 60 while the rest are tipping along, twice this morning i seen lorry having to break hard and almost slam into cars doing the 60 ... particularly bad on the newly laid sections.
I think drivers are now well aware where the speed vans can and cannot park so little chance of getting caught caught on certain sections.
Always a van just before the M9 merger. ... ( south bound)

Emme

harr wrote: »

I know we don’t want to dwell on speed and speed cameras but anyone else notice it has gotten dangerous. I only travel on the M7 for a full week once a month but definitely have noticed a big increase in speeds. About half the drivers sticking to 60 while the rest are tipping along, twice this morning i seen lorry having to break hard and almost slam into cars doing the 60 ... particularly bad on the newly laid sections.
I think drivers are now well aware where the speed vans can and cannot park so little chance of getting caught caught on certain sections.
Always a van just before the M9 merger. ... ( south bound)

I had no problem sticking to under 60 this morning. I don't agree with exceeding the speed limit but I think a lot of motorists are sick of the length of time the road is taking to complete and the tens of km of enforced speed limit. It's one of the main roads out of Dublin and they are really taking their time with the upgrades. A lot of people are fed up with the slow progress and false promises of completion. It's looking like 2020 before it's going to be properly finished and more than likely we'll have to crawl along at 60kmph until then.

rameire

Emme wrote: »

I had no problem sticking to under 60 this morning. I don't agree with exceeding the speed limit but I think a lot of motorists are sick of the length of time the road is taking to complete and the tens of km of enforced speed limit. It's one of the main roads out of Dublin and they are really taking their time with the upgrades. A lot of people are fed up with the slow progress and false promises of completion. It's looking like 2020 before it's going to be properly finished and more than likely we'll have to crawl along at 60kmph until then.

yeah, cant believe they have been building it for 10 years. so annoying.
they only started working on the road in October 2017,
the contract is to have it all done by Jan 2020.
it is a 27 month, 110 million contract.

Eoghanj

The problem with this project is that it is not meeting expectations - which were set by Kildare county council when a representative came on national radio in January and said "there will be three lanes open in April". I heard the interview on Newstalk, and i was very surprised by it, as i travel from Carlow to Dublin every day and travel through the works. It does not matter at this stage what the original completion date was, as Kildare CC set a new date of April 2019 on the morning show on Newstalk. If they had not made that statement, there would be a lot less frustration, as the exception of an early opening would not have arisen. If the original date had been maintained in public debate, most of us would probably be happy with the progress being made. But now, every week that goes by is another week beyond the opening date set in January by Kildare.

rameire

Eoghanj wrote: »

The problem with this project is that it is not meeting expectations - which were set by Kildare county council when a representative came on national radio in January and said "there will be three lanes open in April". I heard the interview on Newstalk, and i was very surprised by it, as i travel from Carlow to Dublin every day and travel through the works. It does not matter at this stage what the original completion date was, as Kildare CC set a new date of April 2019 on the morning show on Newstalk. If they had not made that statement, there would be a lot less frustration, as the exception of an early opening would not have arisen. If the original date had been maintained in public debate, most of us would probably be happy with the progress being made. But now, every week that goes by is another week beyond the opening date set in January by Kildare.

false expectations from civil servants / councilors / politicians, nothing new.
I think all that post here should realise by now that information was incorrect, no need to keep repeating it.

Emme

rameire wrote: »

false expectations from civil servants / councilors / politicians, nothing new.
I think all that post here should realise by now that information was incorrect, no need to keep repeating it.

OK. So why doesn't somebody go on national media (print and broadcast) and give people a REALISTIC completion date. Political guff doesn't help, anyone who spouts it shouldn't get voted in again.

[Deleted User]

rameire wrote: »

false expectations from civil servants / councilors / politicians, nothing new.
I think all that post here should realise by now that information was incorrect, no need to keep repeating it.

Why are we revising such recent history? The expected completion dates were set by the contractors and relayed via public bodies.

prunudo

Emme wrote: »

I had no problem sticking to under 60 this morning. I don't agree with exceeding the speed limit but I think a lot of motorists are sick of the length of time the road is taking to complete and the tens of km of enforced speed limit. It's one of the main roads out of Dublin and they are really taking their time with the upgrades. A lot of people are fed up with the slow progress and false promises of completion. It's looking like 2020 before it's going to be properly finished and more than likely we'll have to crawl along at 60kmph until then.

Says an awful lot about the mentality of Irish motorists if this is a true analogy. 'The work is taking longer than expected so I think I'll break the speed limit. I know there'll be delays but I'm impatient and my time is more important so screw the safety of the site workers'

Not referring to you btw Emme.

WishUWereHere

ronoc wrote: »

Question for people doing this commute at rush hours.

How much does the 60kmh limit add to your journey time compared to before the road works begun?

