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Where are the conservatives in Ireland?

pablojml

I'm not very familiar with the political parties of Ireland, and would like to ask where or which are the conservative parties in Ireland, not the fake ones, I mean the real conservatives who are for core family values, there are only two genders, a family is a man a woman and children, homosexuality is not a normal lifestyle and can be overcome (not hating it but not promoting it), safe borders, controlled immigration and not massive influx of ilegal immigration, parents are the main educators of children not schools, abortion means killing a baby, rights come from God and not men, not being driven by emotios but by logic, etc etc. Are they extinct? I am finding it really hard to find a political party with such great values. Are there any groups that anyone can join? Regards to all.

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briany

Blueshoe wrote: »

That is a valid point. But if the left are in favour of immigration and they are the majority of the population who in turn vote in pro immigration parties then why wouldn't people on the right blame the left

To say the left are in favour of immigration is far too simplistic. Your problem would appear to be with (a certain section of) the left who are in favour of (uncontrolled / too loose a policy of) immigration from certain countries. I say a certain section because there are those on the left who are sceptical of immigration as well, as insularity and economic protectionism are not strict preserves of the right. So, when you narrow it down to these criteria, I'm not convinced that they exist in such a majority as to vote in, as you call them, pro-immigration parties, and I'm not convinced that so-called pro-immigration parties are voted in on that basis.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Blueshoe wrote: »

You don't make sense. It's not a policy it's a mindset.
We can all co exist peacefully. Everyone is nice etc

Fair enough.

IN which case I chance my original statement to: you think extreme left mindsets are nice welcoming and so on. The idea that very few left-leaning people actually hold said mindsets isn't something you can get your head around.

It's like dealing with a classic social justice warrior: you just can NOT let labels go.

listermint

Blueshoe wrote: »

Do you think Islam is compatible with liberal progressive Ireland?

You and others keep going back to sure that sounds like the Catholic church years ago.
Was that a good thing ? Is that why you say it?

Do you know any Muslims ?

Do you know that there a various forms and flavours inside it .

The same as Catholicism there's a la carte variety's.

Yes I think people of different faiths can live beside each other perfectly fine.

It's when these faiths are used by people who seek land power money and greed is when it becomes a problem.

But sure you know that anyway.

Doubt your ever spoke to , worked with or befriended people of any other faith than your own in your life.

Sheltered.

Blueshoe

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Not relevant to the post I made.

The policies were YOU thinking of when you wrote, "I actually think that most of you on the left are nice welcoming people who see the best in people and believe we can all hold hands and get along but your failings are shortsightedness and gullibility." If you have to ask which ones specifcily, it kind of indicates that you weren't thinking of anything when you wrote it.

Because I know of no such policies that make people think like this other than the ones in your head.

You don't make sense. It's not a policy it's a mindset.
We can all co exist peacefully. Everyone is nice etc

Harry Palmr

Hmm, long standing account largely dormant which spring back to life to decry vaccinations and is now wondering about the right wing, cue new registrations giving it large. It's almost like it was coordinated.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Blueshoe wrote: »

The numbers in Europe are rising and the only people I see complaining about it are those on the right ( who are now called far right because of this stance) .

Not relevant to the post I made.

What 'policies' are you specifically refering to?

The policies were YOU thinking of when you wrote, "I actually think that most of you on the left are nice welcoming people who see the best in people and believe we can all hold hands and get along but your failings are shortsightedness and gullibility." If you have to ask which ones specifcily, it kind of indicates that you weren't thinking of anything when you wrote it.

Because I know of no such policies that make people think like this other than the ones in your head.

Blueshoe

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

The religion? No. The practicioners? Depends on what level of practice.

Hate, discrimination and intolerance are **** off and take their catholic, muslim, athiest, whatever practicioners with them.

No, you think extreme left policies are nice welcoming and so on. The idea that very few left-leaning people actually hold said policies isn't something you can get your head around.

It's like dealing with a classic social justice warrior: you just can NOT let labels go.

