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"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 4 "The Last of the S" - Spoilers post 2 fo

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Note anything after this post may contain spoilers for the episode; do not read or open this thread until you have watched the whole episode!!!

This is ONLY about the specific episode! No information from any other source but listed below are allowed to be posted but book related information is allowed as well as the lore from the DVDs. Anything relating to interviews or articles directly related to this episode can be posted with a spoiler tag.

The "Next Episode" and any speculation on what may come in the future episodes should be put in the appropriate stickied Season 8 speculation thread; any funny pictures from the episode should be posted in this thread until Wednesday rather than the funny picture thread.

Note - No spoiler tags required for the current episode in this thread.

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lawlolawl

uncleoswald wrote: »

Your obsession with the offhand line of "Dany kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet" suggests you are a very literal person aren't you?

"Offhand line"?

The writers are saying that pretty much the main character of the show just straight up forgot about the existence of one of the biggest threats to her 8 season long goal because of "reasons".

It's garbage writing by two hacks who don't care about creating something decent because they have already been given their Disney contract (aka: license to print money).

They are the only ones that wanted a shorter final season of this disaster because they want to get into the business of lazily recycling the same plotlines for the next superhero/Star Wars/whatever thing whilst breaking box office records because quality doesn't matter anymore.

It's all "moments" and social media buzz now.

J. Marston

A fan edit of how the farewell to Ghost could've gone drew more emotion from me than both Rhaegal and Missandei's deaths...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwcMcjDvkdI

He's a good boy.

uncleoswald

lawlolawl wrote: »

"Offhand line"?

The writers are saying that pretty much the main character of the show just straight up forgot about the existence of one of the biggest threats to her 8 season long goal because of "reasons".

It's garbage writing by two hacks who don't care about creating something decent because they have already been given their Disney contract (aka: license to print money).

They are the only ones that wanted a shorter final season of this disaster because they want to get into the business of lazily recycling the same plotlines for the next superhero/Star Wars/whatever thing whilst breaking box office records because quality doesn't matter anymore.

It's all "moments" and social media buzz now.

Yeah it was an offhand line that you and others are bafflingly taking literally.

The episode, and which ever writer that was, was basically telling us that Dany (who of course hadn't literally "forgotten" about the Iron Fleet) underestimated her enemies, didn't expect them to be north of Kings Landing, and was making rash decisions out of fear she'd lose her claim to the throne. I personally think the fact they were able to launched such a sneak attack on the ocean is a bit silly but it's not the first time on the show that something so ridiculous has happened. The rest of your spiel just makes me think the writers must have killed your puppy or something.

delly wrote: »

A lot of good points made and I would echo the overall disappointment level. One major aspect as well is the delivery of season 7, it was just so damn good. Season 8 is bad enough, but to follow such a great season just compounds the level of disappointment.

I don't get the complaint that this season has seen a huge drop off in quality, the drop off has been more gradual in my opinion.) All the same problems of this season existed in the last. Confusing travel times, lack of threat vs. seemingly insurmountable odds and often fan-fiction level of dialogue. The absolute worst offender for this is the episode "Beyond the Wall" which for some reason has a very high viewer rating, worst episode of the show in my book.

PressRun

lawlolawl wrote: »

"Offhand line"?

The writers are saying that pretty much the main character of the show just straight up forgot about the existence of one of the biggest threats to her 8 season long goal because of "reasons".

It's garbage writing by two hacks who don't care about creating something decent because they have already been given their Disney contract (aka: license to print money).

They are the only ones that wanted a shorter final season of this disaster because they want to get into the business of lazily recycling the same plotlines for the next superhero/Star Wars/whatever thing whilst breaking box office records because quality doesn't matter anymore.

It's all "moments" and social media buzz now.

