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Parents who continue sending their kids to a school knowing they are being bullied

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How many times do we have to this ,I cannot understand how/why how their parents go to work everyday knowing their kid is being tormented and as if they are powerless to do anything.

"oh well we spoke to the principal and they are keeping an eye on it and they moved desk"

If we have learned anything, it's that schools will never accept or admit to incidents of bullying and will try to blame the kid being bulled i.e. their shy, mild mannered, socially awkward, they need CBT.

If I had kids and they were being bullied, I would just pull them out of school and send them to another one, teach them at home or do something/anything but what I wouldn't do is march them off to be mentally and physical tormented everyday in a school that they are miserable in.

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Church on Tuesday

LirW wrote: »

Bullying comes in a load of nuances, there isn't one kind of bullying.
There's bullying that can be dealt with quite easily, there's bullying that can have a devastating impact and it's not always easy to get the help you need.

It makes me quite angry to read things like "it's part of everyday life, toughen up" when there's just a high profile case in court dealing with the murder of a teenage girl where bullying got horrifyingly out of hand.

Not every child is equipped to deal with every sort of bullying. Bullies often know exactly how to get away with it and in many cases the parents simply don't give a hoot that their child is putting others down.

I went to school in the early 2000s when bullying badly affected me. I was a bit of a quiet child and had good grades but somehow I never fitted in and the other kids took that up. My materials and shoes were stolen on more than one occasion, I was excluded from everything and it went as far as having to go to hospital with a concussion because my peers were throwing hard objects at my head.
Now my mother tried to do something about it and came in on several occasions. Nothing ever happened because the teachers took a dislike to my mother because we were poor and despite her working, she barely made ends meet and often couldn't pay for things in school. So it was somehow tolerated that I wasn't treated well by my peers and even teachers, some just loved to embarrass me on several occasions.
I hated that school so much and no, I don't think this shaped me positively in any way, I just wished I could do without that.

Edit: one of the main perpetrators went on to become a teacher.

Horrific and completely unprofessional of that school, absolutely disgusting.

flowerchild

As a parent, you need to act if your children are being bullied. What works best is to:

1. Document in writing in a letter to the principal each day it happens (if it is above the line of behaviour needing action);

2. Arrange professional psychological support for your child, if needed and you can afford;

3. Do not speak to the other parent or child;

4. Do not go to a meeting at the school since this generally changes nothing, costs you wages, gives the school an illusion of action even though they have done nothing, and is an opportunity for them to indicate you/your child are the problems/these things happen etc etc;

5. Do not raise your voice, yell at or threaten school staff;

6. Be loving and supportive to your child, encourage them to talk with you as soon as they get home, shower them with love then shift their attention to something else fun while you write. Do not imply they are weak.

This system really does work. Stops bullying in its tracks and prevents you as a parent being accused of being a bully as you protect your child.

It’s all over within a week.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

You're simply just looking for an argument.

I'm 'accepting' of the fact that bullying can and will happen. If you think bullying can be eradicated from the human condition then you are frankly deluded and painfully naive.

QED

Now, I have very clearly in my original post stated that schools should have a zero tolerance approach to bullying and indeed also the workplace and that in severe cases the child should be removed. In ideal scenarios the bully should be removed rather than the victim of bullying.

In fact I'm of the largely unpopular opinion that those who seek to disrupt other students should be tossed out of school altogether and made learn a trade or something after the age of 16. But that's another debate for another day.

Contradicts your earlier statement, i.e. victims "should just deal with it".

I plan on becoming a teacher in the near future. I can assure you bullying will not be tolerated in my classroom.

So you won't be relying on the kids to just "deal with it"?

So now that I have helpfully condensed my previous posts for you, where is your viable evidence of my 'condoning' bullying?

Saying that kid should just deal with it and that it's always happened. Answered this before.

Some of your statements did condone bullying, as has been demonstrated. The fact that some don't, just brings me back to my original point that you are contradicting yourself.

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I never once said that.

If the child is the kind that can't fight back(verbally I may add) and if your school can't or won't get rid of the bully, take that child out of the school then or home school them.

Most kids who go to school are going to have unpleasant things said or happen to them at some stage in their schooling. This is a fact folks.

