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"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forward

Nody

Note anything after this post may contain spoilers for the episode; do not read or open this thread until you have watched the whole episode!!!

This is ONLY about the specific episode! No information from any other source but listed below are allowed to be posted but book related information is allowed as well as the lore from the DVDs. Anything relating to interviews or articles directly related to this episode can be posted with a spoiler tag.

The "Next Episode" and any speculation on what may come in the future episodes should be put in the appropriate stickied Season 8 speculation thread; any funny pictures from the episode should be posted in this thread until Wednesday rather than the funny picture thread.

Note - No spoilers required for the current episode in this thread.

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Witcher

The past can't be changed as per Bloodraven's quote

He heard a whisper on the wind, a rustling amongst the leaves. You cannot speak to him, try as you might. I know. I have my own ghosts, Bran. A brother that I loved, a brother that I hated, a woman I desired. Through the trees, I see them still, but no word of mine has ever reached them. The past remains the past. We can learn from it, but we cannot change it.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Mine is don't go to the well repeatedly, teasing deaths of characters with plot armour. Fine put them in peril but not several times an episode with chance escapes

Gwendoline Christie's acting really underlined that this week for me, really very raw desperate acting that genuinely seemed like somebody fighting for her life even though it was pretty unlikely she'd die. Either her or Jaime getting killed would have been well placed this week. And packed more of a punch than feckin Jorah, who the writers have been consistently more fond of than the audience ever was imo.

I'm not saying any criticism is illegitimate (all of mine are fine :pac:

) and god knows the show does have its fanboys.

Falthyron

Their first step should have been to establish an engagement area—a space in which they establish obstacles to disrupt and canalize the enemy so that they can be destroyed with direct and indirect fire.

https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-winterfell-battle-tactical-analysis/

Pretty much... Then again, does a sound tactical plan translate to good TV? Probably not, especially when you need suspense to hide the lack of substance.

duploelabs

Witcher wrote: »

The past can't be changed as per Bloodraven's quote

But he did affect the past with Hordor

Stone Deaf 4evr

The more I think on it, the more conflicted I feel, the published books are epic, no doubt, but they're also only up to the point where the supernatural side of stuff starts to kick off. Thats not to say that the books couldn't do with some editing - the whole lot of the greyjoys apart from theon and asha could have easily been cut and it wouldn't have made a jot of difference, ditto for the whole sidestory with the other heir to the throne / tyrions big adventure & implied romance with another dwarf.
In general, the show has done a good job of condensing some of it (tyrion & sansa), and made a balls of others (sand snakes, blackfish).

Whilst some of the resolutions have been extremely satisfying - the demise of the high sparrow & the battle of the bastards, the pace has been ratcheted up to a degree that is at odds with the pacing of what came before it. I do wonder, that given the show is as successful as it is, why did they feel the need to close it out as quickly as they did? Rather than taking the time to map out a complete story over an extra season or two, its like they were handed an A4 page with a list of ideas, and are trying to tie all the loose ends together as quickly as possible?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

Whilst some of the resolutions have been extremely satisfying - the demise of the high sparrow & the battle of the bastards, the pace has been ratcheted up to a degree that is at odds with the pacing of what came before it. I do wonder, that given the show is as successful as it is, why did they feel the need to close it out as quickly as they did? Rather than taking the time to map out a complete story over an extra season or two, its like they were handed an A4 page with a list of ideas, and are trying to tie all the loose ends together as quickly as possible?

I don't think it's as profitable as you'd imagine based on how successful it is. For one thing it's the most torrented show of all time, and (open to correction here) the most expensive to produce. HBO exec is on record saying that between Game of Thrones and Big Little Lies there's very little wriggle room in their budget to take a punt on new projects. Regardless of how long it goes on it will end and it'd be unwise for a network to put all its eggs in that basket.

