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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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Nigel Fairservice

Shedite27 wrote: »

It's the road/height ratio. Lots of skyscrapers with narrow local streets don't work from an access and light point of view. Most if Irish cities are quite narrow streets which wouldn't handle them. Places like American, Middle Eastern, Australian cities that manage it are newer places with wider streets.

I'l all for skyscrapers but it needs to be manageble too.

Good point but they could have gone somewhat higher in the Dublin Docklands than they did without overwhelming the surrounding space.

ScrubsfanChris

These have added to the linkedin page so I can finally post them here

Resized for Boards....

Video: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6518681947496157184
(If you're not logged in to linkedin the playback quality is poor for some reason?)

ScrubsfanChris

And a few of the other side

snotboogie

Was Navigation Square meant to open a few months ago? Does anyone know when phase 1 is set to take in clients?

fonecrusher1

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

and the rumours are that Cork's tower has been rounded down to below 30 floors isnt it?

There's a fair bit of local resistance building on this unfortunately. Its those 'beautiful' stone warehouses you see. The ones that have been sitting there crumbling for decades. They always looked like an eyesore to me!

Does anyone have any further info on the planned tower on the Port of Cork site?

who_me

snotboogie wrote: »

Was Navigation Square meant to open a few months ago? Does anyone know when phase 1 is set to take in clients?

March was the date for completion of construction, and I believe it was handed over for fit-out by then. No idea when Clearstream will actually be moving in.

who_me

Great shots ScrubsfanChris, cheers!

They're a few weeks old mind, Penrose Dock has its second elevator shaft almost complete and the stairwell core starting to go up. And Phase 2 of Navigation Square has its second elevator shaft up and much of the frame in place.

SleetAndSnow

clearstream are planning on moving into NSQ1 next week from what I know (person working there). She said thats the plan anyway but will it work out like that, don't know

snotboogie

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

clearstream are planning on moving into NSQ1 next week from what I know (person working there). She said thats the plan anyway but will it work out like that, don't know

It'll be very interesting to see if they have any other clients lined up. So far it's just Clearstream.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Desks and Chairs in Navigation square now

ScrubsfanChris

who_me wrote: »

Great shots ScrubsfanChris, cheers!

They're a few weeks old mind, Penrose Dock has its second elevator shaft almost complete and the stairwell core starting to go up. And Phase 2 of Navigation Square has its second elevator shaft up and much of the frame in place.

Yeah I know. Kind of have to wait for until they are publicly available to show and that's not up to me

marno21

As per Limerick74 in Infrastructure, CMATS breakfast in the Cork International Hotel on May 24th

https://chamber.corkchamber.ie/events/details/may-business-breakfast-2019-featuring-anne-graham-ceo-national-transport-authority-20822

About time.

snotboogie

marno21 wrote: »

As per Limerick74 in Infrastructure, CMATS breakfast in the Cork International Hotel on May 24th

https://chamber.corkchamber.ie/events/details/may-business-breakfast-2019-featuring-anne-graham-ceo-national-transport-authority-20822

About time.

Is that going to be an announcement? Not seeing that specified in the link

marno21

snotboogie wrote: »

Is that going to be an announcement? Not seeing that specified in the link

I'd imagine so, either then or in the meantime. It'd be a bit of a dampener if they spent an hour telling us all will be revealed in the future.

cantalach

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

There's a fair bit of local resistance building on this unfortunately. Its those 'beautiful' stone warehouses you see. The ones that have been sitting there crumbling for decades. They always looked like an eyesore to me!

But don't most crumbling old buildings look like an eyesore until they are renovated?

Whatever the case, the warehouses are listed and could not be lawfully demolished irrespective of local opposition. They will be renovated and incorporated into any new development. Note that the test bores drilled in connection with the proposed tower were not in the warehouses. They were in between the warehouses and the Port of Cork sign at the very tip of the island.

mrpdap

cantalach wrote: »

Note that the test bores drilled in connection with the proposed tower were not in the warehouses. They were in between the warehouses and the Port of Cork sign at the very tip of the island.

The tower will have to fit into that quite small space?
Is that feasible structurally?

fonecrusher1

cantalach wrote: »

But don't most crumbling old buildings look like an eyesore until they are renovated?

Whatever the case, the warehouses are listed and could not be lawfully demolished irrespective of local opposition. They will be renovated and incorporated into any new development. Note that the test bores drilled in connection with the proposed tower were not in the warehouses. They were in between the warehouses and the Port of Cork sign at the very tip of the island.

They're old stone warehouses now in all fairness but I didn't know they were listed.

I believe there is some sort of local opposition group armed with petition determined to block it. Regardless of the developers intending on being sympathetic to the warehouses. But your right it looks like the tower isn't actually going to be built directly over them requiring partial demolition or causing any impact on their structure.

Which begs the question what is the problem then?! If the developer is going to incorporate these stone buildings into the overall project wheres the beef? And i'm referring specifically to the Port of Cork protection group. It just strikes me as resistance to change more than anything else.

kub

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

They're old stone warehouses now in all fairness but I didn't know they were listed.

I believe there is some sort of local opposition group armed with petition determined to block it. Regardless of the developers intending on being sympathetic to the warehouses. But your right it looks like the tower isn't actually going to be built directly over them requiring partial demolition or causing any impact on their structure.

