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Is this GPU upgrade good or should I save for something better?

MrFresh

Currently have an RX480(8GB) and been looking at the GTX 1070. Is this a worthy, and future safe, upgrade or should I save for something a bit better? Current System is i5 2500K with 26GB RAM.

Also, in regards to manufacturer, is there any particular manufacturers that have poor reputation and should be avoided?

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TerrorFirmer

Not really. You can get a brand new GTX1660Ti for the same or less.

Depends on the games but in a lot of the big ones though a 2500K is a pretty hefty bottleneck and performance is poor. If your board supports 3rd gen processors, an upgrade to a 2nd hand 3770 or 3770K would be ideal.

Personally I would much rather have something like a Ryzen 2600X/Intel 9400F + 16GB DDR4 3000mhz with that RX480 rather than a 2500K with a 1660Ti or 1070.

Maybe consider spending the cash on that instead?

MrFresh

I didn't realise the processor was that much of a bottleneck. Would upgrading to one of those you mention require upgrade to DDR4? I think if I was upgrading my processor I'd go with a new MB and case too. I have a MSI P67A GD65 which I think is a bit dated.

killanena

MrFresh wrote:

I didn't realise the processor was that much of a bottleneck. Would upgrading to one of those you mention require upgrade to DDR4? I think if I was upgrading my processor I'd go with a new MB and case too. I have a MSI P67A GD65 which I think is a bit dated.

I have a RX 480 as well and is still serving me well to this day.

I upgraded from an FX 8350 to a Ryzen 2600 a year ago and it made a massive difference. I get very good frames in games such as battlefield 5, Apex legends, Dayz, Arma 3, Warhammer 2 total war to name a few.

I had the option of upgrading the GPU or getting a new board, RAM and the 2600. I'm happy with the choice I made.

I only got 8gb of ddr4 but I'm keeping an eye on Cex for a bargain. I saw 8gb of Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000mhz for just 50 euro a few months ago but I didn't have the price to spare that day and it was gone when I returned on payday. Sickened :P

MrFresh

killanena wrote: »

I have a RX 480 as well and is still serving me well to this day.

I upgraded from an FX 8350 to a Ryzen 2600 a year ago and it made a massive difference. I get very good frames in games such as battlefield 5, Apex legends, Dayz, Arma 3, Warhammer 2 total war to name a few.

I had the option of upgrading the GPU or getting a new board, RAM and the 2600. I'm happy with the choice I made.

I only got 8gb of ddr4 but I'm keeping an eye on Cex for a bargain. I saw 8gb of Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000mhz for just 50 euro a few months ago but I didn't have the price to spare that day and it was gone when I returned on payday. Sickened :P

Just looking at the search on Amazon and there seems to be a few bundles with Asus motherboards. I'd be a bit reticent to upgrade if I also have to upgrade RAM as I just bought some a few weeks ago but I might be able to sell it on.

EDIT: Actually it seems they have a bundle with RAM too.

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/3-9GHz-Gigabyte-Motherboard-3000MHz-Bundle/dp/B07CM5GFZS/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?keywords=Ryzen%2B2600&qid=1556382343&s=gateway&sr=8-2-spons&th=1

TerrorFirmer

Doesn't need to be a bundle, better choice buying seperate, but yes you need new RAM too.

Eg Intel. CPU, Motherboard, RAM.

AMD. You can use the same RAM as above, but this CPU and this motherboard.

These are just examples, not saying get those exact parts, but the end cost is more or less the same. Intel slightly better for gaming now, but the AMD CPU has more threads so in a few years it may (or may not) be faster.

In most new games, low framerates or stuttering would 100% be the CPU, not the RX480. In fact especially if you have no overclock on it, in some games the framerate would be really bad.

MrFresh

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Doesn't need to be a bundle, better choice buying seperate, but yes you need new RAM too.

Eg Intel. CPU, Motherboard, RAM.

AMD. You can use the same RAM as above, but this CPU and this motherboard.

These are just examples, not saying get those exact parts, but the end cost is more or less the same. Intel slightly better for gaming now, but the AMD CPU has more threads so in a few years it may (or may not) be faster.