There's also the thing that showrunners, writers, actors don't necessarily want to keep doing something for a decade even if it's successful and lucrative, especially if it means being in Belfast or Iceland for half of every year. DandD already have something about confederate soldiers or something they want to get going, I'd say the likes of Williams, Turner, Harington want to get going on their post thrones careers.

Also it's been a while since I did a full rewatch but there's a season around 4 or 5 where it strongly seems they were treading water on the assumption GRRM would catch up, once they gave up on that there was a noticeable acceleration in pace to make up ground.

paulbok

Did they ever speculate in the show on just how big the NKs army was?
Think they may have mentioned it after capturing the wight last season, 100,000 is in my head but it looked like multiples of that last night.

Mr. Incognito

paulbok wrote: »

Did they ever speculate in the show on just how big the NKs army was?
Think they may have mentioned it after capturing the wight last season, 100,000 is in my head but it looked like multiples of that last night.

Dani: I didnt believe it until I saw them with my own eyes. I saw them all.

Jamie: How many

Dani 100,000 at least.

Jamie 100,000???

Euyron: Can they swim...

Arghus

Sam Rapid Rafter wrote: »

I was annoyed when it started but that ship sailed literally years ago and there are people still for some reason shaking their fists at that horizon every fcuking week.

There are strengths it has now that weren't achievable in early seasons. Tyrion getting knocked out for a battle or Jaime getting captured off screen because of budget restrictions anyone? That increase in scope has meant a loss of nuance, yeah. But it's hardly zombie Simpsons territory. Still some superb acting, production design, cinematography etc. I can think of better programmes on right now, but none in this genre or on this scale.

The size of the a production that this show has grown to is just never going to have the detail, nuance and realism available to a novel writer. Look, maybe if there were no dragons, no wights, no massive battles, fleets of ships etc then we could have more of what we got in seasons 1-3 or 4.

It just seems people's expectations are a) a bit unrealistic and b) frankly nuts seeing as they're not based on the show as it has been for almost the majority of its run now.

I think it's a bit unfair to say people are slamming the show because that in and of itself is their main source of enjoyment. I know you haven't mentioned that exactly in the post I'm replying to, but you did mention that earlier up-thread.

As with everything in this world there's a cohort of people out there that are never pleased with anything - and a lot of them reside here on Boards. It feels that way anyway. Some friends of mine who were immediately shiting on the episode seconds after watching it. Jesus, talk about letting the emotional heat of the moment bypass all attempts at objectivity. It was frustrating to listen to them.

I've a big long word vomit in the non-book reader thread - I'm one of those dweebs -about my views on the episode. I think, overall, I gave it my best stab at objectivity.

It's fun to hate on things; it's very easy - even enjoyable - to spew out 500 words of bile, but I try to catch myself, in most instances, before I go down that route while critiquing something.

There's so much horseshit masquerading as worthwhile opinion on the internet, people can't even make logical arguments or engage in reasonable debate, so I always at least strive to be as fair as I can be - so that I can feel I'm trying to make some sort of worthwhile contribution; not just being another hot-air one-eyed hot-take merchant that this website is already close to full of as it is.

Objectively, GoT is still amazing television. I enjoyed so much of that episode. It was truly epic entertainment and the show delivers on that front all the time, more than ever, in fact. The show does so many things right and I'll miss it big time when it's gone.

But, still, in the bottom of my heart I felt disappointment after the close of the episode yesterday. It was so good, ticked the boxes in numerous ways, but the presence of spectacle over story and Hollywood storytelling really stood out more so than any other single episode from the show's entire run. The greatness was there, as it always is, but some of the frankly unbelievable things we were supposed to accept fitted the show's latter day ethos more so than its initial spirit of the earlier seasons(I would say the first five seasons, but I'm sure many disagree).

