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The Irish Ham wars

Muahahaha

I dont think Ive ever seen any food product advertised so widely and consistently on tv/radio as you do ham. Between Bradys Family ham, Dennys Deli style Crumbled Ham, Shaws Hand Carved ham, Carrolls Traditional Ham, O'Heliheys Cooked SLiced Ham, it goes on and on. Rarely a day goes by you dont hear an advertisement for ham but you rarely hear much for chicken, pork, beef, lamb etc.

I cant even remember the last time I bought any kind of sliced ham. Maybe I'm missing something here, is the rest of the nation completely obsessed with ham or something? The amount of advertising certainly seems to suggest so.

Just saw that the company behind Carrolls Ham in Tullamore sold in 2015 for €40m. Is ham some kind of black gold for the Irish? And ultimately who comes out top in the Irish Ham wars?

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gozunda

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The first company named in the OP is Bradys. According to them in the link I posted they are not using reconstituted meat, but meat from single pork muscles.

And selling it for two quid a pop? I’d have my doubts. Maybe “pork muscle” could be an industry term for that meat slurry they pack down and slice up for serving?

You seem to have a thing for anuses bungholes and slurry in your comments. Perhaps you'd be better attacking the companies directly rather than throwing random ****e and seeing where it comes down?

Allinall

gozunda wrote: »

You seem to have a thing for anuses bungholes and slurry in your comments. Perhaps you'd be better attacking the companies directly rather than throwing random ****e and seeing where it comes down?

It’s a tactic when posters haven’t a bulls notion what they’re talking about.

EmmetSpiceland

Look lads, maybe you’ve got some connection to the cooked “ham” industry, I dunno, shares in it even.

Maybe you just love eating the stuff with a cup of cold beans but you’re not going to convince me that the product they provide is anything other than, very cheap, low grade meat.

Hell, maybe you think you’re the ones conning them by getting a packet of their meat product for €2, sure it’s a steal. Either way, you can eat what you like, I’m not going to be fooled by some schmaltzy advertising.

OldMrBrennan83

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Look lads, maybe you’ve got some connection to the cooked “ham” industry, I dunno, shares in it even.

Maybe you just love eating the stuff with a cup of cold beans but you’re not going to convince me that the product they provide is anything other than, very cheap, low grade meat.

Hell, maybe you think you’re the ones conning them by getting a packet of their meat product for €2, sure it’s a steal. Either way, you can eat what you like, I’m not going to be fooled by some schmaltzy advertising.

Why a cup of cold beans? Is it all about painting a certain picture?

Ger Roe

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Anyone who’s eating that muck thinking it’s some sort of “gourmet” product is deluded. That stuff is sprayed off the pig carcass, swept off the floor and hammered into ham slices. The idea it’s sliced from a pig is laughable.

I once saw a Jamie Oliver documentary where he explained the 'meat recovery' process to kids, but in terms of chicken. He produced a bowl of the resulting pink slime and asked the kids would they really eat that.... all said no and were sickened. He then shaped it into 'nuggets' applied breadcrumbs and fried it up, before asking the same question again. This time all said that they would eat it.

The look on his face was priceless, he looked like he was going to throw in the healthy eating towel there and then.

brightspark

dxhound2005 wrote:

The first company named in the OP is Bradys. According to them in the link I posted they are not using reconstituted meat, but meat from single pork muscles.

It's likely that some of their range of products is made from single muscles, they probably have other products that aren't.

Gwynplaine

Has anyone ever seen a ham wallet?

angel eyes 2012

I stopped eating pork, ham and bacon over 15 years ago. I just went off any piggy product overnight and after reading this thread I'm even more relieved I did. I do buy ham reluctantly from time to time for family members, what I find really frustrating is the misleading branding. 'Irish ham produced in Ireland' and often the actual provenance of the meat is Holland or elsewhere.

Blazer

Now bacon and cabbage on the other hand...yum yum.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Muahahaha wrote: »

I know some people dont like fat running through it but wouldnt that be a sign that it was sliced off a single piece of the pig like the leg rather than being some kind of factory pressed reformed ham made from all the innards and entrails?

