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Is work place bullying common and what are your experiences with it?

freshpopcorn

I have seen two cases in the news lately where men have committed suicide and they were being bullied at work according to their families.

At the moment I work on the family farm. So, we have the occasional argument but I don't think bullying happens.(In my situation).
However when I did work in hotels/restaurants and at college I saw a good bit of it. It was mixture of people trying to get ahead and some people just liked mocking/putting people down.
I do think work place bullying can be hard to prove. It's really one persons word against another's and it can be hard to pin it down. Even with people taking notes of incidents/etc.
I have heard of one woman and she was a bully at work and she used always try and get her colleagues in trouble.

Is work place bullying common and what are your experiences with it?

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[Deleted User]

Passive aggressive behaviour is a regular occurrence, I don't validate it.

EmmetSpiceland

Yes, it’s common enough. There are some horrible people promoted into management positions who have no business being there but there are also those out there who feel that being expected to do work is a form of bullying.

chrissb8

A new person was hired in our place and started talking to our boss about how one of the loyal staff members was looking for a job and had gone for interviews.

This loyal staff member is in the throws of organising a wedding and is not moving anywhere for anytime yet and ultimately ended up saying to the new woman, in passing, as you do that she wants to work with animals in the future and my boss knows this already. My boss rang said loyal staff member and she had to explain it was all lies as she wasn't looking for a new job or went to any interviews.

No idea why the new person was making up lies, anyway she was told she could forget about continuing on in our place or even her probation and sent her packing. She was a snake from the get go and I'm glad my boss knew what was up right away. Someone like that is just going to push and bully as they can't function as a normal social person. Pathetic if it wasn't so sad. No wait it is just pure pathetic.

Mr. Incognito

I work in law.

I also volunteer in employment in FLAC centres.

Its very common. There are a lot of large cases.

In my experience it is a huge problem in the public sector as no one can be fired and HR are not very good at dealing with it and in fact can make it much much worse essentially blaming the victim which exaserbates the problem.

gaelwave

Scum who prey on the weak.

kravmaga

Just like in the school playground, Bullying continues into adult life and in the workplace , it goes on in all sectors of society, public and private sectors

Always Tired

IME it's worse in Ireland than in the other 2 countries I've worked in, by far. Seen other people get a terrible time, and had some managers try it on me, when I stood up to them I was either fired or hours cut or something like that.

Irish society has a very ingrained sense of 'you must kiss the feet of those in authority' and people get massive power trips if they become the assistant to the assistant manager's dog's secretary. I guess it's the old Catholicism.

If it happens to you, write down exactly what is said/happens and times and dates. Keep the log updated as it will be your only ally and best evidence. Don't expect HR to help, they're there to protect the employer, not you. And don't expect any other employees to have your back, most likely when push comes to shove they will leave you swinging in the wind. Big reason the bullying is so rife in Ireland is that the workers have no balls and won't stick up for themselves, they'll complain but when it comes down to actually taking action they won't want to know, they will be happy to let you stick your neck out while they save their own.

tritium

Yes I think it’s pretty common. Gaslighting, put downs and generally trying to belittle other employees to build yourself up are all things I’ve seen across a variety of industries. Sadly it’s very common in management and senior management, where in many cases a business is far less likely to actually take action against it

ArnoldJRimmer

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Yes, it’s common enough. There are some horrible people promoted into management positions who have no business being there but there are also those out there who feel that being expected to do work is a form of bullying.

Agree with this. There are some people out there who seem to take joy in making others miserable. The worst case I saw was from a junior employee bullying her manager on a daily basis, but getting away with it as Daddy was high up in the company. And her manager was both too embarrassed and too nice a person to pursue a complaint

But I've also worked with some absolutely useless ****s who believe that any form of instruction or criticism is bullying, and run to HR at the drop of a hat

mad muffin

Yes very common… when I’m around.

Tacklebox

mad muffin wrote: »

Yes very common… when I’m around.

Is that your good self Brian

James Bond Junior

Extremely common in schools amongst teachers and impossible to stamp out. There is no HR worth talking about either in which to take a complaint to.