It happens in the adult world too.

If a child has to run to their parents over every little thing in school then the child is on a hiding to nothing in their later adult life.

Schools have a legal responsibility to create a safe environment; and bullying is not something that needs to happen so that the child can learn something from it about how to adjust to when it happens in adult life (and yes, that IS what you are saying). If that was the case, why would you stop it from happening in your classroom??

(Hypothetical question)

Gimme A Pound

VinLieger wrote: »

Did i say it was impossible? Its simply very very difficult

It's not. When it's gone too far, you take the kid out for their safety and mental wellbeing, and work it out afterwards. Where there's a will there's a way. They'll be behind in their schoolwork anyway, but at least without the additional damage of bullying.

This of course would be after exploring all the other avenues. I agree it's not a decision to be taken lightly.

Danzy

Athena Wooden Succotash wrote: »

How many times do we have to this ,I cannot understand how/why how their parents go to work everyday knowing their kid is being tormented and as if they are powerless to do anything.

"oh well we spoke to the principal and they are keeping an eye on it and they moved desk"

If we have learned anything, it's that schools will never accept or admit to incidents of bullying and will try to blame the kid being bulled i.e. their shy, mild mannered, socially awkward, they need CBT.

If I had kids and they were being bullied, I would just pull them out of school and send them to another one, teach them at home or do something/anything but what I wouldn't do is march them off to be mentally and physical tormented everyday in a school that they are miserable in.

Depending on the circumstances but your approach sounds like being a disaster for the child.

Cryptopagan

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Kids have to learn how to fend for themselves in the world.
Supported by their parents of course.
You can't just take them out of school or remove them from confrontation.
Life is tough

What, kids need to fend for themselves against bullies, because they need to learn about confrontation or something? That is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read on here.

Feisar

Hal3000 wrote: »

Schools are the same as the judiciary here. Both are afraid to tackle the issue. Principal's have no backbone in dealing with this. Bullying should be immediate expulsion

However can bullying be proven beyond reasonable doubt like a criminal case?

LirW

Bullying comes in a load of nuances, there isn't one kind of bullying.
There's bullying that can be dealt with quite easily, there's bullying that can have a devastating impact and it's not always easy to get the help you need.

It makes me quite angry to read things like "it's part of everyday life, toughen up" when there's just a high profile case in court dealing with the murder of a teenage girl where bullying got horrifyingly out of hand.

Not every child is equipped to deal with every sort of bullying. Bullies often know exactly how to get away with it and in many cases the parents simply don't give a hoot that their child is putting others down.

I went to school in the early 2000s when bullying badly affected me. I was a bit of a quiet child and had good grades but somehow I never fitted in and the other kids took that up. My materials and shoes were stolen on more than one occasion, I was excluded from everything and it went as far as having to go to hospital with a concussion because my peers were throwing hard objects at my head.
Now my mother tried to do something about it and came in on several occasions. Nothing ever happened because the teachers took a dislike to my mother because we were poor and despite her working, she barely made ends meet and often couldn't pay for things in school. So it was somehow tolerated that I wasn't treated well by my peers and even teachers, some just loved to embarrass me on several occasions.
I hated that school so much and no, I don't think this shaped me positively in any way, I just wished I could do without that.

Edit: one of the main perpetrators went on to become a teacher.

Church on Tuesday

Hyzepher wrote: »

This is one of the most naive statements i've ever seen. Kids are bullied/singled out for a reason and for the most part that reason is that they are the types of kids that find it hard to fight back.

Not all kids have the capacity to "deal" with bullying and to state that the onus is on them to "adapt" to the bullying is ridiculous and actually dangerous.

I never once said that.

If the child is the kind that can't fight back(verbally I may add) and if your school can't or won't get rid of the bully, take that child out of the school then or home school them.

Most kids who go to school are going to have unpleasant things said or happen to them at some stage in their schooling. This is a fact folks.

It happens in the adult world too.

If a child has to run to their parents over every little thing in school then the child is on a hiding to nothing in their later adult life.

