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Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

dowlingm

So there's been quite a bit of discussion of greenways on threads like Western Rail Corridor (Train & Rail Systems) and I was thinking it might be useful to have a thread which pulls together both technical discussion (for example how greenways can co-exist with adjacent roadways or railways) and news (expansions of existing greenways / announcements of new ones)

According to the Connaught Tribune there are moves on getting on Galway-Clifden along the old rail line alignment. Is there anything else starting to reach firm proposals as opposed to discussion?

MOD EDIT: Fantastic Greenway map of Ireland by riddlinrussell here: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1HAHB3jpXV7qgrTHgopH4Zl7-ItDHGEPv&ll=53.4320326010536%2C-8.939188105408448&z=7

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Del.Monte

Muckyboots wrote: »

APB did rule against the Velo cycle promotors who insisted that it was exempt. It isn't. The promotors being a local authority surely knew that but tried to behave like bullies instead. Both you and I know that APB will be ruling on it again, for sure.

It's going to take forever to reach Letterkenny at this rate.

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

It's going to take forever to reach Letterkenny at this rate.

Two rams bucking in a field while the ladies quietly leave - out the gap.

Corca Baiscinn

loyatemu wrote: »

I'm just back from a week in Holland and having seen what they have there, my attitude to pretty much every cycling project here is "just bloody get on with it".

They have cycle paths running through forests, across country between towns and villages, along rivers and canals. As far as I can see, environmental armageddon has not resulted from having cyclists passing nearby to nature

Did you notice that whether going through farmers' fields, along the top of a dyke or along a road every cycling surface was asphalt/concrete? Not an iota of gravel or dust and that doesn't seem to have resulted in environmental armgeddon either

Tigerandahalf

holly8 wrote: »

Planning board rules against Kiltimagh Velorail project.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/planning-board-rules-against-michael-ringbacked-project-38056876.html?fbclid=IwAR2gU1D3obg5FxvLc_xMZC03ULaw3jQNMorDVtpUs2ZNdCf_eVbMKNG208w

Does the velorail project rule out the possibility of a greenway from colooney to tuam?

Corca Baiscinn

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Does the velorail project rule out the possibility of a greenway from colooney to tuam?

Afaik there's an petition asking for the greenway to be run alongside the velorail route butdepending on what happens re planning it may not be necessary. Only a side-issue for now because Mayo co co dont support the Greenway in any case so there's a bigger issue.

Collooney Bellaghy has the support of Sligo Co Co and Milltown/Tuam/Athenry Quiet Man Greenway appears to now have support of Galway Co Co for the feasibility study at least but how one will get from Sligo to Galway without going through Mayo remains a mystery

Tigerandahalf

Why are Mayo Co Co against it when they have several other greenways doing very well?

What sort of clientelle are going to use the velorail - families? Is Kiltimagh the start/end point?

Pete_Cavan

holly8 wrote: »

Planning board rules against Kiltimagh Velorail project.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/planning-board-rules-against-michael-ringbacked-project-38056876.html?fbclid=IwAR2gU1D3obg5FxvLc_xMZC03ULaw3jQNMorDVtpUs2ZNdCf_eVbMKNG208w

The project ran overbudget by €147,000 because of unforeseen problems, such as subsidence to the railway line.

This for a paltry Velorail on a small section of the line. And some still think that the line could be reused as a railway! It clearly has to be entirely rebuilt at a cost of €X00,000,000 and even then it would still have the same meandering route limiting speeds and serving nowhere in particular.

Pete_Cavan

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Why are Mayo Co Co against it when they have several other greenways doing very well?

I assume that the opposition are those near said greenways doing very well who don't want other greenways diluting their success and these delusional people who believe that reinstating the railway is feasible and that it will bring some economic benefits to the area (they are wrong on both counts).

What sort of clientelle are going to use the velorail - families? Is Kiltimagh the start/end point?

"Tourists" apparently - 30,000 of them per year. It will be of little or no use to locals though. According to their website (https://www.ird-kiltimagh.ie/tourism/velorail/) it is 6km either side of Kiltimagh. Of course, the more successful it is, the less enjoyable it will be as someone is going to have to lift the thing off the track when people going in different directions meet. I doubt they will get many repeat visitors.

Tigerandahalf

It doesn't look a good idea. Kiltimagh is also a struggling rural town with little facilities wanted by tourists.

At least a greenway would give the locals a safe place to walk, run and cycle and a safe place for children. That greenway between Colooney and Tuam should be done. It would open up the north west to tourism too.

Tourists would stay longer too if they had a variety of greenways to cycle and could stay in local bnbs reviving rural areas. It is a no brainer really.

riddlinrussell

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

It doesn't look a good idea. Kiltimagh is also a struggling rural town with little facilities wanted by tourists.

At least a greenway would give the locals a safe place to walk, run and cycle and a safe place for children. That greenway between Colooney and Tuam should be done. It would open up the north west to tourism too.

