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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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Corkbiiy

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

That sounds totally contradictory to what I was told!

I know I'm looking forward to reading CMATS anyway.

Thanks, btw.

you see I could be wrong

a lot of things are segregated, like theres 2 other plans, north docks and south docks, CMATS very minor in the large scheme of things

there is upgrade planned for the glanmire interchange when dunkettle is finished, and maybe the stuff you're on about is in those plans

hans aus dtschl

Corkbiiy wrote: »

you see I could be wrong

a lot of things are segregated, like theres 2 other plans, north docks and south docks, CMATS very minor in the large scheme of things

there is upgrade planned for the glanmire interchange when dunkettle is finished, and maybe the stuff you're on about is in those plans

Exactly.

What I've also been told is that sustainable transport is THE big push in CMATS. New segregated greenways to/from a number of the suburbs.
Luas.
More bus lanes.

Corkbiiy

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Exactly.

What I've also been told is that sustainable transport is THE big push in CMATS. New segregated greenways to/from a number of the suburbs.
Luas.
More bus lanes.

yes you're correct on all points there, walking/cycling are probably bigger parts of it than luas and BusConnects, but sure this would go in the one ear and out the other for us corkonians when we head the word LUAS

snotboogie

kub wrote: »

They will be delighted to know so, in that case, that some other lads are building away mad on their site in Maryborough and have been for the last number of weeks.

Thats the Glenveagh site on the other side of the road.

opus

snotboogie wrote: »

There is work being done on the mound of rubble on Sullivan's Quay. While it is an eyesore and possible health risk it may be bad news for the Events Centre as it was planned for use on site there.

I was looking at this before work earlier, looked like a digger was just moving the rubble around as there weren't any trucks in there to take it away

On a more positive note, looks like the new support for the new pedestrian bridge are ready & waiting.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Probably too early to know but will Bus Eireann keep their contract to run new services, BRT etc when it's all in place? I imagine LRT may be given to Transdev, similar to Dublin?

Corkbiiy

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Probably too early to know but will Bus Eireann keep their contract to run new services, BRT etc when it's all in place? I imagine LRT may be given to Transdev, similar to Dublin?

This is far beyond the scope of CMATS, which is only a feasibility document (not even a concept document, which would have more detail), but yes Bu Eireann will keep the buses, no idea who will run the LRT. CMATS is about a 115 odd pages, and maybe half is graphics and full page pictures, so very light on detail.

marno21

Corkbiiy wrote: »

let's let the report do the talking

https:// i.imgur .com/kH3itA4.png

That's an excellent argument for a motorway M22, M25, M27, M40 North Ring and M71 to provide regional connectivity but not be used to enhance sprawl.

For reference, all these roads are already carrying motorway levels of traffic. Trying to strangle them will not work.

Corkbiiy

marno21 wrote: »

That's an excellent argument for a motorway M22, M25, M27, M40 North Ring and M71 to provide regional connectivity but not be used to enhance sprawl.

For reference, all these roads are already carrying motorway levels of traffic. Trying to strangle them will not work.

I'll let you have a read and see if the planners agree with you!

https:// i.imgur. com/p39rfVX.png

https:// i.imgur. com/nl9TBZx.png

To the poster who talked about grade separation around Amgen site, looks like it's included in this picture

marno21

Corkbiiy wrote: »

I'll let you have a read and see if the planners agree with you!

https:// i.imgur. com/p39rfVX.png

https:// i.imgur. com/nl9TBZx.png

To the poster who talked about grade separation around Amgen site, looks like it's included in this picture

Thank you for that. At least we know now what the Northern Distributor Road is.

The lack of N71 improvements is disappointing but it is kind of outside the scope of the CMATS too.

Corkbiiy

marno21 wrote: »

Thank you for that. At least we know now what the Northern Distributor Road is.

The lack of N71 improvements is disappointing but it is kind of outside the scope of the CMATS too.

