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Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

goz83

Mod Note: I've discussed with site admins, due to the current legal situation recommendations cannot be made for use of electric scooters on public roads in Ireland, but can be made for use on private property. However, we will allow discussion of e-scooters for purchase for use on private property, and other jurisdictions such as France/Germany where they are legal for use. This restriction will be lifted as soon as the legal situation changes, which will hopefully be soon.

I was thinking of getting one of those xiaomi m365 folding scooters to cover the last 5 kilometres of the journey as I come into the city and traffic gets mad. I am looking for peoples experiences with them.

I understand they are in a bit of a legal grey area, but you need to push this scooter to get going, so technically it doesn’t operate on mechanical power alone which is what the rsa site mentions as the definition of an mpv.

I’ll be travelling about 15km each way from urban to city. Due to a back injury, I can’t spend an hour stuck in traffic twice per day. I can’t tolerate public transport and it would be much more expensive (over €100 per month, compared to about €5 per month in my Leaf and m365).

So, my plan would be to drive about 10km and park the car before hitting the city centre. Parking would be free as I would be well outside the cc. I would then scoot the rest of the way to my destination and do the reverse on my return journey. I wouldn’t be stuck in traffic for too long and the range of the scooter should easily cover the return journey without destination charging. The scooter will cost around €400 to buy and claims 30km per charge...I am expecting 15.

What do you think?

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zg3409

beauf wrote: »

I'll do it again for the hard of reading...

beauf wrote: »

...
If the scooters get legalised they will be similar to electric bicycles to which these specific rules do not apply.

It was mentioned that a cyclist's was stopped for lights. Also about the correct cycling lights. I'm asking for about the fourth time where are the requirements for a bicycle.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/vehicle_standards/lighting_of_bicycles_in_ireland.html

I think the flashing type were also legalised a while back. You can pick up a set of lights in any pound shop.

griffdaddy

I don't have a link to hand but that quote from Charlie Flanagan yesterday was promising. He basically said they seem like a good idea and that he'd be talking to minister Ross about it this week or next. The other possibility is that the EU introduce a micromobility directive or regulation and Ireland is forced to cop the fck on. That would also be a good outcome.

beauf

Enough of the strawman (intentionally replying to a deliberately misrepresented proposition)... While we're at it.

beauf

I'll do it again for the hard of reading...

beauf wrote: »

...
If the scooters get legalised they will be similar to electric bicycles to which these specific rules do not apply.

It was mentioned that a cyclist's was stopped for lights. Also about the correct cycling lights. I'm asking for about the fourth time where are the requirements for a bicycle.

beauf

I know and qualified what I said for exactly those reasons.

prinzeugen

beauf wrote: »

That's for motor bikes and cars etc....

If the scooters get legalised they will be similar to electric bicycles to which these specific rules do not apply.

You are presuming that. And you linked to the rules of the road from the UK.

Not that the rules of the road are law anyway. The road traffic acts are.

The minimum standards in Ireland for a 2 wheeled MPV are, fixed low beam and high beam headlight, rear light, rear lit registration plate light, and brake light.

Mirrors and indicators must be in working order where fitted. The lights MUST be capable of staying illuminated when the engine is stopped.

beauf

This might help...

Some of this is rules of the road, highway code not specifically legally defined...

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/bike-light-laws-in-the-uk-what-you-need-to-know/

beauf

Man this stupid multi quote on the touch version of boards...grrrr.

beauf

prinzeugen wrote: »

beauf wrote: »

It's not a legal requirement. So by proper you mean basically something you've made up.

I don't disagree that some lights need to be better regulated. But it's not correct to call it improper or incorrect if they meet the current requirements.

The Garda will pull you for incorrect or distracting lighting though. I witnessed a cyclist getting pulled on Camden St in early December that had one of those LED lights that give a camera flash every second. Aimed up not down so was blinding everyone near it.

Scooter type MPVs will need to meet minimum Irish standards for a MPV. They need a proper headlight. A LED light for a cycle wont cut it regardless of how bright it is.

Again what's incorrect or improper lighting for a scooter or a bicycle. Can you give a legal definition?

beauf

ED E wrote: »

beauf wrote: »

Again it's just stuff you've made up.

While some of it might be reasonable some of it is not.

Can't really claim something doesn't meet the standard for lights when there is no standard for it .

No, its not.

Directive 2009/67/EC of the European Parliament.

That's for motor bikes and cars etc....

If the scooters get legalised they will be similar to electric bicycles to which these specific rules do not apply.

ED E

beauf wrote: »

Again it's just stuff you've made up.

While some of it might be reasonable some of it is not.

Can't really claim something doesn't meet the standard for lights when there is no standard for it .

No, its not.

Directive 2009/67/EC of the European Parliament.

prinzeugen

beauf wrote: »

It's not a legal requirement. So by proper you mean basically something you've made up.

I don't disagree that some lights need to be better regulated. But it's not correct to call it improper or incorrect if they meet the current requirements.

The Garda will pull you for incorrect or distracting lighting though. I witnessed a cyclist getting pulled on Camden St in early December that had one of those LED lights that give a camera flash every second. Aimed up not down so was blinding everyone near it.

Scooter type MPVs will need to meet minimum Irish standards for a MPV. They need a proper headlight. A LED light for a cycle wont cut it regardless of how bright it is.

beauf

ED E wrote: »

...

White on front between X and X off the ground.
Red on rear between X and X off the ground.
Directional indicators in amber with similar positional requirements.

Again it's just stuff you've made up.

While some of it might be reasonable some of it is not.