For me, the problem is not the 60kph. It's the queuing every single day, and crawling along from ( normally ) J8. Also, the KCC 'expert' going on national media making a statement that the project would be completed by end of March/April/May...now July. I honestly believe that none of the experts in KCC have a clue when it will finish.

WishUWereHere

harr wrote: »

I know we don’t want to dwell on speed and speed cameras but anyone else notice it has gotten dangerous. I only travel on the M7 for a full week once a month but definitely have noticed a big increase in speeds. About half the drivers sticking to 60 while the rest are tipping along, twice this morning i seen lorry having to break hard and almost slam into cars doing the 60 ... particularly bad on the newly laid sections.
I think drivers are now well aware where the speed vans can and cannot park so little chance of getting caught caught on certain sections.
Always a van just before the M9 merger. ... ( south bound)

I only travel as far as J10 every working day, so cannot speak for any further. I cannot recall the last time I saw a Gatso van on the roadworks. I agree that people are back to going as fast as they can, but why not? Aside from people knowing where the vans can/not park, the fencing is too high ( I think) for the Gatso to be able to capture the registration number.

Dayor Knight

WishUWereHere wrote: »

I only travel as far as J10 every working day, so cannot speak for any further. I cannot recall the last time I saw a Gatso van on the roadworks. I agree that people are back to going as fast as they can, but why not?. Aside from people knowing where the vans can/not park, the fencing is too high ( I think) for the Gatso to be able to capture the registration number.

Why not? Maybe the possibility of killing somebody, in fairness.

Emme

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why are we revising such recent history? The expected completion dates were set by the contractors and relayed via public bodies.

People have been inconvenienced by the roadworks for montha. The least they deserve is a regular update on the process.

gilly1910

rameire wrote: »

yeah, cant believe they have been building it for 10 years. so annoying.
they only started working on the road in October 2017,
the contract is to have it all done by Jan 2020.
it is a 27 month, 110 million contract.

At the end of the day, they are adding a third lane to an existing motorway, hardly a major construction feat in this day and age, and the fact of the matter is that if this was happening in any other country of note, it would be done in half the time. The Irish have been building roads and involved in many other major construction projects in the UK and America for decades all of which get build in half the time. However for some bizarre reason when building in their own country, jobs take twice as long and invariably cost twice as much as originally envisaged.

_Kaiser_

rameire wrote: »

false expectations from civil servants / councilors / politicians, nothing new.
I think all that post here should realise by now that information was incorrect, no need to keep repeating it.

Or we can stop making excuses for what is an extremely badly managed project with a ridiculous amount of padding.

If this had been worked on last year instead of mostly lying idle then it would have hit the April deadline, or potentially even earlier.

I am tired of reading the excuses and defence of what has been an extremely frustrating and unnecessarily long upgrade of what is one of the busiest primary routes in the country.

MaceFace

While it is frustrating for everyone, the vast majority of posters, including me, have no understanding of the project.
Suggesting that it is badly managed with time padded, or that it is behind schedule, or that people should have been working 24x7 last summer or in dark nights, or even that other countries "do it better".... well, what qualifies you to say such a thing?

These inputs are no better than a politician who has no say or involvement in the project giving his opinion or saying what he has heard. Unless you have an involvement in the project or some relevant experience with actual knowledge of the project, then you just don't have any idea.

According to many sources (1, 2, 3, 4), the completion date was originally 2020.
I suspect that many of the early completion dates were fools relaying information they heard second or third hand and presenting it as fact.

The one thing I would absolutely agree with is that the official website should have a set of significant milestones and dates published.

Mantis Toboggan

The 2020 completion date is the entire project including the Sallins bypass and associated works. The completion date for the extra lane was originally Paddys weekend 2019 which later got moved back to Easter.

We're now 17 months in to what is an additional lane for 14km with new junctions. It's not exactly the palm in dubai they're building. People are entitled to be frustrated especially when they have to endure it day in day out while they see all the machines parked up for the weekend at 2pm on a Friday.

There should have been multiple teams working in multiple areas on this job and it should have been made a priority. But SIAC put in the low ball offer to get the job so they win just do the bare minimum as they cannot afford not to.

I wouldn't blame SIAC, its the government who awarded the contract, maybe they need to look at their procurement procedures. Maybe that's one good thing which might come from this job and the children's hospital but somehow I doubt it.

Emme

At this stage I feel like trading my car in for a pony and trap. They way traffic is on the M9/N7 now a pony and trap would be no slower than a car.

Indeed some people are putting that idea into practice sulky racing on the N7

The road widening project seems to be nice cushy jobs for the boys for the maximum length of time. From what I can see they work at a fairly leisurely pace - no stress, working lunches and late nights on the job for them trying to make up for time lost in traffic! :mad:

harr

I see people now giving out about them cutting down the trees along the side of the motorway to make way for the new hard shoulder.... KCC has confirmed planning permission was granted for this , seemingly it goes against the wildlife act of not cutting hedges between March and August.