I always laugh at the ads suggesting pulled pork to be a premium product. It's mechanically extracted meat off the carcass and reconstituted to resemble normal meat.

The joys of advertising, eh?

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The problem isn't with some butcher who has a licence to slaughter a few pigs a year, that's great.

But the bulk of the work, all of the slaughtering by the big farmers is done by only a few abbatoirs. The company my relative occasionally works in slaughters thousands in a day.

It takes a lot to shock a vet with twenty-odd years experience of doing slaughterhouse inspections. As a farmer, yoy must know vets who do this work, have a word with them.

It's also quite ironic, but not very relevant, that the only vet that ever lays a hand on these pigs is the one that *might* inspect their carcass. There are a tiny number of pig vets in the country, and they deal with whole herds, they don't treat individual pigs. That means bacterial infections and parasites can be rampant before they're detected. It's all quite concerning from a public health viewpoint.

Obviously that doesn't apply to someone who is just keeping a few pigs, but they're the extreme minority.

Actually, the exact opposite. The vast majority of pig farms are minimal disease units, where exposure to pathogens from outside the boundaries are strictly prevented. This removes the vast majority of disease pressures from the pigs in that unit.

Bacterial and pathogenic infections being rampant is quite funny, in fact. Any person working on a pig unit would have the training and education to spot all the most common and most of the uncommon diseases of pigs at a very early stage. As every stage of their lives are weighed, measured and counted, any deviation from the norm is spotted so early and isolated so quickly that any drop in expected performance is negligible.

In fact, from my experience of working on pig farms, the idea that parasites and infections are rampant is positively laughable.

[Deleted User]

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I always laugh at the ads suggesting pulled pork to be a premium product. It's mechanically extracted meat off the carcass and reconstituted to resemble normal meat.

The joys of advertising, eh?

Actually, the exact opposite. The vast majority of pig farms are minimal disease units, where exposure to pathogens from outside the boundaries are strictly prevented. This removes the vast majority of disease pressures from the pigs in that unit.

Bacterial and pathogenic infections being rampant is quite funny, in fact. Any person working on a pig unit would have the training and education to spot all the most common and most of the uncommon diseases of pigs at a very early stage. As every stage of their lives are weighed, measured and counted, any deviation from the norm is spotted so early and isolated so quickly that any drop in expected performance is negligible.

In fact, from my experience of working on pig farms, the idea that parasites and infections are rampant is positively laughable.

Thank goodness there’s someone on this thread who knows what they’re talking about. The amount of scaremongering going on here.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Deleted User wrote: »

Thank goodness there’s someone on this thread who knows what they’re talking about. The amount of scaremongering going on here.

I wouldn't say that but so much hyperbole can soooo easily be corrected by spending just 2 minutes on google or any search engine.

I would have had a lot of experience in the meat industry from beginning to end and there is a lot of parts that I wouldn't agree with but the stretching of credulity here is disappointing, tbh.

[Deleted User]

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

In fact, from my experience of working on pig farms, the idea that parasites and infections are rampant is positively laughable.

Of course they're not rampant. Obviously it is in a pig farmer's economic interest to take steps to avoid disease spreading into a herd of thousands of pigs. I think you should try reading the post again.

I'm talking about risks that are associated with such an intensive farming model.

You seem to have worked on a pig farm. Any opinions on the use of anaesthesia?

Timberrrrrrrr

Hang

It's pronounced hang!

"I'm having a cuppa tae and a HANG sangwich"

Buford T. Justice XIX

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Of course they're not rampant. Obviously it is in a pig farmer's economic interest to take steps to avoid disease spreading into a herd of thousands of pigs. I think you should try reading the post again.

I'm talking about risks that are associated with such an intensive farming model.

You seem to have worked on a pig farm. Any opinions on the use of anaesthesia?

It's always used where required, from my experience.

[Deleted User]

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

It's always used where required, from my experience.

Wow. That's brazen.

OK, you're saying that to convince people who've never been to an industrial-sized farm, and don't know how the rules work around who handles anaesthetic. But there's no victory in knowing you're telling a porkie.

Buford T. Justice XIX

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Wow. That's brazen.