Tacklebox

tritium wrote: »

Yes I think it’s pretty common. Gaslighting, put downs and generally trying to belittle other employees to build yourself up are all things I’ve seen across a variety of industries. Sadly it’s very common in management and senior management, where in many cases a business is far less likely to actually take action against it

Oddly these bullies are either quite attractive looking or as rough as road kill on a wet morning....

freshpopcorn

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Extremely common in schools amongst teachers and impossible to stamp out. There is no HR worth talking about either in which to take a complaint to.

I've heard of so many teachers being bullied at work.
Mainly because one teacher puts in a big effort to do something and they get jealous!

James Bond Junior

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I've heard of so many teachers being bullied at work.
Mainly because one teacher puts in a big effort to do something and they get jealous!

Huge rivalries can develop along with cliques and a heavily tipped gender balance thrown in means they can be pretty toxic environments. That said I've made friends for life on school staffs I've worked on so it's not all bad.

Your Face

Yes it's common and no, nothing will be done about it.

[Deleted User]

Always Tired wrote: »

If it happens to you, write down exactly what is said/happens and times and dates. Keep the log updated as it will be your only ally and best evidence. Don't expect HR to help, they're there to protect the employer, not you. And don't expect any other employees to have your back, most likely when push comes to shove they will leave you swinging in the wind. Big reason the bullying is so rife in Ireland is that the workers have no balls and won't stick up for themselves, they'll complain but when it comes down to actually taking action they won't want to know, they will be happy to let you stick your neck out while they save their own.

This. It's absolutely imperative that people note everything - dates, times, locations, witnesses. I would add: note where the cctvs are around the premises, and be aware that there are often cctvs on a premises whose location is only known to senior or security people.

Keep your office or whatever door open and always try to avoid being alone with the person. Move the 'Record' button to the front of your phone and press it if said person approaches (whether it will be permissible or not to enter it in a court of law is not relevant at this stage; you will be able to play it for more important people so that they understand what's happening). Similarly, if it's necessary and you can discreetly have the camera on your laptop recording, go for it. The employer has a legal duty to provide a safe working environment and you have a legal right to work free from fear, threats, etc.

Lastly, in my experience it is not true that there's some Irish cultural worldview where everybody keeps their heads down. If you really need the job and your position is not secure, this may well be the best course of action for you. However, plenty of people in secure positions in the workplace have no problem keeping an eye out for more vulnerable colleagues. Bullies have patterns, and they choose their targets. Senior management very often are aware of past behaviour because there have been previous complaints. In every workplace, the bully will have enemies who'll be delighted to see their destruction. Workplaces are not some monolithic entity. Talk to people and you'll get a feel for past behaviour, the politics of the company/organisation, and if you keep asking the right questions names of previous victims. A union representative is often a repository of information in this regard. If anybody remembers the Kate Fitzgerald suicide back in 2011, following a piece she wrote about being bullied at work, very shortly after her death another employee's claim of bullying by a manager in the same firm was quickly settled. A coincidence? Be assured you're not alone and that there are people who are at the stage in their careers where they'd be keen to settle scores by helping you. There are still, despite the cynics, also very many people who genuinely revile bullies and would feel ethically compelled to help you. Record everything.

Snow Garden

Very common in US multinationals. So many people stupidly buy into the Corporate Dream with the promises of band/title promotions and bonuses and payrises whilst unknowingly giving their soul and the best part of their lives to Corporations and managers that do not care about them or their families.

These people are working 50+ hours a week, checking/sending emails in the evenings and weekends and getting so stressed that they (a) don't notice they are being bullied and (b) don't notice they are bullying others in order to climb that magical corporate ladder....

The Americans love the Irish because they buy into the Corporate nonsense hook, line and sinker. Something to do with our colonial past methinks. They don't get the same obedience from mainland Europe, India, Mexico, Malaysia, China etc.

petes

Reckon I got lucky, was in one place for 8 years and 11 in current job. Haven't seen any of it!

JupiterKid

Endured horrendous bullying from my boss about a decade ago...

...led to me having a complete breakdown. Took a very long time to recover from. Rebuilt my life and career since.