There was an opportunity there for the storytellers to return back, even briefly, to the unsympathetic style of narrative and truly deliver something next-level; that was within their grasp. It would have made perfect sense in the context of the episode too and wouldn't necessarily have needed to conflict with the newer and more stoopider internal logic of recent years. I was expecting a tough emotionally grueling episode, surely the shackles were going to be off - based on the supposed threat of The NK, the unfriendly odds, how close we are to the close of the whole bloody lot, etc, etc - but I don't think, ultimately, we got anything close to that.

Fair enough The Beast that is GoT has changed over time and complaining and complaining about it is kinda futile. But episode three of season eight was a missed opportunity - the stage was set for old-skool GoT - whatever about recent seasons internal logic - in this case people expected it, wanted it and it even, I think, made more logical sense than what eventually transpired.

Necro

Sam Rapid Rafter wrote: »

I was annoyed when it started but that ship sailed literally years ago and there are people still for some reason shaking their fists at that horizon every fcuking week.

There are strengths it has now that weren't achievable in early seasons. Tyrion getting knocked out for a battle or Jaime getting captured off screen because of budget restrictions anyone? That increase in scope has meant a loss of nuance, yeah. But it's hardly zombie Simpsons territory. Still some superb acting, production design, cinematography etc. I can think of better programmes on right now, but none in this genre or on this scale.

The size of the a production that this show has grown to is just never going to have the detail, nuance and realism available to a novel writer. Look, maybe if there were no dragons, no wights, no massive battles, fleets of ships etc then we could have more of what we got in seasons 1-3 or 4.

It just seems people's expectations are a) a bit unrealistic and b) frankly nuts seeing as they're not based on the show as it has been for almost the majority of its run now.

This is kind of nail on the head for me tbh.

Yes, the show has definitely suffered after they ran out of book - but who's fault is that? The author who's lounging around on his hands for almost a decade between novels, that's who.

Part of the reason people aren't as happy with it now is because 'they're going off book' - well they have no choice.

The alternative is to wait for his lord highness GRRM to finish the bloody books and then come back to it when all the hype and fervour about the show has essentially evaporated.

I think they've handled it as best as they can. Of course there are flaws, and the writing isn't as tight as it used to be in say, seasons 1-3.

But that's Martin's fault. He gave them plotpoints, not a finished book to work with for the final few seasons of arguably the most popular show ever made.

It's why I get kind of frustrated when people run down the show's writing, instead of turning their ire on the guy who can't be bothered to finish what he started, to give the paying and loyal fans what they deserve after so long.

1996.
1998.
2000.
2005.
2011.

23 years and counting since A Game of Thrones was released. That's unacceptable by any standards imo.

[Deleted User]

Necro wrote: »

23 years and counting since A Game of Thrones was released. That's unacceptable by any standards imo.

It's why I enjoy Brandon Sanderson.

That man writes like he's in lunch-time detention, but writing plots and dialogue instead of "I won't put trenches behind my army again." a hundred times.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

It's why I enjoy Brandon Sanderson.

That man writes like he's in lunch-time detention, but writing plots and dialogue instead of "I won't put trenches behind my army again." a hundred times.

Even having enough time to finish Wheel of Time

RobbingBandit

Merchandise collectables T-shirts etc etc all with characters on the iron throne seems like Homer with 10,000 angel ashtrays.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Even having enough time to finish Wheel of Time

The Stormlight Archive lacks many things that ASOIAF has, but it is thoroughly entertaining and the world-building is true fantasy, which is too much for most.

I make sure to read them when I've time off and end up reading all day and going to sleep at 5am because of them. Humongous books; The last one was 480k words.

Gbear

Deleted User wrote: »

It's why I enjoy Brandon Sanderson.

That man writes like he's in lunch-time detention, but writing plots and dialogue instead of "I won't put trenches behind my army again." a hundred times.

I like Sanderson but he lacks the grit of Martin. His books are a little on the saccharine side. Nice for a change of pace but it doesn't scratch the same itch.

If you're looking for something with the same kinda bite (in fact, probably a bit more) Joe Abercrombie is your man, and his First Law trilogy.

