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"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forward

Nody

Note anything after this post may contain spoilers for the episode; do not read or open this thread until you have watched the whole episode!!!

This is ONLY about the specific episode! No information from any other source but listed below are allowed to be posted but book related information is allowed as well as the lore from the DVDs. Anything relating to interviews or articles directly related to this episode can be posted with a spoiler tag.

The "Next Episode" and any speculation on what may come in the future episodes should be put in the appropriate stickied Season 8 speculation thread; any funny pictures from the episode should be posted in this thread until Wednesday rather than the funny picture thread.

Note - No spoilers required for the current episode in this thread.

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[Deleted User]

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think many people including myself enjoyed that it was Arya who killed him ,
Also the show is not over yet ,

It's not over yet, but D&D themselves made us lose interest in the politics of the Iron Throne and focused on the White Walkers.

I hope they can pull off the Cersei thing with more than just shock tactics. They've three episodes to make the throne important again.

yourdeadwright

Deleted User wrote: »

Nah, we're just realising now that they were overplayed by D&D and it ended up being ended in a ridiculous fashion.

The Night King doesn't even exist in the books. D&D added him as a way for the White Walkers to be wiped out in one go. This would have been fine if they, and the Night King in particular, weren't bigged up for so many seasons as the most important thing in the show. It was hammered home that the petty politics of Westeros were a sideshow to the real threat. None of this had to be done to such an extreme.

To have Arya end it all was the nail in the coffin. Maisie Williams herself has said she knew it would be incredibly unpopular as Arya has to right to be the one to kill the NK.

D&D are basically abject morons. They fuked it up so badly. So badly in fact that it will go down like Lost and Dexter.

I think many people including myself enjoyed that it was Arya who killed him ,
Also the show is not over yet ,

[Deleted User]

Sleepy wrote: »

I think people missed the point of the White Walkers tbh. They always seemed an allegory for nuclear arms to me: a desperation play by a terrified race that over-reached and created a world ending weapon. The white walkers were created to kill the worlds of men. That's all the motivation they needed.

Nah, we're just realising now that they were overplayed by D&D and it ended up being ended in a ridiculous fashion.

The Night King doesn't even exist in the books. D&D added him as a way for the White Walkers to be wiped out in one go. This would have been fine if they, and the Night King in particular, weren't bigged up for so many seasons as the most important thing in the show. It was hammered home that the petty politics of Westeros were a sideshow to the real threat. None of this had to be done to such an extreme.

To have Arya end it all was the nail in the coffin. Maisie Williams herself has said she knew it would be incredibly unpopular as Arya has to right to be the one to kill the NK.

D&D are basically abject morons. They fuked it up so badly. So badly in fact that it will go down like Lost and Dexter.

Gbear

Dial Hard wrote: »

Same, and not even in full darkness this time, it was still quite bright out when we started. At no point at all did I struggle to make out anything that was actually shown on-screen. Think it definitely depended on people's individual TV.

60 inch, curved 4k smart tv. It should be more than sufficient for anything.

It wasn't about making stuff out but about having an aesthetic that doesn't look like dirt.

randomrb wrote: »

I think a lot of people have been disappointed with the episode because no on major died in it and the writers have lost their bottle.

That completely misunderstands how death is used in Game of Thrones. The reason that they resound so much with us is that they happen when we don't expect them and more importantly they advance the story.

they could have killed off Jaime or Tyrion or Sansa etc but how would that have made the story more interesting? Ser Jorah has alwasy been Daenys closest advisor (most of the time) and now that she has to make the biggest decision of her life as to whether to support Jons claim or her own she doesnt have him. That lends weight to his death and affects the story.

Just killing of main characters for the sake of it was not what made Game of Thrones great its the surprise deaths that change the Game that is what made us love it, it annoys me when people can't enjoy an episode simple because more characters didnt die

It's not that they had to kill someone. It's that they clearly put numerous charcters in situation where they obviously should have died.

Grey Worm was on the front line when it got hit by the tidal wave of the dead, John was surrounded by literally a hundred wights, Sam, Jaime and Brienne all should've been ripped to pieces, and so on.

It just made all of the scenes involving them weightless and irrelevant.

You can not have people die, but it has to make sense. If you're going to put them in a situation where they must die, as Ned and Robb were, then you kill them, because that's how you establish stakes.

Sleepy

I think people missed the point of the White Walkers tbh. They always seemed an allegory for nuclear arms to me: a desperation play by a terrified race that over-reached and created a world ending weapon. The white walkers were created to kill the worlds of men. That's all the motivation they needed.