Theres an SDR too, that one is the pipe dream which requires a viaduct

there is absolutely no breakdown of costs in this, only final figures for each section (roads, walking/cycling, luas, busconnects)

so I doubt we can get all of this done for 3.5bn, or even double it, 7bn, Luas is down as costing 1bn, so the planners must have been smoking some very good hashish when they wrote all this

marno21

Corkbiiy wrote: »

Theres an SDR too, that one is the pipe dream which requires a viaduct

there is absolutely no breakdown of costs in this, only final figures for each section (roads, walking/cycling, luas, busconnects)

so I doubt we can get all of this done for 3.5bn, or even double it, 7bn, Luas is down as costing 1bn, so the planners must have been smoking some very good hashish when they wrote all this

If they are serious about developing Cork then this all has to be spent. A lot of it is proper no brainer stuff that would easily recoup the investment.

I have little faith that the investment will be easily found. Look at the events centre mess and the road network around Cork to see that though.

All we can hope for is that having a functional organisation (the NTA) driving this for once some of it might happen.

Corkbiiy

marno21 wrote: »

If they are serious about developing Cork then this all has to be spent. A lot of it is proper no brainer stuff that would easily recoup the investment.

I have little faith that the investment will be easily found. Look at the events centre mess and the road network around Cork to see that though.

All we can hope for is that having a functional organisation (the NTA) driving this for once some of it might happen.

have a look at this gem,

the present value of the investment is only 2.3bn, total return of 5.7bn (3 odd bn profit), you're more than doubling your money.... LOL leprechaun economics right here.

https:// i.imgur. com/NxFzgii.png

250% return, this is better than bitcoin

snotboogie

Corkbiiy wrote: »

have a look at this gem,

the present value of the investment is only 2.3bn, total return of 5.7bn (3 odd bn profit), you're more than doubling your money.... LOL leprechaun economics right here.

https:// i.imgur. com/NxFzgii.png

250% return, this is better than bitcoin

The demand for travel actually seems relatively conservative, just over a 50% increase on 2011 numbers??

Corkbiiy

snotboogie wrote: »

The demand for travel actually seems relatively conservative, just over a 50% increase on 2011 numbers??

again, i'm not a traffic engineer/planner so I'm only speculating

you see the population increase isn't that big, you're only increasing by 186k on 2011 levels by 2040, and also if you look at the dockland development plans, the plan is to contain the sprawl so seems reasonable

all the technical stuff seems great to me, very reasonable, I just don't think 2.3bn in current money is what this is going to cost, for reference, metrolink alone is 5bn in today's money, a hospital is 2bn, yet we can get busconnects, a luas, new motorways, all for 2.3??

AugustusMinimus

Corkbiiy. Thanks for all the insider knowledge. I have to ask though. Why are you posting links with gaps in them?

Cherry_Cola

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Corkbiiy. Thanks for all the insider knowledge. I have to ask though. Why are you posting links with gaps in them?

New posters with less than 25 posts are unable to post links, so that's a workaround.

namloc1980

The proposed alignment on the map through Bishopstown looks curious. Granted the map lacks detail and it's just an early overview but looks like it runs along the back of CUH and through/close to CSN and Bishopstown GAA club.

Aontachtoir

namloc1980 wrote: »

The proposed alignment on the map through Bishopstown looks curious. Granted the map lacks detail and it's just an early overview but looks like it runs along the back of CUH and through/close to CSN and Bishopstown GAA club.

It would have to go down Melbourn Road and up Curraheen Road to CUH, no? Don't see any other way to fit it without CPOing and demolishing a lot of houses, which will presumably not happen.

namloc1980

Aontachtoir wrote: »

It would have to go down Melbourn Road and up Curraheen Road to CUH, no? Don't see any other way to fit it without CPOing and demolishing a lot of houses, which will presumably not happen.

Not according to the map. Plus you wouldn't want the tram competing with car traffic on the same road if at all possible otherwise defeats the purpose.