He has a new trilogy set in the same world on the way as well, starting in September.

fitz

Gbear wrote: »

I like Sanderson but he lacks the grit of Martin. His books are a little on the saccharine side. Nice for a change of pace but it doesn't scratch the same itch.

If you're looking for something with the same kinda bite (in fact, probably a bit more) Joe Abercrombie is your man, and his First Law trilogy.

He has a new trilogy set in the same world on the way as well, starting in September.

Abercrombie is good alright, and I really enjoy Sanderson, but Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series puts them and Martin in the absolute shade.

Even if the books were finished, pretty sure there'd have been a bunch or reworking/editing to be done, Martin started writing himself into corners in Book 4. I'm just delighted to be getting an ending of any kind, I don't hold it much hope of the books getting finished.

Romaine

Gbear wrote: »

60 inch, curved 4k smart tv. It should be more than sufficient for anything.

It wasn't about making stuff out but about having an aesthetic that doesn't look like dirt.

I typed up a much longer post. But the Crux of it is that a battle on that scale, in that environment and with that enemy would just look like carnage and 'dirt'.

I have many issues with the episode, but I sat 5 feet away from a 55 inch ultra HD and felt like I was in it. Precisely because I hadn't a clue what was happening for those scenes.

duffysfarm

where was yohn royce at the battle of winterfell? (he's the sort of leader of the knights of the vale - he was in episode 1 & 2 of season 8.

facehugger99

Romaine wrote: »

I typed up a much longer post. But the Crux of it is that a battle on that scale, in that environment and with that enemy would just look like carnage and 'dirt'.

I have many issues with the episode, but I sat 5 feet away from a 55 inch ultra HD and felt like I was in it. Precisely because I hadn't a clue what was happening for those scenes.

Any battle that ends with you not being sure if one or two of the dragons has survived, is doing something wrong.

Necro

fitz wrote: »

Abercrombie is good alright, and I really enjoy Sanderson, but Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series puts them and Martin in the absolute shade.

Even if the books were finished, pretty sure there'd have been a bunch or reworking/editing to be done, Martin started writing himself into corners in Book 4. I'm just delighted to be getting an ending of any kind, I don't hold it much hope of the books getting finished.

I'm the exact same tbh. I've come to terms with the fact that Martin is never going to finish the saga himself, and this is likely the only ending we'll get.

It's why I'm ok to a degree with the quality of the show dipping a bit. By all accounts it's still a fantastic show but the early standards set by following the books plotlines mostly is now impossible because Martin is a lazy git.

And you're right, the plotlines in Books 4 and 5 were winding themselves in knots and I think the easiest answer is that he has no clue of how to unravel them correctly tbh.

I know the TV only guys see the Night King as the big bad and 'the only war that matters', because they're fed this stuff by Sky and the like for soundbites and hype.

But it was always the political movements behind the scenes that drew me into the books. Hell the battles were largely skipped over bar Blackwater in the novels. I just find it a shame that the show has to take the blame for Martin's failings as a writer.

Necro

facehugger99 wrote: »

Any battle that ends with you not being sure if one or two of the dragons has survived, is doing something wrong.

Two dragons survived, the only one that died exploded when the Night King was killed.

It wasn't hard for me to figure that?

Nerdlingr

The more I think about it and the more I read about it on here, the poorer the episode gets. Someone mentioned "Lost"earlier... And for me it's gone down that road. The writers have basically run out of road it seems. Everything is a fan service..and has been for a while now.
An excellent point was made about the previous episode setting up this one, last night on earth etc etc...is this the last time we'll see these characters alive? We invested so much in them it's a shame some of them will die.....wait...What's that you say? Plot armour!! Nice one!! Let's make the previous two episodes redundant and everything we set up by the fireside totally irrelevant and instead diminish it so they can die in kings landing instead! Way hay!