Which begs the question what is the problem then?! If the developer is going to incorporate these stone buildings into the overall project wheres the beef? And i'm referring specifically to the Port of Cork protection group. It just strikes me as resistance to change more than anything else.

I have no idea of the actual reasons for the objections, but as seems to always the case these days, misinformation and lies no doubt.
People are possibly being told that the existing buildings are being torn down as opposed to being sympathetically renovated

cantalach

mrpdap wrote: »

The tower will have to fit into that quite small space?
Is that feasible structurally?

If the piling goes deep enough, you could go even higher. Think some of the waterside towers in NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc.

fonecrusher1

mrpdap wrote: »

The tower will have to fit into that quite small space?
Is that feasible structurally?

There's a super skinny skyscraper currently under construction in New York called 111 West 57th Street. It will have 82 floors and has a very small footprint. There are many examples all over the world of super tall buildings with very compact foundation areas.

http://111w57.com/

The biggest challenge for the Port of Cork tower is battling the local whingers opposition groups. :pac:

Apogee

mrpdap wrote: »

The tower will have to fit into that quite small space?
Is that feasible structurally?

Source: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1990432&page=5

whisky_galore

kub wrote: »

I have no idea of the actual reasons for the objections, but as seems to always the case these days, misinformation and lies no doubt.
People are possibly being told that the existing buildings are being torn down as opposed to being sympathetically renovated

Very little "sympathetic" restoration in evidence, here it's usually gutting a building and leaving just a facade as a sop to heritage.
Listing doesn't help much, esp with the number of disused listed buildings mysteriously self combusting.

Markcheese

Some places it's just the facade that's listed, abs someplaces it's the full building (look at the pictures a page back!! The difference between what's being conserved on Penrose Quay, and hogan's Quay,
The port of Cork buildings will have to be kept in entirety, (more or less), as far as I know they're all masonry arches, ( they were warehouses for storing bottles and barrels,)

kub

whisky_galore wrote: »

Very little "sympathetic" restoration in evidence, here it's usually gutting a building and leaving just a facade as a sop to heritage.
Listing doesn't help much, esp with the number of disused listed buildings mysteriously self combusting.

Of course there is none in evidence, the buildings are still in situ and are in a state of disrepair.
So I take it you are well aware of this developers plans or lack of for those old crumbling buildings ?
What is it you proposal for these buildings?

[Deleted User]

Got to love the listing support crowd. Would rather see buildings fall to ruin than ANY development incorporating them.

The inside of warehouses, I've not been in these, are often nothing of value and need massive works to be usable spaces. Which is why it's usually just facades which are protected.
Some wonderful works I have seen, on similar buildings, are the old Guinness stores on Bellevue/Rainsford Streets https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3421795,-6.2838845,113m/data=!3m1!1e3

They have some amazing office space inside, open and full of light, but even these needed massive internal works.

Edit: I have also been inside the warehouses inside the brewery walls and they have steel girders almost rusted through and old iron staircases falling down
Difference between developing and letting stand

[Deleted User]

Apogee wrote: »

Source: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1990432&page=5

The life which that development would have driven into the city centre... such a pity it's being pared so far down and still in limbo.

snotboogie

kub wrote: »

I have no idea of the actual reasons for the objections, but as seems to always the case these days, misinformation and lies no doubt.
People are possibly being told that the existing buildings are being torn down as opposed to being sympathetically renovated

Oliver Moran of the Green Party is leading the charge against the development

leahyl

marno21 wrote: »

As per Limerick74 in Infrastructure, CMATS breakfast in the Cork International Hotel on May 24th

https://chamber.corkchamber.ie/events/details/may-business-breakfast-2019-featuring-anne-graham-ceo-national-transport-authority-20822

About time.

Exciting times

Anteayer

snotboogie wrote: »

Oliver Moran of the Green Party is leading the charge against the development

I kind of find it ironic that the Green Party's opposing dense urban development. It's ideal for reducing car-dependency and making the city more livible.

Are they being 'green' or just confusing environmentalism for visual conservatism ?

This development would actually be fully visible from my house and I would quite like looking out at it. I don't really see what the issue is. Most of the hills of the city are that high anyway.

If you consider that the main chimney on the Marina Power station (a very ugly structure in my opinion and one that spewed coal, then oil and the natural gas fumes into the city for decades) is probably significantly higher than the proposed bulling, I don't really see what all the fuss is about.

fonecrusher1

Deleted User wrote: »

Got to love the listing support crowd. Would rather see buildings fall to ruin than ANY development incorporating them

This.

Its a string of old stone warehouses sitting there for decades, unused and rapidly decaying and no sympathetic or restorative work ever carried out, essentially forgotten wasteland. Yet the minute someone shows an interest in the site and plans to absolutely rejuvenate it and make it something really special the listed / historical building brigade assemble despite the developers making it fairly clear in their artists renditions (as shown above) it will be sympathetically incorporated into the overall project and likely restoration completed on them.

But hey I guess someones got to oppose it. Opposition for the sake of opposition.

Looks like the whole project has stalled anyway so thankfully the warehouses will remain in their delightful condition. Phew.