Aontachtoir

namloc1980 wrote: »

Not according to the map. Plus you wouldn't want the tram competing with car traffic on the same road if at all possible otherwise defeats the purpose.

The map does not look like it is intended to be taken completely to scale - more like a map of the London Underground. The plans seem to be to build the Bus Rapid Transit corridors first, then add the light rail along them at a later point. So it would make sense for the light rail to end up taking that route (after a few metres are added either side of the road).

namloc1980

18-washington-street-amended-nov-20-1024x769-1165x665.jpg

12-kent-rail-station-amended-nov-14-2-1024x683-1165x665.jpg

sheff_

Aontachtoir wrote: »

It would have to go down Melbourn Road and up Curraheen Road to CUH, no? Don't see any other way to fit it without CPOing and demolishing a lot of houses, which will presumably not happen.

If you move the entrance of bishopstown comm a bit you could run a corridor up from Melbourne to bishopstown gaa, then run a corridor between the gaa and highfield pitches, then between csn and highfield and you’re through to the hospital grounds. Already an entrance to the hospital from wilton road if you want to avoid cpo-ing any houses there.

sheff_

namloc1980 wrote: »

Will the taxis be blocking the tram lane or the car lane?

[Deleted User]

sheff_ wrote: »

Will the taxis be blocking the tram lane or the car lane?

And the cyclists

kub

At the rate of when planned changes and projects actually happen in Cork.

I have a feeling that many of us will be in the next world or whatever folk believe, by the time any of that stuff happens in reality.

fonecrusher1

kub wrote: »

At the rate of when planned changes and projects actually happen in Cork.

I have a feeling that many of us will be in the next world or whatever folk believe, by the time any of that stuff happens in reality.

The renderings are cool and all but it don't amount to a hill of beans. At the rate things are progressing give it a few decades. :pac:

MrDerp

sheff_ wrote: »

If you move the entrance of bishopstown comm a bit you could run a corridor up from Melbourne to bishopstown gaa, then run a corridor between the gaa and highfield pitches, then between csn and highfield and you’re through to the hospital grounds. Already an entrance to the hospital from wilton road if you want to avoid cpo-ing any houses there.

That’s what I was thinking. CPO of highfield top pitch and back of CSN pitches. Then you just run through the perimeter of the hospital grounds but I would CPO 2-4 houses on Wilton road to create a tram only turn from Wilton road, the existing portal is quite narrow.

It’s much less disruptive than running all the way down Bishopstown road, and captures a bit more of the population without removing a man artery completely.

With a tram covering the 208 corridor from CUH you’d need to reimagine the 205 and 208 routes somewhat. 208 perhaps following the 216 route from CUH to town, 205 turning in CIT itself somewhere instead of looping up Rossa ave, or being replaced by a more frequent Ballincollig service using college road.

sheff_

MrDerp wrote: »

It’s much less disruptive than running all the way down Bishopstown road, and captures a bit more of the population without removing a man artery completely.

Yip, other than a stretch on Melbourne there’s the potential for a fully off road line from the end of Ballincollig all the way into wilton road that would still service b’collig, the planned science park, cit, cuh/wilton. Between that and the old railway line from docklands to Mahon you’d have a huge chunk segregated.
Would like to think at some point they’d look at extending along the north side of the estuary from Mahon back to Douglas.

[Deleted User]

MrDerp wrote: »

That’s what I was thinking. CPO of highfield top pitch and back of CSN pitches. Then you just run through the perimeter of the hospital grounds but I would CPO 2-4 houses on Wilton road to create a tram only turn from Wilton road, the existing portal is quite narrow.

It’s much less disruptive than running all the way down Bishopstown road, and captures a bit more of the population without removing a man artery completely.

With a tram covering the 208 corridor from CUH you’d need to reimagine the 205 and 208 routes somewhat. 208 perhaps following the 216 route from CUH to town, 205 turning in CIT itself somewhere instead of looping up Rossa ave, or being replaced by a more frequent Ballincollig service using college road.

CPO of pitches from a college and local club?