Think it was last season I said GOT used to be about the characters... The characters and their actions drove the plot. Alas, for a while now the plot has been driving the characters. It's a pity. It was such a good show when it was a political chess game. That was it's strength. Gonna watch it to the end of course, a fantastic show but feel things could have been so much better if the writers actually gave care and attention to the characters rather than pandering to the masses.

Riddle101

Since Arya killed the Night's King I guess this means she won't be killing Cersei. I don't think the writers would have her kill two of the major antagonists of the series. Probably save that job for Jaime or Tyrion and then the valonqar prophecy will be complete.

[Deleted User]

Even after a couple of days to let it simmer and with a second viewing, Arya killing the NK is just a letdown for me to the story they had been building beyond The Wall for the last few seasons.

As producers of slick, ground-breaking television and no doubt very hard and talented workers, I take my hat off to D+D. As writers to bring the GOT/ASOIAF story to a satisfying conclusion which actually serves the story and arcs the show has been building, I'm not as confident as I was before this episode. For the last few seasons there have been criticisms that the story has become weaker now that the writers have run out of books to adapt, and I'm starting to see that myself unfortunately.

It can't be all to do with having no source material to adapt from. Even after a few rewatches, I still adore the Battle of the Bastards episode which is not ripped from the books. Think back to the final fight between Jon and Ramsay, the build-up for the whole episode to those few moments, the work involved to actually get to Ramsay beyond his army and the Winterfell gates, the sacrifice of Wun-Wun the giant, the tension and anticipation as Jon advances on Ramsay who is shooting arrows at him from close-range in the Winterfell courtyard, the satisfaction and pay-off when Jon finally gets his hands on Ramsay. Because of the build-up and previous events in the show, someone like Jon or Theon had to get that particular moment with Ramsay for maximum story resolution and effect. Then...when Sansa gets to release the hounds on Ramsay and actually kill him, remember that satisfaction and pay-off? It was pretty much perfect. The producers/Kit Harrington explained on 'Inside The Episode' why Jon stopped punching Ramsay to death and looked up at Sansa - It was Sansa's kill to make, not Jon's. Imagine though if it were Brienne or a shadow-baby from the Red Woman who slipped in to the kennels to kill Ramsey, and not Sansa. That's sort of how I feel about Arya and the Night King.

I like Arya, but I felt absolutely none of that BotB involvement, tension and pay-off when she killed the NK. I have no problem with Arya's ability to sneak up on the NK on her home turf and in the Godswood where she also got the drop on Jon recently. I have no problem with the method of the kill. The episode showed us earlier both 1) How light-footed Arya was while dodging library zombies, and 2) What happens when you dash up on the NK from behind like Jon did on the battlefield.

On second watch of that all-too-brief Jon v NK encounter, I noticed that Jon made a clatter of noise and the scene specifically shows that you can potentially sneak up on the NK, he doesn't have some supernatural presence detector, he just has ears like everyone else. NK was just plodding along thinking NK shít until Jon the Elephant got within earshot of him, and then NK paused and turned to face him. In the Godswood a few minutes later, the NK heard nothing until Arya's leaping "Arghhhhhh!!", and only one of the WW soldiers sensed something as his hair moved with a breeze. Incidentally, this is the only thing a WW soldier did in this episode, in the WW's 'all or nothing' showdown...just about as much as when they were first introduced in season 4's baby/WW conversion scene.

So, I've no problems with how Arya did it. It's the story choice of it being Arya to make the kill and essentially not Jon or someone who has been related to the NK or the 'Great War' in the series all along. It didn't have to be a testosterone-fest with a male protagonist v the NK, just someone who earned that particular kill. Even Dany earned it more than Arya considering she watched the NK spear one of her dragons/children out of the sky. It also makes so much of Jon's story since his resurrection seem pointless. People can now point back after the fact to 'The Red Woman said something to Arya in Season 3 about blue eyes and repeats it in this episode' as clever foreshadowing, but that is not the build-up this particular story was leading towards or the resolution it deserved. It's the writers going back to see what they can draw upon from Arya's past to justify the "unexpected" decision of her killing the NK.