In most new games, low framerates or stuttering would 100% be the CPU, not the RX480. In fact especially if you have no overclock on it, in some games the framerate would be really bad.

Can you clarify this? Do you mean the Intel processor will degrade faster than the Ryzen or are you talking about future processors?

TerrorFirmer

Processors have a number of cores, and number of threads.

Until about 2 or 3 years ago, the best balance in terms of performance to price was 4 cores, 4 threads. Now, these processors are pretty obsolete. (2500K is a particularly old 4/4 from 2011 and the latest games would struggle badly on this processor as you are probably finding).

The new standard is 6 cores/6 threads (Intel current i5) or 6 cores/12 threads (current AMD midrange equivalent of i5).

Both perform very similar in games right now, Intel usually a little better on average. The AMD may perform better in a few years as it has more threads, and games are starting to use more cores/threads in recent years. But, they may both remain neck-and-neck for their lifetime, impossible to predict, so either is a perfectly OK choice.

There are other processors with 6/12 and 8/16 on both sides, which would last even longer, but they cost a lot more. These processors do age better though. Eg, if you had bought an i7-2600K in 2011 instead of a 2500K, while it would've cost a lot more, it now peforms way better as it has double the threads and handles the latest games somewhat OK.

If you plan keeping the new CPU for as long as you kept the 2500K, an AMD Ryzen 2700 or Intel i7-8700 would be better choices, but a lot more costly.

MrFresh

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Processors have a number of cores, and number of threads.

Until about 2 or 3 years ago, the best balance in terms of performance to price was 4 cores, 4 threads. Now, these processors are pretty obsolete. (2500K is a particularly old 4/4 from 2011 and the latest games would struggle badly on this processor as you are probably finding).

The new standard is 6 cores/6 threads (Intel current i5) or 6 cores/12 threads (current AMD midrange equivalent of i5).

Both perform very similar in games right now, Intel usually a little better on average. The AMD may perform better in a few years as it has more threads, and games are starting to use more cores/threads in recent years. But, they may both remain neck-and-neck for their lifetime, impossible to predict, so either is a perfectly OK choice.

There are other processors with 6/12 and 8/16 on both sides, which would last even longer, but they cost a lot more. These processors do age better though. Eg, if you had bought an i7-2600K in 2011 instead of a 2500K, while it would've cost a lot more, it now peforms way better as it has double the threads and handles the latest games somewhat OK.

If you plan keeping the new CPU for as long as you kept the 2500K, an AMD Ryzen 2700 or Intel i7-8700 would be better choices, but a lot more costly.

Ironically, I chose the 2500 on advice from this forum. Would the same motherboards be appropriate for the faster chips?

killanena

I wouldn't recommend the B450M unless you are not overclocking. Its the same board I got and I fried one recently by doing a slight overclock because apparently (From a post I made awhile back when it happened to me)

Cordell wrote: »

The spec is not enforced by the MB, if I'm not mistaken the PCIe slot is just wired to the 12V rail and any overload will heat up the PCB traces and slot contacts and eventually something will give.

I got a free replacement but I don't want to risk overclocking again now until I either a new less power hungry GPU or new board in the future.

MrFresh

This seems like a reasonable price. Be a bit nervous about installing it all myself but I reckon I could do it. I've never overclocked anything in my life but it would be nice to have the option I suppose. Did you find any better MB option afterwards?

K.O.Kiki

MrFresh wrote: »

Ironically, I chose the 2500 on advice from this forum. Would the same motherboards be appropriate for the faster chips?

It's lasted 7-8 years so not bad advice tbh

MrFresh wrote: »

This seems like a reasonable price. Be a bit nervous about installing it all myself but I reckon I could do it. I've never overclocked anything in my life but it would be nice to have the option I suppose. Did you find any better MB option afterwards?

2700X is definitely the highest end but a good choice, as it comes with a decent cooler.
They have a decent money-saving bundle but tbh I'd get a B450/X470 motherboard:

VRM tier list

TerrorFirmer

Overclocking with compatiable Intel CPUs gives good results but the likes of the 2700X will be grand left to its own devices on a B450M board with no overclocking. AMD CPU's are not good overclockers in general anyway. Truth be told, 95% of people don't need to overclock anyway, no matter what platform they're using.