Tourists would stay longer too if they had a variety of greenways to cycle and could stay in local bnbs reviving rural areas. It is a no brainer really.

It seems like a somewhat desperate attempt to 'keep the rails down' if i'm honest, it doesn't hold much hope for a renewal of the railway line especially if it becomes an 'island' of rails between the Quiet Man greenway and the Sligo greenway....

Greenways can still protect a railway alignent from encroachment, but my personal view, as a big fan of rail transit, is that if you want a functional railway in Ireland, build a brand new alignment that can easily be/default dualled and make it suitable for high speed upgrading, the victorian era lines will always struggle to keep up with modern needs.

Sam Russell

I am at a loss as to what a 'velorail' vehicle is.

Is it basically a four wheeled cycle with seating for two or more passengers, each with pedals. This is for use on a single track railway that has rotten sleepers, and rubbish ballast having been not maintained for 50 years.

Now if I am right as above, what happens when Joe and Mary, travelling north, meet Sean and Anne travelling south? Do they lift off their vehicle to allow the other to pass, or do they argue as to who should do that? What happens if one wants to stop for a picnic? Why does it have to be on rails if it is basically a cycle? Surely it would be better on rubber tyres and a tarmac surface - you know - like a green way. If that approach was used, then when J&M met S&A, they just wave to each other as they pass.

It sounds as daft as the cable car in Dublin idea that surfaced during the Celtic Tiger era. Even that had a slight element of sense, just short of utter nonsense.

There is no sense in the velorail idea.

loyatemu

Sam Russell wrote: »

I am at a loss as to what a 'velorail' vehicle is.

you could google it, plenty of pictures there. It's not a new idea, they already exist in (as the name suggests) France.

(this is not in anyway an expression of support for the project)

serfboard

riddlinrussell wrote: »

if you want a functional railway in Ireland, build a brand new alignment that can easily be/default dualled and make it suitable for high speed upgrading, the victorian era lines will always struggle to keep up with modern needs.

Indeed.

Scandalous that the old line between Limerick and Galway was re-built, resulting in a train that is slower than the bus, and that doesnt serve Shannon Airport or Clarinbridge.

marno21

serfboard wrote: »

Indeed.

Scandalous that the old line between Limerick and Galway was re-built, resulting in a train that is slower than the bus, and that doesnt serve Shannon Airport or Clarinbridge.

The benefit cost ratio for the old line was ropey enough without trying to construct a brand new alignment which would have been prohibitive.

Pete_Cavan

Sam Russell wrote: »

Now if I am right as above, what happens when Joe and Mary, travelling north, meet Sean and Anne travelling south? Do they lift off their vehicle to allow the other to pass, or do they argue as to who should do that? What happens if one wants to stop for a picnic? Why does it have to be on rails if it is basically a cycle? Surely it would be better on rubber tyres and a tarmac surface - you know - like a green way. If that approach was used, then when J&M met S&A, they just wave to each other as they pass.

They usually operate on the principle that those on the outward leg of the journey get out of the way of those on the return journey. I don't see how it would be anyway enjoyable and, as I said, the more people it attracts, the more time you spend lifting the bloody thing out of the way. Starting at Kiltimagh and with 6km of track in both directions, I can see a lot of people doing one leg and getting back to Kiltimagh but not bothering with the other leg as it is too much hassle. It is also not a good amenity for those with physical impairments.

Like you say, a greenway would allow for similar type cycles, as well as the rest of the community regardless of physical limitations but the militants here think that those rails are more important than people.

Tigerandahalf

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I wonder would the velorail attract the wrong type too, teenagers bored and acting the maggot on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nztl8UT79Ng

The one above occupies both tracks so I wonder how you operate the traffic both ways? You would have to have a 2nd track in an oval formation. What happens if a group decides to abandon their carriage half way down the line?

Sam Russell

loyatemu wrote: »

you could google it, plenty of pictures there. It's not a new idea, they already exist in (as the name suggests) France.

(this is not in anyway an expression of support for the project)

I did google it and all I got was pictures of four wheel cycles mounted on rails. They appear to have no advantage over similar cycles with rubber wheels that run on tarmac, but have significant disadvantages, like they cannot overtake or get out of the ones coming against them.

I thing Segways would be a better idea.

Tigerandahalf

https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Attraction_Review-g4241714-d4232962-Reviews-Velorail-Eyzerac_Dordogne_Nouvelle_Aquitaine.html

The above is a tripadvisor link with reviews on one in France. It seems to have volunteers running it and the carriages are turned around at either end every hour. A few mentioning the lack of seat belts for children and insurance, etc.

To me it would be a once off thing to do. It sounds noisy and if you come behind a slow carriage it is tough luck.

serfboard

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Attraction_Review-g4241714-d4232962-Reviews-Velorail-Eyzerac_Dordogne_Nouvelle_Aquitaine.html

Here's what it says in describing that attraction:

#1 of 1 things to do in Eyzerac

serfboard

Sam Russell wrote: »

Why does it have to be on rails if it is basically a cycle? Surely it would be better on rubber tyres and a tarmac surface - you know - like a green way. If that approach was used, then when J&M met S&A, they just wave to each other as they pass.