The numbers in Europe are rising and the only people I see complaining about it are those on the right ( who are now called far right because of this stance) .

What 'policies' are you specifically refering to?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Blueshoe wrote: »

Do you think Islam is compatible with liberal progressive Ireland?

You and others keep going back to sure that sounds like the Catholic church years ago.
Was that a good thing ? Is that why you say it?

The religion? No. The practicioners? Depends on what level of practice.

Hate, discrimination and intolerance are **** off and take their catholic, muslim, athiest, whatever practicioners with them.

Blueshoe wrote: »

An do you think that they were great times. Let's pretend we are progressive yet invite in people with beliefs from the dark ages.

I actually think that most of you on the left are nice welcoming people who see the best in people and believe we can all hold hands and get along but your failings are shortsightedness and gullibility.
We can't all get along because we are not the same in views, religious beliefs, culture, history and attitude.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1122649/isis-news-latest-terror-france-jihadist-police-elysee-palace

Oh look another one

No, you think extreme left policies are nice welcoming and so on. The idea that very few left-leaning people actually hold said policies isn't something you can get your head around.

It's like dealing with a classic social justice warrior: you just can NOT let labels go.

Blueshoe

briany wrote: »

It's interesting that you're having a go at those naive lefties. That really sums the whole thing up. I could just as well argue that so much of what we might call undesirable immigration as being a product of neo-liberal economics, led by the captains of industry who love the fact that plenty will come to the west to do menial work for next to no money.

But, shur, let's carry on with the right blaming the left, and the left blaming the right, while the money men carry on laughing their heads off at the lot of us.

That is a valid point. But if the left are in favour of immigration and they are the majority of the population who in turn vote in pro immigration parties then why wouldn't people on the right blame the left

briany

Blueshoe wrote: »

An do you think that they were great times. Let's pretend we are progressive yet invite in people with beliefs from the dark ages.

I actually think that most of you on the left are nice welcoming people who see the best in people and believe we can all hold hands and get along but your failings are shortsightedness and gullibility.
We can't all get along because we are not the same in views, religious beliefs, culture, history and attitude.

It's interesting that you're having a go at those naive lefties. That really sums the whole thing up. I could just as well argue that so much of what we might call undesirable immigration as being a product of neo-liberal economics, led by the captains of industry who love the fact that plenty will come to the west to do menial work for next to no money.

But, shur, let's carry on with the right blaming the left, and the left blaming the right, while the money men carry on laughing their heads off at the lot of us.

Blueshoe

stefanovich wrote: »

The catholic church years ago is comparable to very moderate Islam.

An do you think that they were great times. Let's pretend we are progressive yet invite in people with beliefs from the dark ages.

I actually think that most of you on the left are nice welcoming people who see the best in people and believe we can all hold hands and get along but your failings are shortsightedness and gullibility.
We can't all get along because we are not the same in views, religious beliefs, culture, history and attitude.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1122649/isis-news-latest-terror-france-jihadist-police-elysee-palace

Oh look another one

stefanovich

Blueshoe wrote: »

Do you think Islam is compatible with liberal progressive Ireland?

You and others keep going back to sure that sounds like the Catholic church years ago.
Was that a good thing ? Is that why you say it?

The catholic church years ago is comparable to very moderate Islam.

Blueshoe

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Sounds a lot like Ireland in the 70s, 80s and early 90s.

Seeing as Islam is hundreds of years old, they appear to have assimilated just fine. Most of the worst atrocities carried out in Europe in the 20th century were done in the name of socities purporting to be Christian, or in the Soviet Union's case, godless.

It's progressive to discriminate on religious grounds? Now we're sounding like Ireland in the 30s.

I think we're inviting people here of all religious persuasions and none because we've learned more than most that sectarian attitudes lead to a sullen and sorry society, and we wish to be better than that.

Do you think Islam is compatible with liberal progressive Ireland?

You and others keep going back to sure that sounds like the Catholic church years ago.
Was that a good thing ? Is that why you say it?