I still have anger at what happened but he did get his comeuppance.

IAMAMORON

It is everywhere, it always has been, it always will be. Bullying is a fact of life. Everyone goes through it. I learnt how to deal with bullies when I was in school. If you do not stand up to a bully your done. That is what they do, they bully.

I have a degree in Business Management. At no stage did I ever study workplace bullying until I started working. You deal with it and get on with it. If you lie down with it, so be it.

99 times out of 100 the stakeholders of any business are well aware it is going on. The attitude will always be to look the other way as long as profits are made and productivity and budgets etc are working. In most cases top management encourage it.

Every employee handbook will give guidelines on how to address the problem. Every decent bully on the face of the planet works out how exactly to bully everyone by the book. That's how they do.

andekwarhola

Think I've also been lucky as in I've never been bullied myself or witnessed anything toward others outside of usual personality clashes since I started my career

I had a summer job in a factory years ago and a female manager really disliked me for no apparent reason but it was actually amusing to rile her up even more by being extra diligent, polite and pretending not to register any of the comments.

Toots

JupiterKid wrote: »

Endured horrendous bullying from my boss about a decade ago...

...led to me having a complete breakdown. Took a very long time to recover from. Rebuilt my life and career since.

I still have anger at what happened but he did get his comeuppance.

Same here. Two managers made my life complete hell and I ended up walking out of the job and straight round to my GP. I was so hysterical I could barely talk, and he just signed me off work straight away and it was a good few months before I went back, with a transfer to a different location.

Tell me how

It definitely exists in a lot of places but is by and large less of an issue I think now than years ago. I worked with a Fortune 500 company 10 years ago where it started at the very top with every layer of management beneath exhibiting similar personalities and therefore exerting similar pressures on people. A friend did an interview there and actually considered making a complaint after it given what was said to him during it but felt there was no point.
They did change their style some years ago after some public stories of the ethos that existed there.

On the other side, I've seen someone accuse their line manager of bullying them simply in asking them to perform their job as they were contracted to do, they then went on stress leave and even though the claim was found to be entirely unfounded, the line manager took the accusation badly and she left the company soon after.

Necro

It's incredibly common alright. And not just in the big multinationals.

I find retail, or my experiences with it anyways being a playground for the narcissistic types. Particularly in the family run businesses who have no issue in belittling their staff on a daily basis.

Worked for a former TD who ran a supermarket in my town before. It was commonplace for him to storm in and just single out one person on a daily basis for a tirade of abuse and berating.

Then in another place, a filling station - the owner would stagger over drunk from the pub across the road and scream and shout at staff for no reason.

And in yet another filling station, a bully of a boss who would regularly reduce the female staff to tears with abuse.

Strangely I was never targeted, although it came close once - ironically after I had handed in my notice to leave anyways.

One eyed Jack

Always Tired wrote: »

IME it's worse in Ireland than in the other 2 countries I've worked in, by far. Seen other people get a terrible time, and had some managers try it on me, when I stood up to them I was either fired or hours cut or something like that.

It wouldn’t be difficult for workplace bullying and harassment to be more common in Ireland than numerous other countries around the globe. Though in making the point you did say it was in your experience so there’s no way to quantify anecdotal evidence in relation to actual prevalence.

Irish society has a very ingrained sense of 'you must kiss the feet of those in authority' and people get massive power trips if they become the assistant to the assistant manager's dog's secretary. I guess it's the old Catholicism.

Bollocks, you imagine your observations are a uniquely Irish phenomenon? Is that based upon a comparison with the two other countries you worked in? Because there are whole sectors of Irish society where there is no ingrained sense of respect for authority, and there are sectors which do respect authority. In Irish workplaces as in workplaces around the globe, there is an understanding of respect for authority, fcukall to do with Catholicism :rolleyes:

If it happens to you, write down exactly what is said/happens and times and dates. Keep the log updated as it will be your only ally and best evidence. Don't expect HR to help, they're there to protect the employer, not you. And don't expect any other employees to have your back, most likely when push comes to shove they will leave you swinging in the wind. Big reason the bullying is so rife in Ireland is that the workers have no balls and won't stick up for themselves, they'll complain but when it comes down to actually taking action they won't want to know, they will be happy to let you stick your neck out while they save their own.