Why does it have to be on rails? Because steel wheels good, rubber tyres bad.

serfboard

serfboard wrote: »

Scandalous that the old line between Limerick and Galway was re-built, resulting in a train that is slower than the bus, and that doesnt serve Shannon Airport or Clarinbridge.

marno21 wrote: »

The benefit cost ratio for the old line was ropey enough without trying to construct a brand new alignment which would have been prohibitive.

Thank you for making my point - which is that if they weren't going to buld a new alignment, the 100 million could have been far better spent on something else.

And I woudn't have had a problem if that 100 million was ring-fenced for rail - Double-tracking Portarlington->Athlone would have been a good place to start spending it, and it would still have served the whole of the West Of Ireland.

Jeez, that is what Velorail is!!!!! I'd assumed it was an actual train. That is absolutely crazy stuff, like straight out of Father Ted.

Reminds me if those drinking, hen party "bikes" you see going around Dublin City Center.

If that is what they are doing, then it should definitely be a greenway. Much more useful for walkers and cyclists and they could rent out multi-person bikes like they have at Malahide Castle:

35925237_1796260517131269_6711104726072557568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=81870f74fc20dbbd0449d3dc98524b9c&oe=5D60CED2

35925237_1796260517131269_6711104726072557568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=81870f74fc20dbbd0449d3dc98524b9c&oe=5D60CED2

Sam Russell

bk wrote: »

Jeez, that is what Velorail is!!!!! I'd assumed it was an actual train. That is absolutely crazy stuff, like straight out of Father Ted.

Reminds me if those drinking, hen party "bikes" you see going around Dublin City Center.

If that is what they are doing, then it should definitely be a greenway. Much more useful for walkers and cyclists and they could rent out multi-person bikes like they have at Malahide Castle:

Those cycles could be exactly what Velorail should be - as they do not have the requirement for a rail. They could even pass one another without having to get off the cycle, lift the cycle off the rail, allow the others to pass, then lift the cycle back on the rail, making sure it is on right, and then get back on. If it was busy, like more than a few, I think it would be a disastrous experience. In a six km stretch, you could only tolerate about three other cycles on the route.

Someone has not done the sums on this.

Del.Monte

First insurance claim will take out the Velorail and then we can have heavy rail all the way from Athenry to Letterkenny.

marno21

South Kerry Greenway looks to be going nowhere fast

https://www.radiokerry.ie/information-proposed-south-kerry-greenway-published-coming-weeks/

riddlinrussell

Added a completed section of Cycleway from Abbeyknockmoy to the M17 completed as part of the M17 works to my map, was driving down that way at the weekend.

If you know of anything of similar quality anywhere in the country, please let me know about them, they may not be "Scenic" but they are separated, good quality cycle links that could provide vital links to towns along a greater greenway and contribute to linking up a fantastic network, for example, this one crosses the route of the proposed 'Quiet man greenway', providing a link to Abbeyknockmoy.

Extension along the route could link in to Claregalway and a potential cycling commute corridor for Galway.

loyatemu

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Added a completed section of Cycleway from Abbeyknockmoy to the M17 completed as part of the M17 works to my map, was driving down that way at the weekend.

If you know of anything of similar quality anywhere in the country, please let me know about them, they may not be "Scenic" but they are separated, good quality cycle links that could provide vital links to towns along a greater greenway and contribute to linking up a fantastic network, for example, this one crosses the route of the proposed 'Quiet man greenway', providing a link to Abbeyknockmoy.

Extension along the route could link in to Claregalway and a potential cycling commute corridor for Galway.

Just looking at the map - the "Kilgobbet greenway" in South Dublin already exists (it's marked as proposed on the map).

It's a series of shared paths through a number of parks, a nice quiet alternative to the N11.

riddlinrussell

loyatemu wrote: »

Just looking at the map - the "Kilgobbet greenway" in South Dublin already exists (it's marked as proposed on the map).

It's a series of shared paths through a number of parks, a nice quiet alternative to the N11.

Thanks! Updated it. An awful lot of these dont get much of a press mention, or just open with zero fanfare, so its very hard to update them without physically going there and checking it out....

serfboard

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Added a completed section of Cycleway from Abbeyknockmoy to the M17 completed as part of the M17 works to my map

Fantastic work on your map. Can I request that you (re-add) the link to it when you're posting about updates to it? I keep forgetting where it is! (And keep forgetting to bookmark it too!).

serfboard wrote: »

Fantastic work on your map. Can I request that you (re-add) the link to it when you're posting about updates to it? I keep forgetting where it is! (And keep forgetting to bookmark it too!).

Yes, perhaps Sam could edit the first post in this thread and add a link to it there. A fantastic resource.