It's kind of surprising to me the lack of care that seems to have gone into the writing this season. This is their lifes work, the lifes work of the the actors and other members of the crew, a near 10 year investment by audiences. You would think that providing a fully fleshed out ending that a story of this scale and a series of this popularity deserves would be of huge importance to the writers. But it actually seems like they were keen to just wrap this up? Going against the advice of the author of the books and people in HBO seems to speak to that. I find it shocking tbh. The ending of this series could have been a huge moment for them and something they'll be remembered for, but now it feels like it might be remembered for the wrong reasons.

MisterAnarchy

That episode was a steaming pile of dung.
Kim Jung Un has spent years trying to develop intercontinental missiles but good old Qyburn has it sorted in a few weeks .

[Deleted User]

Just got through it now and another poor episode for many reasons

Better then last week but some awful coronation style editing/acting (i blame the director as the actors are good)

The laser like giant archer machines that took out the dragon were the worst.

Not to mention Deneras could fly away and attack the ships from behind or from the side without any chance of harm

How and why (i forget her name) got captured and why she would have been miraculously plucked from the sea is a mystery to me, I get the killing but it doesn't really make sense overall.

The show seems quite obvious in making denarous crazy/mad now so I can only hope they dont go down that route, not from a story telling perspective just as the spoon feeding in this episode would be an insult to people who have followed the show/books

Effects

Deleted User wrote: »

just as the spoon feeding in this episode would be an insult to people who have followed the books

There's books?

MisterAnarchy

Deleted User wrote: »

The laser like giant archer machines that took out the dragon were the worst.

Not to mention Deneras could fly away and attack the ships from behind or from the side without any chance of harm

Its beyond bad writing .

Eleven ships sitting in the open on a clear day in contested waters around an island ,yes an island , somehow managed to sneak up on an air force?
It's cheap. It does a disservice to clever characters and it makes the viewing experience unsatisfying.

[Deleted User]

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Its beyond bad writing .

Eleven ships sitting in the open on a clear day in contested waters around an island ,yes an island , somehow managed to sneak up on an air force?
It's cheap. It does a disservice to clever characters and it makes the viewing experience unsatisfying.

TBH I was trying not to be harsh but **** it, I really cant believe that got served up after last weeks **** show.

I mean I know its all filmed and ended but I really thought we would get something good this week.

It just makes no sense most of it, greyworm and messandre were on the same fecking boat but he swam to shore and started shouting for her.

You would think he would...........

TBH you would think a million different things but he wouldnt be acting like she may have drown or whatever if the ships came in and took her, if they both got in the water at the same time he would have gave his last breath the save her (given his character)

Just really poor again all over.

MisterAnarchy

This article on Esquire hits the nail on the head with what was wrong with the episode

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a27372333/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-4-analysis-spoiler-recap-review-writing-failure/

[Deleted User]

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

That episode was a steaming pile of dung.
Kim Jung Un has spent years trying to develop intercontinental missiles but good old Qyburn has it sorted in a few weeks .

The only modern equivalent of those ballistas are railguns, an as-of-yet unperfected superweapon of the 21st century.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Can someone point out a weapon in use today that can deliver that much force, that accurately, and at that distance, without being self-propelled like a rocket? They were miles away and a wooden projectile manages to smash through what, two metres of a dragon's neck?

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

The only modern equivalent of those ballistas are railguns, an as-of-yet unperfected superweapon of the 21st century.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Can someone point out a weapon in use today that can deliver that much force, that accurately, and at that distance, without being self-propelled like a rocket? They were miles away and a wooden projectile manages to smash through what, two metres of a dragon's neck?

We seem to be thinking about it too much. GoT has been given its own Q/Lucius Fox meets DaVinci/Dr. Frankenstein in the form of Qyburn and that should explain the likes of why a ballista is now a heat-seeking missile or a torpedo...whatever the scene needs it to be.