Can't really claim something doesn't meet the standard for lights when there is no standard for it .

beauf

pablo128 wrote: »

beauf wrote: »

No one will have correct lighting?

What's correct lighting.

A dipped beam for a start. I've been blinded by more cyclists than anyone else lately.

It's not a legal requirement. So by proper you mean basically something you've made up.

I don't disagree that some lights need to be better regulated. But it's not correct to call it improper or incorrect if they meet the current requirements.

ED E

beauf wrote: »

No one will have correct lighting?

What's correct lighting.

White on front between X and X off the ground.
Red on rear between X and X off the ground.
Directional indicators in amber with similar positional requirements.

pablo128

beauf wrote: »

No one will have correct lighting?

What's correct lighting.

A dipped beam for a start. I've been blinded by more cyclists than anyone else lately.

beauf

punisher5112 wrote: »

...
Once insured, licence, correct lighting etc which nobody will have on a bicycle or a battery scooter.

No one will have correct lighting?

What's correct lighting.

punisher5112

...Ghost... wrote: »

You can legally ride a moped at 16 which can reach 80kph and are often in, or straddling the cycle lanes. I'm not suggesting anyone rides at 50kph in a cycle lane. I'm quite happy trundling along at 15-20 myself.

Once insured, licence, correct lighting etc which nobody will have on a bicycle or a battery scooter.

...Ghost...

Lumen wrote: »

16 year olds in cycle lanes on 50kph scooters.

This is a brilliant idea with no obvious downsides.

You can legally ride a moped at 16 which can reach 80kph and are often in, or straddling the cycle lanes. I'm not suggesting anyone rides at 50kph in a cycle lane. I'm quite happy trundling along at 15-20 myself.

punisher5112

There is a girl commuting around ranelagh/Camden st on a mountain bike type bike with huge tyres. She doesn't pedal at all on it and no lights or reflectors visible from behind as her seat is actually below the rear wheel.

This type of bike is illegal also.

beauf

How about a merc?

http://allbikeprice.com/smart-escooter-price/

Lumen

16 year olds in cycle lanes on 50kph scooters.

This is a brilliant idea with no obvious downsides.

beauf

How about the Scrooser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MM8ogn3JEw

More here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtrUCNczzvE

eagerv

...Ghost... wrote: »

There is a risk (however small) that the scooter could be seized and you could be fined and brought to court. I only scoot short distances in DCC and I pass Gardai often. I have not had any problems yet.

I agree that 25km/h is fast enough. The Xiaomi M365 is the most popular one on the road and the average person will only achieve a speed of 25km/h. I find my e-scooter to be very handy and use a quality U-Lock to secure it if I can't take it indoors with me.

Expect a real life range of 15km to avoid any disappointment.

15km would be plenty for me.
The convenience of not locking away in the bike shed would be handy. Also bring into office and fold up behind door would save locking it up.

Saw an older couple late last summer get off their yacht in Kilmore Quay with a scooter each and go off exploring.:)

...Ghost...

There is a risk (however small) that the scooter could be seized and you could be fined and brought to court. I only scoot short distances in DCC and I pass Gardai often. I have not had any problems yet.

I agree that 25km/h is fast enough. The Xiaomi M365 is the most popular one on the road and the average person will only achieve a speed of 25km/h. I find my e-scooter to be very handy and use a quality U-Lock to secure it if I can't take it indoors with me.

Expect a real life range of 15km to avoid any disappointment.

eagerv

I would love one to be honest.
I have been holding off buying mainly due to the legal implications.

My commute is on a very quiet road where I would rarely meet another car or person. Presently I use an E Bike, weather permitting, but the scooter would be more convenient.

I would imagine that if or when they are legalised speed will be max 25kph which IMO is fast enough.

pablo128

If you hit a pothole at 30 kmh on one of those, you're getting hurt.

Brian201888

This is just going to be another thread of people arguing the legality, leave that nonsense to the other thread and have this just be discussion of scooters

zilog_jones

I'd like to see some clear legislation on these, as the current laws do not suit and are just being flouted anyway.

I'd say 35 km/h is probably fast enough for these yokes. And they certainly shouldn't be on footpaths, which I've occasionally seen.

...Ghost...

Let's discuss electric scooters, e-boards, e-unicycles here. The other thread has gone way off topic and would be unhelpful to most people searching for information. For the purpose of reasoned discussion, the following assumptions should be adhered to:

1) All of these electric micro transport vehicles are considered MPVs and are not legal for use in public places.

2) All vehicles discussed have a max speed of 35km/h.

3) Riders are over 16 years of age.

4) The same rules which apply to a bicyclist apply to e-ride users.

This is not a discussion about electrically assisted bicycles, or petrol powered scooters. Please keep the discussion to what is being used by the majority of riders, rather than the exceptions which can reach high speeds in low seconds.

Most of us want to see these e-rides (especially the scooters) legislated for. Hopefully this thread can help people make up their minds about these micro transport options.

My view is that these micro transport vehicles reduce congestion and are much better than having cars in the city. They should be encouraged, rather than seized and the owners being called menaces by the Mayor.

I would recommend the following rules:

All e-rides up to 50km/h should be allowed on cycle lanes and the road where no cycle lane is present. Riders must be over the age of 16 and carry proof of age if there is any doubt. Riders must ensure they can be seen at night. Front and rear lights should be at 800mm from the ground and may be mounted on the rider. Riders must have insurance to to use an e-ride.The insurance one is questionable. I think anyone using a vehicle on the road should pay a small insurance premium, but I know that's not a popular subject when it comes to encouraging cycling.

All input is welcome.