OK, you're saying that to convince people who've never been to an industrial-sized farm, and don't know how the rules work around who handles anaesthetic. But there's no victory in knowing you're telling a porkie.

Why don't you come out and say what you're implying?

[Deleted User]

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Why don't you come out and say what you're implying?

I'm not implying anything. There's no point in trying to respond to really spurious claims about good animal welfare on large pig farms.

I'll just repeat what I've been saying already. If anyone is curious, to ask their vet the next time they bring the dog in, or the next time they have a TB test, about their vet's experience of welfare on pig farms. There isn't a vet in this country who hasn't had to work on one, even briefly (although usually as a student)

So trust your vet, not the assurances of someone on the Internet.

purplepanda

zoe 3619 wrote: »

Sheep and cows you see grazing in the fields,but for all the pork that is eaten,when was the last time you saw a herd of pigs frollicking in the sun.

Saw hundreds of pigs living out in the fields beside the Sutton Hoo treasure hoard historical site in Suffolk a couple of years ago.

They had wooden sheds as shelter & were having a great time running across the fields, rooting about in the grass & lounging about in the sunshine. My Grandad had a pig farm & used to feed them strawberries, they lived freerange before that was a buzzword.

I've stopped eating red meat because most of it is processed crap. Now eating only fish with scales, kosher style but no other seafood such as bottom feeders, crabs, mussles, eels, scrimps. lobsters either.

gozunda

purplepanda wrote: »

zoe 3619 wrote: »

Sheep and cows you see grazing in the fields,but for all the pork that is eaten,when was the last time you saw a herd of pigs frollicking in the sun.

Saw hundreds of pigs living out in the fields beside the Sutton Hoo treasure hoard historical site in Suffolk a couple of years ago.

They had wooden sheds as shelter & were having a great time running across the fields, rooting about in the grass & lounging about in the sunshine. My Grandad had a pig farm & used to feed them strawberries, they lived freerange before that was a buzzword.

I've stopped eating red meat because most of it is processed crap. Now eating only fish with scales, kosher style but no other seafood such as bottom feeders, crabs, mussles, eels, scrimps. lobsters either.

Theres one fairly decent free range pig farm that I know the owner of fairly well. Very happy pigs which make very good pork and bacon. There are others. If anyone wants good quality pork etc - start supporting them.

Not at you btw in particular but you get what you chose to buy. Most red meat is not "processed" crap. Processed crap is processed crap. It's really not that difficult to differentiate between heavily processed and good quality foodstuffs.

Source locally, ask your butcher- go direct to source and buy or better still grow or produce your own

This endless hysterics and hyperbole about 'meat' is largely agenda driven Imo and bears little resemblance to reality.

Don't like processed foods?- dont buy them. Concerned that a companies advertising is untrue or misleading? Go to the food standards or advertising watchdog or better still contact the company involved and tell them e exactly what you think.

The endless whinging and moaning is not only stupid - it's the stuff of tabloid hysteria.

If your'e not a fan of industrial style processed food. Don't buy it - whether it's origin is animal, vegetable or mineral.

gozunda

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Why don't you come out and say what you're implying?

I'm not implying anything. There's no point in trying to respond to really spurious claims about good animal welfare on large pig farms.

I'll just repeat what I've been saying already. If anyone is curious, to ask their vet the next time they bring the dog in, or the next time they have a TB test, about their vet's experience of welfare on pig farms. There isn't a vet in this country who hasn't had to work on one, even briefly (although usually as a student)

So trust your vet, not the assurances of someone on the Internet.

To be fair Miltiades - you are just "someone on the internet.". Just saying....

[Deleted User]

gozunda wrote: »

To be fair Miltiades - you are just "someone on the internet.". Just saying....

That's exactly the point I've made twice in this thread. I also said that anyone who unquestioningly believes anything said on an Internet forum needs their head examined.

Some of the things I've been told by a known professional, and have seen myself, are so outrageous I wouldn't believe them if I read them here. So -- ask your vet, read credible online research on the stuff.

brightspark

The biggest problem with "Ham" isn't that it is often made up from recovered meat, it is the addition of nitrites and other chemicals to enhance the flavour, appearance and shelf life.