As opposed to actual build-up and foreshadowing with Jon Snow over the years. The show had him brought back from the dead because he apparently served some ultimate purpose in the fight against the eternal night. The show had the NK take notice of Jon as a possible threat at Hardhomme from up on the cliffs after Jon bested one of the WWs in 1 v 1 combat on the ground below. The NK then stared Jon down specifically as he raised the dead at the end of that encounter. From that moment on, it was 'game on' with Jon v the NK in the show. That's build-up, that's anticipation, it's not what some are calling 'too obvious', it's the history of story-telling. While Jon was doing all of this and the show was building up to an eventual battle between the two, Arya was in Bravos selling oysters and thinking about a kill-list of Westeros' political players which did not include the NK. The NK was literally no one to her for much of her journey in the show, and that's pretty much why the resolution to the Great War plot feels so hollow to me.

Arya chopping Meryn 'too old' Trant to bits, massacring the Freys, plotting to kill Cersei, they are all earned kills in the story and make sense to her arc. It was a play Arya watched in Bravos portraying her family's obliteration masterminded by the Lannisters which moved Arya and affected her journey. It wasn't a play of Brandon the Builder flinging up the The Wall which almost brought her to tears. Arya killing the NK is a surprise, but not a satisfying one for the overall story. I even saw a quote from Maisie Williams about her boyfriend's reaction when she told him that Arya was going to kill the NK - "...and then I told my boyfriend and he was like, ‘Mmm, should be Jon though really, shouldn’t it?'"

I have positives to take from 'The Long Night' elsewhere in the story and it was genuinely epic as an episode of television, but where other fans/viewers have been going 'Wait...what?' with story choices over the last couple of seasons (like Littlefinger's death which I was fine with), this was the first choice to really make me feel that way too. Well, the first non-Dorne related one.

We are getting to the end of a story many of us love, and as book-readers the show might be the only ending we get to ASOIAF and those answers and resolutions we've been mulling over for years. This first major resolution - Arya/Unexpected character kills the NK and WW threat, I find it underwhelming at best. It would be as if Tormund were to go on and kill Cersei, just surprise for the sake of surprise and nothing resonant with the story or arcs which the writers set out for us over the years.

They said they chose Arya because it would be "unexpected" and "hopefully with all the other characters you care about in the battle...people would forget about Arya leaving that room". If D+D's primary intention is to subvert our expectations in an episode with the ending of GoT rather than serve a story built up over seasons, well that's a letdown. It reminds me of another property whose most recent major installment 'subverted expectations' in a very divisive way just like this episode did. That movie abandoned build-up and foundations which previous episodes had set up as it took the story in another direction to subvert expectations. Funny enough, D+D are going to be writing a trilogy for this other property in the near future. They even received a set visit from the creator of this other property during filming of GoT's final season. No point in me naming this other property though, you probably wouldn't have heard of it.

73DJSeR.jpg?1

When GRRM subverted expectations in the books, it served the future story and motivations for other characters. The likes of killing Ned Stark early in the story wasn't done primarily for surprise, which is unfortunately where it seems the show has now gone.

I'm still looking forward to the last 3 episodes and there will be enjoyment to be had, but my interest in seeing GRRM finish these books has been reignited in the aftermath of The Long Night. It's as if the Red Woman laid her hands on it and said a decade of the R'hllor rosary.

[Deleted User]

Good post. I hope they haven't gone for the "unexpected" route with Cersei as well.

Arya was an extremely minor character in the NK saga. If an equally minor character in the Lannister saga kills Cersei, it will be significantly worse since she's one of the most complex and well-explored people in the show.

She should either win, or have a poignant and meaningful death at the hands of Jaime, a Kingslayer and a Queenslayer, and what the witch told her would be fulfilled. It being somewhat predictable does not make it bad. D&D hopefully know this.

