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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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ScrubsfanChris

cgcsb wrote: »

No, rather more of that traffic becomes pedestrians and cyclists, or modal shift. This phenomenon is called traffic evaporation, it's well documented, there are some good online resources.

Years ago in the 60s and 70s, people thought of traffic the same way they think water in a pipe, a constant force that can be redirected, but in the past we've come to think of it as something much more complex.

Take Dublin City Centre for example, the space for cars was reduced over the past 20 years, the number of cars entering the city was reduced, but more people than ever travel into the City now, mostly without their car.

Public transport in this country outside Dublin is diabolical and safe cycle ways are few and far between. Until either of these are improved people won't give up there personal vehicles.

Improve other options before you take away existing options, that just p*sses people off.

cgcsb

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Public transport in this country outside Dublin is diabolical and safe cycle ways are few and far between. Until either of these are improved people won't give up there personal vehicles.

Improve other options before you take away existing options, that just p*sses people off.

That's why we have CMATS which will remove a lot of road capacity and hand it over to buses and cyclists.

ScrubsfanChris

cgcsb wrote: »

That's why we have CMATS which will remove a lot of road capacity and hand it over to buses and cyclists.

And where has this been done?

I'm not pro-car and anti everything else, I'd love it if the 207 ran on time for once. Closing exists on the south ring won't fix anything.

cgcsb

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

And where has this been done?

Not sure I know what you mean?

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

I'm not pro-car and anti everything else, I'd love it if the 207 ran on time for once. Closing exists on the south ring won't fix anything.

The thing about transport systems is, they're a sum of parts, one item rarely makes a significant impact, combinations of measures are what causes change. The 207 will be better able to keep to time when it has more roadspace dedicated to buses to drive on.

snotboogie

CMATS to be published on Tuesday according to twitter

namloc1980

snotboogie wrote: »

CMATS to be published on Tuesday according to twitter

And just before an election.... it's like the sod turning all over again.

snotboogie

Luas not included according to Eoin English, instead a high capacity bus service as a “precursor to a tram”

Markcheese

snotboogie wrote: »

Luas not included according to Eoin English, instead a high capacity bus service as a “precursor to a tram”

Do you reckon they mean a proper Brt? Or just a bus-Éireann it'll be grand...

Curb Your Enthusiasm

snotboogie wrote: »

Luas not included according to Eoin English, instead a high capacity bus service as a “precursor to a tram”

Ridiculous, build the Luas and people will use it. Now, not later. Businesses will set up near the stops etc... just like in Dublin. A massive success - in fact, too many are using it... Cork needs LRT, and a proper BRT to back it up and feed into Luas stops.

cgcsb

the biggest problem with the BRT is that it means that when the time to build the LRT comes, the BRT gets taken out of action for significant lengths of time.

marno21

Cairn Homes application in for 472 units at Maryborough: http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/304367.htm

Consultation on 222 (171 houses, 51 apartments)units in Cobh: fhttp://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/304364.htm

Consultation on 753 (599 houses, 154 apartments) (!!) units in Ballyvolane: http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/304350.htm

namloc1980

No Luas and you just know it won't be a proper segregated and prioritized BRT - just a glorified bus lane.

marno21

namloc1980 wrote: »

No Luas and you just know it won't be a proper segregated and prioritized BRT - just a glorified bus lane.

The Wilton Gardens-Dennehys Cross bus lane proposals are apparently with LRT in mind. Of course, if CMATS defines a LRT corridor it'll be easy to start working peacemeal towards it. The issue being putting the BRT out of use for the LRT upgrade.

Another issue is, how are they going to run Kent Station-Mahon as BRT? Run buses down the old rail corridor??

snotboogie

Markcheese wrote: »

Do you reckon they mean a proper Brt? Or just a bus-Éireann it'll be grand...

Haha what do you think?

snotboogie

marno21 wrote: »

Cairn Homes application in for 472 units at Maryborough: http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/304367.htm

Consultation on 222 (171 houses, 51 apartments)units in Cobh: fhttp://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/304364.htm

Consultation on 753 (599 houses, 154 apartments) (!!) units in Ballyvolane: http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/304350.htm

Was their not already a cairns homes application for Maryborough? Disappointing that they announced recently that they won’t build outside Dublin for 2-5 years

namloc1980

marno21 wrote: »

The Wilton Gardens-Dennehys Cross bus lane proposals are apparently with LRT in mind. Of course, if CMATS defines a LRT corridor it'll be easy to start working peacemeal towards it. The issue being putting the BRT out of use for the LRT upgrade.