There is a processor who has developed a nitrite free process for their bacon products (Finnebrogue) so perhaps others will develop other safer products

_Brian

Problem in ireland is resentment that a local artisan producer charging 10-20% more for a better product, but joe bloggs doesnt want to see him get his "premium price" so wanders into tesco and buys the cheapest alternative that can be got, it reaembles the artisan product in name alone but joe bloggs is happy because its really, really cheap and still called ham.

I'd say 70-80% of the population have no food culture at all, theyre just soulless eating machines being fed by large corporations who are making a killing on them, they consume ultra processed muck because its cheap and they have plent of money left over for beer and cigs.

There is a wealth of good food produced on irish farms and small irish processors, while it costs a bit more the product is well worth it.. free range eggs for exapmple contain twice the omega three and four times the vitamens that battery eggs do. Similarly pasture fed beef is far more nutrisious than housed beef which factories and large processors want.

We are what we eat, go out and find good suppliers, yes the food will cost more but it is better for you, better for the environment and better for the farmed animals..
Buying locally keeps money locally and supports local families and shops, shop in Tesco and your € goes straight to the UK, look at their crappy contracts, the workers would be far better in local shops if people would support them.
Recent tests of non Irish honey showed that something like 70% were buffered up with syrups, corn syrup etc as its cheap and readily available..

Oxter

_Brian wrote: »

Problem in ireland is resentment that a local artisan producer charging 10-20% more for a better product
There is a wealth of good food produced on irish farms and small irish processors. Similarly pasture fed beef is far more nutrisious than housed beef which factories and large processors want.

We are what we eat, go

le..

Where do i buy pasture fed beef?
All i see is Irish beef, Certified Angus and Organic.

No reference to any of it being pasture fed or fed in a shed on a feed lot

Thr same applies to milk coming from intensive dairy farms where the cows never see a field.

_Brian

Oxter wrote: »

Where do i buy pasture fed beef?
All i see is Irish beef, Certified Angus and Organic.

No reference to any of it being pasture fed or fed in a shed on a feed lot

Thr same applies to milk coming from intensive dairy farms where the cows never see a field.

Seek out a local butcher who kills their own animals, they will be buying the best of the animals straight from farms not feedlots, to enable the best product possible.. Where I buy meat the butcher has maybe 4-5 local suppliers, all small farmers who keep cattle out as long as possible and the indoor period is silage (preserved grass) with minimal meal.

As for cows housed 24/7/365, its really very rare in Ireland. I've worked on farms supplying milk for himan consumption, its a good product.. You will get raw milk if thats your thing.. Look locally. I know one of the suppliers below Hickeys stock local organic milk.

PLaces like

Magners Farm https://www.facebook.com/magnersfarm/
Regand Organic https://www.facebook.com/Regan-Organic-Farm-1767623943460732/

https://www.facebook.com/TheInSeasonFarm/
https://www.facebook.com/Hickeys-Farm-Fresh-793183414184519/

PLenty more.. just get searching locally, it takes effort and time.

Events like this are a great resource to see who is producing what in your area,
https://www.facebook.com/TasteofCavan/

Buford T. Justice XIX

Oxter wrote: »

Where do i buy pasture fed beef?
All i see is Irish beef, Certified Angus and Organic.

No reference to any of it being pasture fed or fed in a shed on a feed lot

Thr same applies to milk coming from intensive dairy farms where the cows never see a field.

Well over 90% of Irish milk, and probably closer to 95%+, is from herds where the cows spend the vast majority of their time on pasture. Then they are taken off when the ground conditions deteriorate and before the structure of the soil is compromised by poaching. This is a requirement that land must be maintained in good condition all through the year.

Oxter

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Well over 90% of Irish milk, and probably closer to 95%+, is from herds where the cows spend the vast majority of their time on pasture. Then they are taken off when the ground conditions deteriorate and before the structure of the soil is compromised by poaching. This is a requirement that land must be maintained in good condition all through the year.

I read in the farming forum thst young cattle from restricted herds (tb) can only be sold to feed lots.

Boom_Bap

mmmmmmmmm ham sammiches mmmmmmmmm

kowloon

Buy a lump of ham, honey and mustard, roast it. It's cheaper than packet ham and it's not much work to do.