OneOfThem Stumbled

Deleted User wrote: »

The show seems quite obvious in making denarous crazy/mad now so I can only hope they dont go down that route

brace yourself

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

The only modern equivalent of those ballistas are railguns, an as-of-yet unperfected superweapon of the 21st century.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Can someone point out a weapon in use today that can deliver that much force, that accurately, and at that distance, without being self-propelled like a rocket? They were miles away and a wooden projectile manages to smash through what, two metres of a dragon's neck?

It is also a "surprise" to see how Euron, already seafarer extraordinaire, is also such a crack shot with a very cumbersome weapon, given that Bronn could barely fire the thing in any direction the first time they appeared in GOT.

OneOfThem Stumbled

is_that_so wrote: »

It is also a "surprise" to see how Euron, already seafarer extraordinaire, is also such a crack shot with a very cumbersome weapon, given that Bronn could barely fire the thing in any direction the first time they appeared in GOT.

But it was not time, then, for a dragon to die.

Equally the Battle at Winterfell was not time for a dragon to die, last episode was the time for a dragon to die. Dragon deaths are to advance the plot - circumstance be damned!

is_that_so

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

But it was not time, then, for a dragon to die.

Equally the Battle at Winterfell was not time for a dragon to die, last episode was the time for a dragon to die. Dragon deaths are to advance the plot - circumstance be damned!

Well the problem with a dragon or three on one side is that they can basically obliterate the enemy. No real story there! I don't think they are to advance the plot as much as to get the writers out of a hole whereby they can introduce some other daft premise into it, like super-accurate, human-aimed missiles in a pre-industrial world.

Wabbit Ears

The speed they reloaded the balistas really annoyed me. Fecking machine gun fire reload speed. I get there was a dozen of them but FFS.

Also. He was a good doggo and didn't deserved to be abandoned by someone who, even after finding out hes not technically a bastard, is a complete and utter bastard. Hope he dies horribly in a scenario where ghost coulda saved him.

OneOfThem Stumbled

is_that_so wrote: »

Well the problem with a dragon or three on one side is that they can basically obliterate the enemy. No real story there! I don't think they are to advance the plot as much as to get the writers out of a hole whereby they can introduce some other daft premise into it, like super-accurate, human-aimed missiles in a pre-industrial world.

The point of Euron killing a dragon was so that Daenerys would get all angry like with Cersei. If that involved Euron farting the dragon to death, then that was what it was going to take. Dragons got script immunity against Night King as that plot-line was getting wrapped up.

Not saying that I think that writing is good, but that's the purpose of it. Jorah dying in the battle of Winterfell was to deprive Daenerys of a close confidant (and also to close off that character's personal arc). Missandei being teleported into Euron's custody was to kill off the last person that Daenerys trusts, and to also make her super angry at Cersei. The Lord of Light wills it!

[Deleted User]

delly wrote: »

A lot of good points made and I would echo the overall disappointment level. One major aspect as well is the delivery of season 7, it was just so damn good. Season 8 is bad enough, but to follow such a great season just compounds the level of disappointment.

Season 7 was a mess

Tazzimus

is_that_so wrote: »

It is also a "surprise" to see how Euron, already seafarer extraordinaire, is also such a crack shot with a very cumbersome weapon, given that Bronn could barely fire the thing in any direction the first time they appeared in GOT.

Also, ignoring the fact that a ship is a lot less stable than a wagon as a firing platform..

I've been trying to see the good in this episode, and the season, but finding it harder the more I watch it.

Mousewar

Absolutely everything fell apart once they went on their mission north of the wall. Everything they had built up to that point - the complex character development, the believable plotting, the realistic universe (yes, despite the dragons and all that) and the tension that derived from that - it all disappeared. When you have your characters do something that is so unbelievably nonsensical and so clearly done just to serve a narrative purpose (give the Night King a dragon so he can bring down the wall), you betray those characters and the audience and the whole structure that the series sits on crumbles faster than the Wall itself.