And that’s the kind of advice that nobody should listen to. By your own standards you claim Irish workers “have no balls”, and in the same breath you’re advising that people who are being bullied shouldn’t first go to HR, and shouldn’t expect support from their co-workers? So... record everything but don’t do anything about it, essentially?

My experiences of workplace harassment and how it is handled couldn’t be more different - from the support coming from Management, HR and from co-workers, they couldn’t have been more supportive once they were aware of what was going on. How did they become aware of it? Because unlike your advice I will always encourage people to out the person bullying and harassing them. People who are of a mind to bully and harass others, thrive on secrecy. They bank on their victims experiencing humiliation to the degree that their victims would be ashamed if anyone were to find out. Their victims aren’t the people who should be ashamed, they already feel like they “don’t have any balls” because they have been humiliated into submission. That’s why workplace bullying and harassment tends to go under the radar and thrive in secrecy - nothing whatsoever to do with people willing to do nothing. Many more times people simply aren’t aware of it until in the most extreme circumstances - it’s too late.

Upforthematch

One eyed Jack wrote: »

My experiences of workplace harassment and how it is handled couldn’t be more different - from the support coming from Management, HR and from co-workers, they couldn’t have been more supportive once they were aware of what was going on. How did they become aware of it? Because unlike your advice I will always encourage people to out the person bullying and harassing them. People who are of a mind to bully and harass others, thrive on secrecy. They bank on their victims experiencing humiliation to the degree that their victims would be ashamed if anyone were to find out. Their victims aren’t the people who should be ashamed, they already feel like they “don’t have any balls” because they have been humiliated into submission. That’s why workplace bullying and harassment tends to go under the radar and thrive in secrecy - nothing whatsoever to do with people willing to do nothing. Many more times people simply aren’t aware of it until in the most extreme circumstances - it’s too late.

Totally agree with this - it's so important for anyone bullied to talk about it - start first with trusted family and friends (not necessarily work colleagues). Use this to get your thoughts together, getting another person's perspective is critical.

Compare it to this comment earlier in the thread about bullies who are

gaelwave wrote: »

Scum who prey on the weak.

Someone being bullied is not weak - they are being intimidated.

Shine a light on it - and call it out directly/via HR/via your manager/solicitor.

StinkyMunkey

When I was young and naive I did take some ****, it would have certainly consistuted bulling.

Now I'll fcuk you to a height and take no **** off anyone. If I deserve a bollicking, I take it and move on. But I cannot abide a bully, I'll quiet happily go out of my way to fcuk one over as I have in the past.

Mad_maxx

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I have seen two cases in the news lately where men have committed suicide and they were being bullied at work according to their families.

At the moment I work on the family farm. So, we have the occasional argument but I don't think bullying happens.(In my situation).
However when I did work in hotels/restaurants and at college I saw a good bit of it. It was mixture of people trying to get ahead and some people just liked mocking/putting people down.
I do think work place bullying can be hard to prove. It's really one persons word against another's and it can be hard to pin it down. Even with people taking notes of incidents/etc.
I have heard of one woman and she was a bully at work and she used always try and get her colleagues in trouble.

Is work place bullying common and what are your experiences with it?

Even its clear as crystal what's happening, management will usually do nothing, they will often circle the wagons and if anything turn on the one complaining

Ineedaname

It's quite common. Never experienced it myself thankfully but I've witnessed it. Family run businesses in particular are the worst for it.

My GF experienced some a while back. She worked in a business where her superior was a daughter of the owner. It started small but built up over time. It involved being given unrealistic deadlines, being blamed for failures, spreading rumors among staff, holidays cancelled last minute, exclusion from social events and (ironically) a false accusation of bullying. Brought it to the powers that be only to be told to "toughen up". It got so bad that some mornings she was in tears going to work. Eventually enough was enough and she handed in her notice.

My GF is no pushover and well able to stand up for herself but bullying is something that can really wear you down and destroy your self-esteem.