Blueshoe

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Because your description of Islam could easily be used to describe Catholicism/Christianity. Do you believe Ireland should only allow christians to live there?

The Catholic church is already here and is losing influence consistently. Thankfully

But ignore my point anyway. Usual story

Brian?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So we started off asking why Ireland is not conservative enough and gone on to slaming Islam for being too conservative.

Very narrow window people are being asked to operate in here.

They lack a sense of irony.

Brian?

stefanovich wrote: »

This says it all really. Your classification of people who want immigration control betrays your own ideology.

Hilarious.

I have zero issue with immigration control and am quite happy to hear people’s opinions on it.

It’s the god bothering, anti gay rhetoric that makes them the lunatic fringe not the anti immigration stance.

[Deleted User]

pablojml wrote:

I'm not very familiar with the political parties of Ireland, and would like to ask where or which are the conservative parties in Ireland, not the fake ones, I mean the real conservatives who are for core family values, there are only two genders, a family is a man a woman and children, homosexuality is not a normal lifestyle and can be overcome (not hating it but not promoting it), safe borders, controlled immigration and not massive influx of ilegal immigration, parents are the main educators of children not schools, abortion means killing a baby, rights come from God and not men, not being driven by emotios but by logic, etc etc. Are they extinct? I am finding it really hard to find a political party with such great values. Are there any groups that anyone can join? Regards to all.

Can I ask if it took long for you to overcome your homosexual thoughts and behaviour? Was it easy for you to become straight after being homosexual?

Ruraldweller56

super_furry wrote: »

Well which one of those organisations you mention has a presence in every single village in Ireland? Which organisation controls most of the school our children go to? Which organisation is still wrapped around every part of life in Ireland?

I want to live in the Ireland that Liberals believe we live in.

murphaph

Blueshoe wrote: »

So where do you draw the line with negative views against mass immigration into Europe. Specifically Muslim immigration into Europe?
An opposing opinion is not allowed. Why not?

It is allowed as long as it doesn't incite to hate.

Maybe Irish people know that at one time "Catholic hordes" migrating from our speck of earth to the US were also feared by the largely WASP settlers already there (a wet weekend).

The mass migration of 2015 is over though. A common refugee and migration policy for all EU member states is long overdue.

The vast majority of Muslim migrants in Ireland are of course not refugees to the EU. They have been admitted directly by Ireland because they satisfy Irish third country immigration rules.

BarryD2

Think it's a bit unfair to attack the OP for seeking a party that represents their views, however much you might dislike them. They likely don't need a party that encompasses all those views but a good selection, trending that way. Ditto for the rest of us, no party suits everybody all the time.

The two main parties could equally house the OP, if they're less bothered about the abortion/ gay issues. They'd find plenty of people to agree with them on several of the other issues they raise.

Zaph

pablojml wrote: »

rights come from God and not men

Wtf is that even supposed to mean? Are you expecting Moses to wander up Carrauntoohil and come down with a couple of stone tablets telling us how to behave or something? And what about those of us who aren't religious? Tbh, it sounds like Saudi Arabia is more what you're looking for rather than Ireland.

Moghead

pablojml wrote: »

I'm not very familiar with the political parties of Ireland, and would like to ask where or which are the conservative parties in Ireland, not the fake ones, I mean the real conservatives who are for core family values, there are only two genders, a family is a man a woman and children, homosexuality is not a normal lifestyle and can be overcome (not hating it but not promoting it), safe borders, controlled immigration and not massive influx of ilegal immigration, parents are the main educators of children not schools, abortion means killing a baby, rights come from God and not men, not being driven by emotios but by logic, etc etc. Are they extinct? I am finding it really hard to find a political party with such great values. Are there any groups that anyone can join? Regards to all.

Sounds like you are driven by emotion.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

So we started off asking why Ireland is not conservative enough and gone on to slaming Islam for being too conservative.

Very narrow window people are being asked to operate in here.

listermint

stefanovich wrote: »

This says it all really. Your classification of people who want immigration control betrays your own ideology.

No not really. Your hijacking a previously held economic political outlook and trying to dress up right wing ideology as the same thing.