RobbingBandit

Night King gonna go T-1000 mode this ain't over

RobbingBandit

Anyone thinking T-1000 Night King turnaround that ain't all she wrote

Loafing Oaf

Adamocovic wrote: »

I agree Sam should have stayed in the crypt.

Or hanging round the library so he could save Arya's skin:p

ThunbergsAreGo

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I wonder do the 'showrunners' even have the imagination/ingenuity to devise a storyline like that. After all none of Bran's 'powers' came in to play in Episode 3 AFAIK; he spent the episode flying round in warg mode....

Ah yeah but it gave us some cool visuals

Adamocovic

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Agreed, Sam should never have survived, he's not a fighter, never has been, never wanted to be. For all the others you can give some explanation, battle exp, skill etc, there is literally no reason for him to have survived and it's frustrating that he did, like even Tyrion has more actual fight experience and was down in the crypt. Sam should either have been in the crypt or ended up dead. Arguably he might have been more use in the crypt against the limited number of contained wights

I agree Sam should have stayed in the crypt.

I understand why he survived (will be used to prove Jon's claim to throne and that storyline) but there was no need to put him in the battle. Only contribution was to get Edd killed.

yourdeadwright

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I wonder do the 'showrunners' even have the imagination/ingenuity to devise a storyline like that. After all none of Bran's 'powers' came in to play in Episode 3 AFAIK; he spent the episode flying round in warg mode....

Can the Night King can get in Brans head ye ?
Maybe that why he warged and flew around , so the Night King couldn't get in his head and see what was going on , ?

Loafing Oaf

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I wouldn't put it past bran doing something that brings back the NK or creates a new NK in the final episode,

I wonder do the 'showrunners' even have the imagination/ingenuity to devise a storyline like that. After all none of Bran's 'powers' came in to play in Episode 3 AFAIK; he spent the episode flying round in warg mode....

yourdeadwright

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Yep, the whole direction of the story since Benioff/Weiss/whoever took over from GRRM has been towards simplification/streamlining/reversion to conventional plotting. So the White Walkers have been completely vanquished and now, as someone said in another thread, it's winner plays Cersei in the final.

I wouldn't put it past bran doing something that brings back the NK or creates a new NK in the final episode,

Loafing Oaf

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Do people really think that will be the end of the white walkers ?

Yep, the whole direction of the story since Benioff/Weiss/whoever took over from GRRM has been towards simplification/streamlining/reversion to conventional plotting. So the White Walkers have been completely vanquished and now, as someone said in another thread, it's winner plays Cersei in the final.

Mokuba

tommy2bad wrote: »

Couldnt be more wrong. People died in GoT because they made bad decisions, since the books ran out the die because they lack fan armour. Their are no more concequences for decisions made, the whole thing is being driven by future events,i.e. the need to wind it up without pissing off the fanboys and girls.

Exactly. This is 100 percent the issue.

yourdeadwright

razorblunt wrote: »

Maybe the NK gets "reborn" via the Three Eyed Raven inadvertently bringing him back.
So Bran goes looking in the past and brings him back into current day?

Id think something along these lines, I can't see the NK gone forever ,
I see them somehow making Jon Snow the new KN

tommy2bad

randomrb wrote: »

I think a lot of people have been disappointed with the episode because no on major died in it and the writers have lost their bottle.

That completely misunderstands how death is used in Game of Thrones. The reason that they resound so much with us is that they happen when we don't expect them and more importantly they advance the story.

they could have killed off Jaime or Tyrion or Sansa etc but how would that have made the story more interesting? Ser Jorah has alwasy been Daenys closest advisor (most of the time) and now that she has to make the biggest decision of her life as to whether to support Jons claim or her own she doesnt have him. That lends weight to his death and affects the story.

Just killing of main characters for the sake of it was not what made Game of Thrones great its the surprise deaths that change the Game that is what made us love it, it annoys me when people can't enjoy an episode simple because more characters didnt die

Couldnt be more wrong. People died in GoT because they made bad decisions, since the books ran out the die because they lack fan armour. Their are no more concequences for decisions made, the whole thing is being driven by future events,i.e. the need to wind it up without pissing off the fanboys and girls.