If it's someone like Brienne, the show can fuk right off. That's the equivalent of Arya and the NK. Even Dany would be bad. Unfortunately, the chances of it being a woman are really high because girl power.

Kunkka

The outrage about the episode is completely over the top in my opinion. Especially people being really annoyed that more people didn’t die in the same GOT shocking style, along with Ayra killing the Night King.

On the first issue. ASOIAF/GOT had been gearing up for this type of ending, the major characters that died along the way happened for very valid reasons to the overall plot, their deaths have made some sort of sense in hindsight. The same can be said for the people that died in that episode, as most fulfilled their purpose, be it for loyalty and/or redemption. I suspect people will get a few more shocking deaths in the next 3 episodes which will lead viewers to remember why Cersei is the main antagonist, along with that final revenge we have been longing for against her. The people that are left still have a big purpose for the most part.

In terms of the grievances people have about Ayra killing the NK when she has had little to do with him. I have a different view. Who knows the God of Death more than Ayra after her journey? I don’t think there was anyone more suitable to end him, as the NK represents death. I believe this is the route GRRM was writing towards too. Bran also had a huge part to play in it, he knew what was coming and that was why it was so symbolic when he gave the knife to Ayra . As he said to Theon and Jaime, everything that has happened brought them to that point.

The battle with the dead was always going to have to be one battle, there can’t be a retreat from either side. I think we may get answers in the next episode about the NK amongst other stuff. I think Sansa and Tyrion will grow close, with Varys becoming hand as there is a deepening divide between Dany and Sansa. I still believe Dany will die, she may rush to end Cersei against Jon’s wishes but be killed in the process.

Most importantly, Clegane Bowl is on!!!!

EagererBeaver

Sleepy wrote: »

I think people missed the point of the White Walkers tbh. They always seemed an allegory for nuclear arms to me: a desperation play by a terrified race that over-reached and created a world ending weapon. The white walkers were created to kill the worlds of men. That's all the motivation they needed.

Jesus Christ. It's just tits and dragons like.

EagererBeaver

Romaine wrote: »

Gbear wrote: »

60 inch, curved 4k smart tv. It should be more than sufficient for anything.

I typed up a much longer post. But the Crux of it is that a battle on that scale, in that environment and with that enemy would just look like carnage and 'dirt'.

I have many issues with the episode, but I sat 5 feet away from a 55 inch ultra HD and felt like I was in it. Precisely because I hadn't a clue what was happening for those scenes.

The size of a TV and its resolution has absolutely no impact on brightness of a scene. The max brightness and the colour gamut it's capable of are much more important. There are **** 4K TVs just as there are **** 1080p TVs.

FWIW, I have a 65 inch Samsung Q9FN which is one of the best TVs money can buy and get incredibly bright. On first watching the ep was incredibly dark. Second time around, it was clearly a different rip/cut as everything was brighter without me touching a thing.

Necro

Deleted User wrote:

Arya was an extremely minor character in the NK saga. If an equally minor character in the Lannister saga kills Cersei, it will be significantly worse since she's one of the most complex and well-explored people in the show.

Why do you assume that Cersei will be killed at all? I get the feeling you're just winding up to complain about whoever does it, if it happens.

It's GOT, not Disney. The lollipop lanes and 'everything is awesome' ending is very likely not what we're getting irregardless of who sits on the Iron Throne to close out the series.

EagererBeaver

Necro wrote: »

Why do you assume that Cersei will be killed at all? I get the feeling you're just winding up to complain about whoever does it, if it happens.

It's GOT, not Disney. The lollipop lanes and 'everything is awesome' ending is very likely not what we're getting irregardless of who sits on the Iron Throne to close out the series.

She has to die because of the prophecy.

Her death at the hands of anyone other than Jaime or (less fulfilling but I'd accept it, Tyrion) would be complete and utter bollocks.