_Kaiser_

MaceFace wrote: »

While it is frustrating for everyone, the vast majority of posters, including me, have no understanding of the project.
Suggesting that it is badly managed with time padded, or that it is behind schedule, or that people should have been working 24x7 last summer or in dark nights, or even that other countries "do it better".... well, what qualifies you to say such a thing?

Ultimately, it's an extra lane and a bridge with some new/amended surrounding roads. It's not constructing the Empire State Building, and it's a project that is done all the time - indeed the nonsense PR video a while back with slow motion drone shots made much of the supposed expertise and experience of the companies involved.

There can be no other reason for much of the road lying idle but segmented last year than bad management and padding. If that section wasn't needed at that time, it shouldn't have been restricted until it was. It's in fact only since the media and local politicians have started flagging the continued delays in getting it done that a flurry of work has started on these sections in the last 2 months.

But there's plenty of blame to go around - the authorities for not treating this as the critical piece of road infrastructure it is and agreeing a timetable to suit, and the crews involved for cutting off huge chunks of it for no reason. The usual "ah shure it'll be grand!" approach so common in this country.

I don't need to be an engineer to see that, nor do I have any sympathy for anyone other than the tens of thousands of commuters caught up in this mess every day as a result.

harr

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ultimately, it's an extra lane and a bridge with some new/amended surrounding roads. It's not constructing the Empire State Building, and it's a project that is done all the time - indeed the nonsense PR video a while back with slow motion drone shots made much of the supposed expertise and experience of the companies involved.

There can be no other reason for much of the road lying idle but segmented last year than bad management and padding. If that section wasn't needed at that time, it shouldn't have been restricted until it was. It's in fact only since the media and local politicians have started flagging the continued delays in getting it done that a flurry of work has started on these sections in the last 2 months.

But there's plenty of blame to go around - the authorities for not treating this as the critical piece of road infrastructure it is and agreeing a timetable to suit, and the crews involved for cutting off huge chunks of it for no reason. The usual "ah shure it'll be grand!" approach so common in this country.

I don't need to be an engineer to see that, nor do I have any sympathy for anyone other than the tens of thousands of commuters caught up in this mess every day as a result.

This is exactly what pisses people off huge sections and no work being done , I really don’t see why they needed to put in such a long restricted speed area when it wasn’t needed. Certain locations had no work being carried out on them for months at a time and still little work on certain points yet they enforced a 60km speed restriction for total lent of proposed works.

lawred2

gilly1910 wrote: »

At the end of the day, they are adding a third lane to an existing motorway, hardly a major construction feat in this day and age, and the fact of the matter is that if this was happening in any other country of note, it would be done in half the time. The Irish have been building roads and involved in many other major construction projects in the UK and America for decades all of which get build in half the time. However for some bizarre reason when building in their own country, jobs take twice as long and invariably cost twice as much as originally envisaged.

Have you instances to hand of similar projects being done in half the time?

Chris_5339762

harr wrote: »

I see people now giving out about them cutting down the trees along the side of the motorway to make way for the new hard shoulder.... KCC has confirmed planning permission was granted for this , seemingly it goes against the wildlife act of not cutting hedges between March and August.

There is, as far as I am aware, provision in the wildlife act for major infrastructure.

Emme

lawred2 wrote: »

Have you instances to hand of similar projects being done in half the time?

Here we go again.
Have you instances to hand of similar projects being done outside Ireland in the same amount of time?

To be honest I can't imagine Italians sticking to the 60km speed limit as well as the Irish (apart from a little speeding, most of what I have seen is from trucks). Also ze Germans would get very annoyed with the slow and inefficient pace of the roadworks.

So who else would put up with this on a main commuter route, apart from the Irish? Maybe the Brits, but they have had a better public transport system than us for years.

jomalone14

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

There is, as far as I am aware, provision in the wildlife act for major infrastructure.

Those trees were always going to have to come down and KCC knew this. However, they should have been taken down long before the March-August restricted time to preserve our wildlife. Sickening.

lawred2

Emme wrote: »

Here we go again.
Have you instances to hand of similar projects being done outside Ireland in the same amount of time?

To be honest I can't imagine Italians sticking to the 60km speed limit as well as the Irish (apart from a little speeding, most of what I have seen is from trucks). Also ze Germans would get very annoyed with the slow and inefficient pace of the roadworks.

So who else would put up with this on a main commuter route, apart from the Irish? Maybe the Brits, but they have had a better public transport system than us for years.

Here we go again what?

riddles

How many times have large swathes of that median wall been built and then knocked down, surely a temp structure in place before the final positions fixed is best. The scary part of the n7 debacle is road building is referred to an example of projects we manage really well. Although I think there is pretty much nothing in terms of awfulness we won’t put up with here.