Church on Tuesday

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Firstly, I'd argue against your word of the use of "fact"; secondly, fact is irrelevant. You are accepting of the concept of bullying and justifying it be saying it's always happened. That is the very definition of condoning.

You're simply just looking for an argument.

I'm 'accepting' of the fact that bullying can and will happen. If you think bullying can be eradicated from the human condition then you are frankly deluded and painfully naive.

Now, I have very clearly in my original post stated that schools should have a zero tolerance approach to bullying and indeed also the workplace and that in severe cases the child should be removed. In ideal scenarios the bully should be removed rather than the victim of bullying.

In fact I'm of the largely unpopular opinion that those who seek to disrupt other students should be tossed out of school altogether and made learn a trade or something after the age of 16. But that's another debate for another day.

I plan on becoming a teacher in the near future. I can assure you bullying will not be tolerated in my classroom.

So now that I have helpfully condensed my previous posts for you, where is your viable evidence of my 'condoning' bullying?

iamwhoiam

The victim blaming has to stop . It seems the victim in many cases is removed while the bullies carry on and suffer no consequences.

Hyzepher

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I don't condone bullying.

It's a fact of life. Bullying has been going on since the dawn of mankind. It's essential that kids develop a thick skin and a toughness, otherwise how are they going to strike out on their own in life?

Ideally you kick the bully out of the school in severe cases. But most cases of bullying aren't severe, hence the need to toughen up a little and give as good back.

This is one of the most naive statements i've ever seen. Kids are bullied/singled out for a reason and for the most part that reason is that they are the types of kids that find it hard to fight back.

Not all kids have the capacity to "deal" with bullying and to state that the onus is on them to "adapt" to the bullying is ridiculous and actually dangerous.

VinLieger

Walter Rough Nag wrote: »

My friend did, out of a duty of care to her son whose mental wellbeing was concerning her. It's not like he was benefitting academically anyway.

Did i say it was impossible? Its simply very very difficult and not a simple decision and action as the OP seems to think or is implying

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

There is a big difference between was is accepted fact and condoning something.

Firstly, I'd argue against your word of the use of "fact"; secondly, fact is irrelevant. You are accepting of the concept of bullying and justifying it be saying it's always happened. That is the very definition of condoning.

Church on Tuesday

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Kind of contradicting yourself here.

Saying it's "been going on since the damn of Mankind" is most certainly condoning it.

There is a big difference between was is accepted fact and condoning something.

Church on Tuesday

Walter Rough Nag wrote: »

That's the ideal but if the kid is on their own against a gang, with zero backup from either other children or the school... well I don't like those odds.

Yup, in which case in a severe scenario like that, it's best to take the kid out.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I don't condone bullying.

It's a fact of life. Bullying has been going on since the dawn of mankind. It's essential that kids develop a thick skin and a toughness, otherwise how are they going to strike out on their own in life?

Kind of contradicting yourself here.

Saying it's "been going on since the damn of Mankind" is most certainly condoning it.

Gimme A Pound

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I don't condone bullying.

It's a fact of life. Bullying has been going on since the dawn of mankind. It's essential that kids develop a thick skin and a toughness, otherwise how are they going to strike out on their own in life?

Ideally you kick the bully out of the school in severe cases. But most cases of bullying aren't severe, hence the need to toughen up a little and give as good back.

That's the ideal but if the kid is on their own against a gang, with zero backup from either other children or the school... well I don't like those odds.

Gimme A Pound

VinLieger wrote: »

Hilarious that you think its that simple and easy to just move a child from school to school

My friend did, out of a duty of care to her son whose mental wellbeing was concerning her. It's not like he was benefitting academically anyway.

Calltocall

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

I find at primary level the worst type of bullying is social exclusion. Bullies are often smart and know that if they physically bully another child they will be rumbled in no time. Instead they use their social status to ensure that their target is excluded from games and from having friends.

This is very difficult to deal with as it’s virtually impossible to catch the bully in the act and they will strenuously deny the allegations if questioned. It’s also not treated as seriously as physical aggression even though it is arguably much more damaging.