And the nonsense has spread like a virus into this season with ludicrous plotlines that have been listed here already. Some people don't even realise it has happened. They still watch the big battle scenes and get excited. And don't get me wrong, there has still been some great set pieces and wonderful imagery this season and last. But the magic has gone and they know it. The satisfaction from watching these episodes is fleeting and transient. It won't linger in the mind for years to come like great art does and like the previous seasons did.

The showrunners will regret all this in the years to come if they've any sense. They had something truly great that could have entered our culture and stayed there in the same way as Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. Such a waste.

Feisar

is_that_so wrote: »

Well the problem with a dragon or three on one side is that they can basically obliterate the enemy. No real story there! I don't think they are to advance the plot as much as to get the writers out of a hole whereby they can introduce some other daft premise into it, like super-accurate, human-aimed missiles in a pre-industrial world.

Ah the roman ballista, originally invented by the Greeks was a fairly accurate weapon.Aerial moving target though...

What is more dis-believable though is that Euron and co got the drop on two dragons.

magic_murph

No long winded rant here other than this season really is a let down. I just don't understand how they have gone so wrong so quick and why force the closure into 6 episodes. Even trying to do it correctly in 12 episodes would have been a tough ask but to cramp into 6 is madness.
A Horrible end to what used to be a fantastic show. Just an utter wasted opportunity.

jammiedodgers

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

This article on Esquire hits the nail on the head with what was wrong with the episode

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a27372333/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-4-analysis-spoiler-recap-review-writing-failure/

My favourite line from that article -

Thankfully, the entire episode isn't spent in Winterfell watching these people make bad decisions. Instead, they magically teleport south, where they make more bad decisions.

:pac:

rossie1977

Tweet sums up my thoughts.

turbbo

Still bet everybody here will watch episode 5. It's muck but we still watch it.

:D:D:D:D

Plopsu

What's really sad is that, if they are hurrying this along so they can get to work on the (cheaper) spin off, they're absolutely screwing themselves. Everybody is becoming so disillusioned with this that the new show will have to be incredibly good from the off to get people to watch. Based on the writing we're seeing, that's not likely to be the case.

Paddy Cow

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

The speed they reloaded the balistas really annoyed me. Fecking machine gun fire reload speed. I get there was a dozen of them but FFS.

Also. He was a good doggo and didn't deserved to be abandoned by someone who, even after finding out hes not technically a bastard, is a complete and utter bastard. Hope he dies horribly in a scenario where ghost coulda saved him.

Ya. He should have given Ghost a pet and a hug. I wonder how p!ssed off was Kit at that scene?

I imagine a lot of the actors know the show has gone to sh1t but they still have to try and promote it.

OneOfThem Stumbled

Mousewar wrote: »

Absolutely everything fell apart once they went on their mission north of the wall.

While I totally agree with you, the actual problem for the show writers came after Cersei blew up the Sept of Baelor. While that plot-line was very well handled, it left a primary antagonist (Cersei) without any realistic prospect of victory

Cersei vs Targareans, Tyrells, Martells Dorne, Starks, the Vale, Dothraki, three dragons, etc.

Hell, the Boltons weren't even allies.

Cersei only had the temporary allies of the Freys (who were eventually all snuffed out) and some pirates (the rest of the pirates siding with Daenerys).

Much of what has happened in this season, and the last season, has been done to try and make Cersei a more credible threat. This has mainly involved Tyrion coming up with stupid plans that gets lots of Daenerys' resources destroyed (including zombie kidnap plot). Now it might turn out that Tyrion was working for Cersei all the time, and that's why all of his plans were terrible, but that still won't make any sense even if that's the case.

is_that_so

Feisar wrote: »

Ah the roman ballista, originally invented by the Greeks was a fairly accurate weapon.Aerial moving target though...

What is more dis-believable though is that Euron and co got the drop on two dragons.

Still ridiculously accurate. But on a ship? I know they were almost exclusively land-deployed and largely fixed.