Ironically, I chose the 2500 on advice from this forum. Would the same motherboards be appropriate for the faster chips?

It's not that it was bad advice at the time, but most people don't hang onto CPU's for 8 years really without swapping out a newer CPU or getting a newer platform altogether.

It's true of anything really - buying a €200 phone today might be the best bang for buck and offer great performance for a time, but the longevity is not going to be the same as a better €500 phone. That's irrelevant if you buy a new phone every 2 years, but highly relevant if you hang onto it for 6+ years!

The i5-2500K was good from about 2011 until 2015 or so. Since 2016 it's been struggling (especially if not overclocked) and in some of the latest games it's pretty abysmal. It also would have cost you a premium in 2011/2012 as it's an unlocked 'k' series chip, but if it's not overclocked, that was a waste of money as at normal speeds it's pretty much identical to the i5-2500 which would've been a fair bit cheaper.

MrFresh

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

It's lasted 7-8 years so not bad advice tbh

2700X is definitely the highest end but a good choice, as it comes with a decent cooler.
They have a decent money-saving bundle but tbh I'd get a B450/X470 motherboard:

VRM tier list

I wouldn't have room for another SSD. Already have three and a dvdr. From your list it seems like this or this would be a good choice.

MrFresh

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Overclocking with compatiable Intel CPUs gives good results but the likes of the 2700X will be grand left to its own devices on a B450M board with no overclocking. AMD CPU's are not good overclockers in general anyway. Truth be told, 95% of people don't need to overclock anyway, no matter what platform they're using.

It's not that it was bad advice at the time, but most people don't hang onto CPU's for 8 years really without swapping out a newer CPU or getting a newer platform altogether.

It's true of anything really - buying a €200 phone today might be the best bang for buck and offer great performance for a time, but the longevity is not going to be the same as a better €500 phone. That's irrelevant if you buy a new phone every 2 years, but highly relevant if you hang onto it for 6+ years!

The i5-2500K was good from about 2011 until 2015 or so. Since 2016 it's been struggling (especially if not overclocked) and in some of the latest games it's pretty abysmal. It also would have cost you a premium in 2011/2012 as it's an unlocked 'k' series chip, but if it's not overclocked, that was a waste of money as at normal speeds it's pretty much identical to the i5-2500 which would've been a fair bit cheaper.

I'm not upset about it or anything. I just found it interesting that the consensus at the time was that an I7 wasn't worth it for gaming but now it seems threading is a major part of gaming. I did intend on trying to overclock but I always worried about power supply and overheating so never took a chance.

TerrorFirmer

Yes but that time was 8 years ago, things have changed a lot since then! Again most people don't go that long without upgrading the CPU. For comparison, that same time span covered from the launch of the Xbox 360 to the launch of the Xbox One!

If you want to put it off, you can get a 2nd hand i7-2600 for €70 and that's a good improvement on the 2500K. If your motherboard supports it, an i7-3770 would be about €100 and that's slightly better again. Both would be a good bit slower than something like a Ryzen 2600 or Intel 9400F, but still capable of playing all the latest games at reasonably good framerates.

MrFresh

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Yes but that time was 8 years ago, things have changed a lot since then! Again most people don't go that long without upgrading the CPU. For comparison, that same time span covered from the launch of the Xbox 360 to the launch of the Xbox One!

If you want to put it off, you can get a 2nd hand i7-2600 for €70 and that's a good improvement on the 2500K. If your motherboard supports it, an i7-3770 would be about €100 and that's slightly better again. Both would be a good bit slower than something like a Ryzen 2600 or Intel 9400F, but still capable of playing all the latest games at reasonably good framerates.

I think I'd prefer future proofing with the 2700x and a new mobo. Maybe upgrade gpu later in the year. I'm half tempted to get a new case and psu too. Does that site assemble?

MrFresh

Should I overclock my current cpu in the meantime?

K.O.Kiki

MrFresh wrote: »

I wouldn't have room for another SSD. Already have three and a dvdr. From your list it seems like this or this would be a good choice.