Another issue is, how are they going to run Kent Station-Mahon as BRT? Run buses down the old rail corridor??

Based on the opposition from residents in Wilton every inch of this is going to be contested and fought over. And can you imagine the level of objections if it goes down the old Blackrock rail line.

Markcheese

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Ridiculous, build the Luas and people will use it. Now, not later. Businesses will set up near the stops etc... just like in Dublin. A massive success - in fact, too many are using it... Cork needs LRT, and a proper BRT to back it up and feed into Luas stops.

Well it'll never be as busy as Luas, and doesn't need to be, (just a difference in population and density), but proper Brt, (well designed Brt only routes, and priorities , proper platforms and easy access, Luas style tickets, would be possible on several routes around the city and suburbs,

marno21

Markcheese wrote: »

Well it'll never be as busy as Luas, and doesn't need to be, (just a difference in population and density), but proper Brt, (well designed Brt only routes, and priorities , proper platforms and easy access, Luas style tickets, would be possible on several routes around the city and suburbs,

The Luas is too busy. The planned corridor in Cork would actually be suited to light rail. The Luas on the other hand being a tram required to perform the role of a high frequency rapid transit system is not appropriate for its design

I wish they'd skip the ****ing around and go straight to Luas, rather than a BRT that will quickly need to be upgraded

Markcheese

Actually that's the point of Brt, it CAN be continously upgraded, and has enormous flexibility, ultimately being able to handle as many people as urban light rail,

namloc1980

If they go with a BRT there'll be huge inertia about upgrading to LRT at any point in the future. It's just typical fudging with the issue, go for the cheap solution even if it isn't the best solution.

marno21

Markcheese wrote: »

Actually that's the point of Brt, it CAN be continously upgraded, and has enormous flexibility, ultimately being able to handle as many people as urban light rail,

It's certainly viable for a LRT if they progress it, whilst the LRT is in planning and design there will be significant densification along the corridor

Ballincollig/CIT/UCC/CUH/Western Road/City Centre/Kent Station/South Docklands/Blackrock/Mahon - can't get more viable than that in Cork

marno21

Some (depressing) information on CMATS from Eoin English

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-transport-strategy-expected-to-improve-bus-network-as-precursor-to-new-light-rail-system-923124.html

namloc1980

marno21 wrote: »

Some (depressing) information on CMATS from Eoin English

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-transport-strategy-expected-to-improve-bus-network-as-precursor-to-new-light-rail-system-923124.html

Hope there's more to it than is indicated in that article. Otherwise it's going to be a huge letdown.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

I can already sense it's going to be a mess. Objections left, right and centre and we'll be left with scraps. Bus lanes here and there with no proper BRT routes.

snotboogie

Based on the examiner article there is no BRT, just more bus lanes. Shocking stuff given the leaks over the last few months

Curb Your Enthusiasm

snotboogie wrote: »

Based on the examiner article there is no BRT, just more bus lanes. Shocking stuff given the leaks over the last few months

If that's all they could come up with it'll be very, very disappointing. No faith at all in the competency of the NTA and Co.

marno21

snotboogie wrote: »

Based on the examiner article there is no BRT, just more bus lanes. Shocking stuff given the leaks over the last few months

Always the bridesmaid.....

snotboogie

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

If that's all they could come up with it'll be very, very disappointing. No faith at all in the competency of the NTA and Co.

Reading again it looks like the east west route will be some version of BRT: id guess that it’s a continuous lane and platform level boarding, however I wouldn’t be surprised to see them fudge intersection treatment and I guarantee, guarantee taxis will be allowed in the lanes (which means cars may also be able to snake in).

A north-south BRT line from the airport to blackpool, via Douglas and the city centre, would be a fantastic but unlikely addition. Well have to wait and see...

cantalach

marno21 wrote: »

Cairn Homes application in for 472 units at Maryborough: http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/304367.htm

So when a traditional planning application goes to Cork City/County Council, it's possible to see the documents online. How does one see the documents for an application that goes straight to ABP?

marno21

cantalach wrote: »

So when a traditional planning application goes to Cork City/County Council, it's possible to see the documents online. How does one see the documents for an application that goes straight to ABP?

They get their own website ala http://ursulinegardensshd.ie/

I haven't been able to find the website for this one yet.