Triceratops Ballet

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Only person that survived that erked me was Sam,
He can't fight and was overwhelmed on a number of occasions , plus it seems like his story arch is done,

Agreed, Sam should never have survived, he's not a fighter, never has been, never wanted to be. For all the others you can give some explanation, battle exp, skill etc, there is literally no reason for him to have survived and it's frustrating that he did, like even Tyrion has more actual fight experience and was down in the crypt. Sam should either have been in the crypt or ended up dead. Arguably he might have been more use in the crypt against the limited number of contained wights

razorblunt

Maybe the NK gets "reborn" via the Three Eyed Raven inadvertently bringing him back.
So Bran goes looking in the past and brings him back into current day?

check_six

abff wrote: »

I've also been wondering about that. Does anyone know whether the death of the night king also caused all the white walkers to die?

All the ones present burst into shards of ice when the NK was vanquished.

Dial Hard

Necro wrote:

Rewatched it last night again and either I have a better TV than all of you or there's too much complaining. I could see all I needed to see. Really dont get the hullabaloo at all.

Same, and not even in full darkness this time, it was still quite bright out when we started. At no point at all did I struggle to make out anything that was actually shown on-screen. Think it definitely depended on people's individual TV.

yourdeadwright

abff wrote: »

I've also been wondering about that. Does anyone know whether the death of the night king also caused all the white walkers to die?

Yes it did cause them all to die, but somehow I don't think its the end just a hunch ,

abff

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Do people really think that will be the end of the white walkers ?

I've also been wondering about that. Does anyone know whether the death of the night king also caused all the white walkers to die?

randomrb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Only person that survived that erked me was Sam,
He can't fight and was overwhelmed on a number of occasions , plus it seems like his story arch is done,

I agree with you there. I was interesting watching the behind the scenes that they used Sam to try and put a non-fighter in the battle to give the viewer a more relatable baseline I dont know if it worked though

yourdeadwright

randomrb wrote: »

I think a lot of people have been disappointed with the episode because no on major died in it and the writers have lost their bottle.

That completely misunderstands how death is used in Game of Thrones. The reason that they resound so much with us is that they happen when we don't expect them and more importantly they advance the story.

they could have killed off Jaime or Tyrion or Sansa etc but how would that have made the story more interesting? Ser Jorah has alwasy been Daenys closest advisor (most of the time) and now that she has to make the biggest decision of her life as to whether to support Jons claim or her own she doesnt have him. That lends weight to his death and affects the story.

Just killing of main characters for the sake of it was not what made Game of Thrones great its the surprise deaths that change the Game that is what made us love it, it annoys me when people can't enjoy an episode simple because more characters didnt die

Only person that survived that erked me was Sam,
He can't fight and was overwhelmed on a number of occasions , plus it seems like his story arch is done,

randomrb

I think a lot of people have been disappointed with the episode because no on major died in it and the writers have lost their bottle.

That completely misunderstands how death is used in Game of Thrones. The reason that they resound so much with us is that they happen when we don't expect them and more importantly they advance the story.

they could have killed off Jaime or Tyrion or Sansa etc but how would that have made the story more interesting? Ser Jorah has alwasy been Daenys closest advisor (most of the time) and now that she has to make the biggest decision of her life as to whether to support Jons claim or her own she doesnt have him. That lends weight to his death and affects the story.

Just killing of main characters for the sake of it was not what made Game of Thrones great its the surprise deaths that change the Game that is what made us love it, it annoys me when people can't enjoy an episode simple because more characters didnt die

razorblunt

I have to admit the one thing (apart from Sam surviving) that really annoys me after its been pointed out standing in front of the trenches. I also don't think they gave the "humans" enough kudos by having them win somewhat using tactics (trebuchets would have been perfect) but then ultimately being swarmed. This would have tied in nicely with the NK raising the dead.
It also would have allowed a few WW to have been killed by Valyrian swords with their undead being re-raised by the NK.
Similarly Theon could have been given a better death than a pointless charge but that's a smaller gripe.

Mokuba

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I haven't read the books but was there all the fore shadowing of Arya being the one ?

Did the first meeting of Arya and the red witch in season two happen in the books ?
Where she said to Arya " I see a darkness in you , you will shut eye forever, brown , BLUE, Green "

They never meet in the books.

Triceratops Ballet

Gbear wrote: »

It'd be interesting to do a side by side with the battles of Castle Black and Blackwater, because I don't remember having the same problem with those, although I wasn't as disdainful of the show back then.

TBF most of the action in battle of blackwater happened off screen they didn't film extensive battle scenes back then due to budgetary limitations

yourdeadwright

I haven't read the books but was there all the fore shadowing of Arya being the one ?

Did the first meeting of Arya and the red witch in season two happen in the books ?
Where she said to Arya " I see a darkness in you , you will shut eye forever, brown , BLUE, Green "