Go for one of the following instead:
B450 Gaming Plus
B450 Tomahawk
X470 Gaming Pro

(all ATX)
They have 2 more SATA connectors & 2 more fan headers.
The X470 board also has 2x M.2 connectors instead of 1, but only 1x RGB header.

MrFresh wrote: »

Should I overclock my current cpu in the meantime?

You should consider it, but don't go overboard on CPU Vcore (voltage).

killanena

MrFresh wrote: »

Should I overclock my current cpu in the meantime?

Wouldn't make much difference in newer titles, maybe in some older ones.

Often is the way when you decide to upgrade a part in your PC but end up building a new machine entirely :P 8 years was a good run to be fair. Next thing you will be looking at are monitors lol.

TerrorFirmer

If you want to buy prebuilt, AWD IT do some reasonably priced builds. OCUK have improved, but they're not super competitive.

A prebuilt isn't a bad idea as you could sell the current machine for a few hundred.

AWD IT have a Ryzen 2600, 16GB 3000mhz, 500GB SSD, and GTX1070 8GB for about €850 delivered for example. Can be configured here.

MrFresh

This bundle is available on Amazon right now. Seems to be exactly the same price as the two individually on OCUK.

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/AMD-Processor-Wraith-Cooler-Motherboard/dp/B07QD71HZ8/ref=cm_wl_huc_item

MrFresh

So I'm all but settled on the Ryzen 2700x. The mobo is giving me food for thought though. I was going to go with the B450-f in the bundle, Then I thought it might be worth going with the x470 for the extra €70 to maybe use overclocking. I searched some forums and saw mention of the Crosshair vii being the one to beat but it was another €70 again. By chance I checked it out and there is a cosmetically damaged one available for only an extra €15. I think I'll go with that.

K.O.Kiki

Just check it against the VRM tier list (posted earlier).

MrFresh

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Just check it against the VRM tier list (posted earlier).

It's the top tier Asus one as far as I can tell.

smacl

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Just check it against the VRM tier list (posted earlier).

Apologies for taking this slightly off topic, but if you were planning on updating the CPU in the future with a next generation Ryzen would that be the equivalent of overclocking the current gen from a mobo point of view?

K.O.Kiki

smacl wrote: »

Apologies for taking this slightly off topic, but if you were planning on updating the CPU in the future with a next generation Ryzen would that be the equivalent of overclocking the current gen from a mobo point of view?

Depends on how much power the newer CPU draws.

MrFresh

Just a bit of an update. I got the ROG Crosshair Hero VII x470 board and the Ryzen 2700x. Just finished installing it. Thankfully booted on first go. Start up seems a little slower than before. Not sure why. I've encountered two issues so far. First one is minor. I can't get the led at the front of the computer to work. Either the part behind the panel has come loose or I damaged the cable during the change. It wouldn't be such a big deal but the fan that came with the Ryzen is totally silent and coupled with the slower boot I can't actually tell if the computer is on. The second issue is a little concerning. My RAM auto sets to 2133mhz. It should be 3000mhz. If I change the speed manually the computer won't boot. I'm wondering is it dodgy RAM or could their be a power issue.

GHOST MGG

Their should be a xmp profile on the rog hero board,if if that doesnt boot and you said you manually entered the correct timing s for you ram in bios then i would suggest taking the ram out and reseating,if that doesnt work try booting with one stick,then 2 so you can find the one thats causing the problem

MrFresh

GHOST MGG wrote: »

Their should be a xmp profile on the rog hero board,if if that doesnt boot and you said you manually entered the correct timing s for you ram in bios then i would suggest taking the ram out and reseating,if that doesnt work try booting with one stick,then 2 so you can find the one thats causing the problem

I've been searching the forums and it seems that a lot of RAM isn't optimised for AMD boards. Most likely the cause.

In regards to performance I've only tried it with XCOM2 and it's a massive improvement. Stuttering all but gone. Big thanks to all for the help.

MrFresh

If I should manage to sell some of my old parts and get a big of cash together would it be worth getting the Rx Vega 64 or should I save up for something dearer?