So no.

It's theft of a political position.

Mr.Nice Guy

Blueshoe wrote: »

Why are we happy to allow Muslims to live here? A religion which is certainly not "liberal" , is against homosexuality , women's rights and has extreme elements which have led to Isis and terrorist attacks around the world.

Sounds a lot like Ireland in the 70s, 80s and early 90s.

Blueshoe wrote:

They do not assimilate to our culture and never will. This is seen all around Europe.

Seeing as Islam is hundreds of years old, they appear to have assimilated just fine. Most of the worst atrocities carried out in Europe in the 20th century were done in the name of socities purporting to be Christian, or in the Soviet Union's case, godless.

Blueshoe wrote:

Why are we inviting them here? It goes against our progressive values.

It's progressive to discriminate on religious grounds? Now we're sounding like Ireland in the 30s.

I think we're inviting people here of all religious persuasions and none because we've learned more than most that sectarian attitudes lead to a sullen and sorry society, and we wish to be better than that.

stefanovich

Brian? wrote: »

crack pot fringe right wingers. .

This says it all really. Your classification of people who want immigration control betrays your own ideology.

Brian?

pablojml wrote: »

I'm not very familiar with the political parties of Ireland, and would like to ask where or which are the conservative parties in Ireland, not the fake ones, I mean the real conservatives who are for core family values, there are only two genders, a family is a man a woman and children, homosexuality is not a normal lifestyle and can be overcome (not hating it but not promoting it), safe borders, controlled immigration and not massive influx of ilegal immigration, parents are the main educators of children not schools, abortion means killing a baby, rights come from God and not men, not being driven by emotios but by logic, etc etc. Are they extinct? I am finding it really hard to find a political party with such great values. Are there any groups that anyone can join? Regards to all.

You’re not talking about conservatives. You’re talking about crack pot fringe right wingers.

Conservatism is traditionally an economic position and a belief in small government. There are many conservatives who had zero issue with Immigration, don’t care what people do in their own bedrooms and believe god should be kept out of public life.

super_furry

stefanovich wrote: »

I'm sorry, that's not giving me the information I require.

I leave North Africa as a 25 year old man. My drug dealing and criminality has caught up with me and it's time to start a new life. Dump my documents and get on a dingy to cross to Europe. 1 mile off shore an NGO boat "rescues" me and transports me safely to Italy. On arrival I give them my details. A fake name and I say I am 17 years old. Now I am classified as a child. Under EU directions I am shipped over to a small village in Ireland.

I wrench my eyes open. Rough grey stone. Grey stone ceiling. My head hurts, and I'm lying on the floor.

I'm staring at the ceiling, and it's rough and grey, and I don't recognize it.

Outside there is an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.

There is a small mailbox here.

A rubber mat saying 'Welcome to Zork!' lies by the door.

Timberrrrrrrr

Blueshoe wrote: »

Ok so.
Ireland is generally a liberal country. We recently voted to allow same sex marriage for example.
Why are we happy to allow Muslims to live here? A religion which is certainly not "liberal" , is against homosexuality , women's rights and has extreme elements which have led to Isis and terrorist attacks around the world.
They do not assimilate to our culture and never will. This is seen all around Europe.

Why are we inviting them here? It goes against our progressive values.
Why is it fair game to have a pop at the Catholic church but not Islam?

Because your description of Islam could easily be used to describe Catholicism/Christianity. Do you believe Ireland should only allow christians to live there?

stefanovich

super_furry wrote: »

I think this should pretty much cover it for you.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/rights_of_residence_in_ireland/

I'm sorry, that's not giving me the information I require.

I leave North Africa as a 25 year old man. My drug dealing and criminality has caught up with me and it's time to start a new life. Dump my documents and get on a dingy to cross to Europe. 1 mile off shore an NGO boat "rescues" me and transports me safely to Italy. On arrival I give them my details. A fake name and I say I am 17 years old. Now I am classified as a child. Under EU directions I am shipped over to a small village in Ireland.