I have to agree, the scars of exclusion last far longer than physical wounds, it’s a horrible thing to do, kids can be very cruel but from my own experience when I was younger my best form of defence was to confront the bully head on, I got in a few scuffles and came out the worst but it did diffuse it, once I was having bullying problems years ago in school instigated by one ringleader who tormented me for months, spat on my head etc when going down stairs in front of him just a horrible little ****, I eventually broke down and didn’t want to go back to school, I told my older brother about it and one day he waited outside the school for this lad and two of his friends, my brother threatened him and put the fear of god into him, I don’t know exactly what he said to him but I never had a problem again, I know people will gasp at that as a suggestion but I had a much easier life after it.

marieholmfan

Fine the headmaster and expel the bullies.

Church on Tuesday

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Depends on how you define "deal with it" - a lot of kids have delt with it in a somewhat serious and often terminal way.

When you say developing "resilience", this sounds a bit like condoning the bullying to me: as long as its someone else's kid being bullied, who cares?

If you want to sort out bullying, you deal with the bully. Not the victim.

I don't condone bullying.

It's a fact of life. Bullying has been going on since the dawn of mankind. It's essential that kids develop a thick skin and a toughness, otherwise how are they going to strike out on their own in life?

Ideally you kick the bully out of the school in severe cases. But most cases of bullying aren't severe, hence the need to toughen up a little and give as good back.

The_Honeybadger

I find at primary level the worst type of bullying is social exclusion. Bullies are often smart and know that if they physically bully another child they will be rumbled in no time. Instead they use their social status to ensure that their target is excluded from games and from having friends.

This is very difficult to deal with as it’s virtually impossible to catch the bully in the act and they will strenuously deny the allegations if questioned. It’s also not treated as seriously as physical aggression even though it is arguably much more damaging.

Charles Ingles

I believe the children are the future,
We should teach them well them well and let them lead the way

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Bottom line is that in most schools there will be some kind of aggro of a surface level. Kids need to learn how to deal with this and develop resilience because they will need those skills in the real world. It's a kind of unofficial subject on the school curriculum in a way.

Depends on how you define "deal with it" - a lot of kids have delt with it in a somewhat serious and often terminal way.

When you say developing "resilience", this sounds a bit like condoning the bullying to me: as long as its someone else's kid being bullied, who cares?

If you want to sort out bullying, you deal with the bully. Not the victim.

Floppybits

This is the biggest fear I have for my daughter when she goes to school. From reading things here it always seems to be the victim of the bully that needs to find alternative schools, what ever happens to the bully? Is there any stigma of being labelled a bully?

There seems to be no consequences for the bully, a friends kid has just started in secondary school and she says the things that she has to do to check that her daughter is not being bullied or doing the bullying is a full time job. She said the social media is a nightmare.

Church on Tuesday

It's the schools responsibility to have zero tolerance approach to bullying. If that isn't or won't be the case (and in a lot of cases that is not the case, pride comes before the fall with a lot of schools) then it's the parents responsibility to find a new school for the child in severe cases.

If an adult is severely bullied in the workplace, which does happen, he or she will leave.

Bottom line is that in most schools there will be some kind of aggro of a surface level. Kids need to learn how to deal with this and develop resilience because they will need those skills in the real world. It's a kind of unofficial subject on the school curriculum in a way.

Apiarist

Athena Wooden Succotash wrote: »

If I had kids and they were being bullied, I would just pull them out of school and send them to another one....

Sure you would. If you had children and a ready access to schools who are just eager to get your kid at a moment's notice. You do know that some parents enroll their child into their preferred school as soon as the child is born? Do you think you would just walk into any school and they'd say, 'sure, your kid can start tomorrow'?

Let me give you a choice -- work with the principal to hopefully deal with the bulling in the current school, or leave your job to stay at home with your child until the next academic year when there is a space in a school 30 minutes drive away?

VinLieger

Athena Wooden Succotash wrote: »

If I had kids and they were being bullied, I would just pull them out of school and send them to another one, teach them at home or do something/anything but what I wouldn't do is march them off to be mentally and physical tormented everyday in a school that they are miserable in.

Hilarious that you think its that simple and easy to just move a child from school to school

[Deleted User]

Schools have to have an anti-bullying policy yes I do think thy should be move if it is not resolved however they sould give the school some chance to sort it.