Saoradh dissident republican march in Dublin

markodaly wrote: »

WTF?

The Free State colluded now? More New IRA apologist talk.

Partition is a reality because the people VOTED for it.
Never let the facts get in the way of your own vested interest to pass the buck of violence.

I will say it again, so you might hear, I reject and condemn anything to do with dissidents and the 'New IRA'.

I'm in my mid 50's and during my lifetime...not to mention what went before...I definitely saw my government's (Dublin) security forces helping to secure the British border on this island and suppressing any one who objected to it, whether they be ordinary citizens trying to go about their lives or those who supported paramilitaries.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I will say it again, so you might hear, I reject and condemn anything to do with dissidents and the 'New IRA'.

.

The new IRA is just doing what the Provo IRA did -use physical force in pursuit of a political objective. By condoning the Provos you have encouraged and supported the new IRA. The 18 year old lads in the new IRA were just fed a load of propoganda growing up, by people in their 40's and 50's.

janfebmar wrote: »

The new IRA is just doing what the Provo IRA did -use physical force in pursuit of a political objective. By condoning the Provos you have encouraged and supported the new IRA.

I have never condoned any of the violence that has taken place on this island. I condemn it all. It should never have happened if those with the power and responsibility had taken action.

Understanding why it happened and why it will continue to happen is not 'condoning' it.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I will say it again, so you might hear, I reject and condemn anything to do with dissidents and the 'New IRA'.

So, why are you making excuses for it?

I'm in my mid 50's and during my lifetime...not to mention what went before...I definitely saw my government's (Dublin) security forces helping to secure the British border on this island and suppressing any one who objected to it, whether they be ordinary citizens trying to go about their lives or those who supported paramilitaries.

We have gone through this before.

Partition is a fact of life and our government has a duty to uphold it as its part of an internationally accepted border.

We, the Irish people voted for the Treaty, which partitioned the Island.
We, the Irish people also gave up our territorial claim to the North as part of the GFA
Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom until there is a democratic will to change this from the people in the North.

There was no 'collusion' between the Free State and the British. The Free State was carrying out the will of the Irish People.
It's funny though that people like yourself go on about the will of the Irish people as some sort of justification to hold extremist views in relation to Irish Nationalism. Until it's pointed out of course that the will of the Irish people shows us they accept partition.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have never condoned any of the violence that has taken place on this island. I condemn it all. It should never have happened if those with the power and responsibility had taken action.

Understanding why it happened and why it will continue to happen is not 'condoning' it.

TBF,without the ira nobody would have been compelled to get round the table in the first place as you pointed out with regards to the GFA.

Marcus Rashford

The Gardai should have gone in with batons and water cannons to break up that march.

The New IRA and their ilk are scum; they are not republicans; they’re subversives who want to undermine our republic.

I put them on the same level as ISIS. The security services on both sides of the border should collaborate and make it their mission to intimidate, harass, and humiliate these scumbags. Smash into their houses in the middle of the night. Drag them out of their beds kicking and screaming. Beat and humiliate them in front of their partners. Spraypaint “terrorist” and “murderer” outside their homes.

These people are animals and should be treated as such.

Pkiernan

It's a disgrace that this young woman died to satisfy the moronic "All my rivers run free" fantasy of these unemployed hard left Marxist assholes and the unemployed idiots who support them.

The reality is that southern tax payers do not want a united Ireland and the current status quo suits everyone.

This new breed of morons needs to be put down.

markodaly wrote: »

So, why are you making excuses for it?

We have gone through this before.

Partition is a fact of life and our government has a duty to uphold it as its part of an internationally accepted border.

We, the Irish people voted for the Treaty, which partitioned the Island.
We, the Irish people also gave up our territorial claim to the North as part of the GFA
Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom until there is a democratic will to change this from the people in the North.

There was no 'collusion' between the Free State and the British. The Free State was carrying out the will of the Irish People.
It's funny though that people like yourself go on about the will of the Irish people as some sort of justification to hold extremist views in relation to Irish Nationalism. Until it's pointed out of course that the will of the Irish people shows us they accept partition.

That is just self serving rubbish that jumps back and forth in time in a John Brutonesque attempt to alter the actual - on the ground - history.

With the usual attempt to depict anyone who objects to your twisted narrative as an 'extremist'. :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That is just self serving rubbish that jumps back and forth in time in a John Brutonesque attempt to alter the actual - on the ground - history.

With the usual attempt to depict anyone who objects to your twisted narrative as an 'extremist'. :rolleyes:

Can you, therefore, clarify what you mean when you say our government colluded with the British in relation to Partition.

markodaly wrote: »

So, why are you making excuses for it?

We have gone through this before.

Partition is a fact of life and our government has a duty to uphold it as its part of an internationally accepted border.

We, the Irish people voted for the Treaty, which partitioned the Island.
We, the Irish people also gave up our territorial claim to the North as part of the GFA
Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom until there is a democratic will to change this from the people in the North.

There was no 'collusion' between the Free State and the British. The Free State was carrying out the will of the Irish People.
It's funny though that people like yourself go on about the will of the Irish people as some sort of justification to hold extremist views in relation to Irish Nationalism. Until it's pointed out of course that the will of the Irish people shows us they accept partition.

An Garda Siochana colluded with the IRA in several operations obviously not on an official level but members of AGS did.

markodaly wrote: »

Can you, therefore, clarify what you mean when you say our government colluded with the British in relation to Partition.

By ignoring what was going on in a region they had a constitutional claim on and in helping to secure a militarised border at the expense of their own citizens living along it. Quite simple.

Maybe you can forget the Heavy Gang's excesses and the marginalising and impoverishing of whole communities but not everyone does.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

By ignoring what was going on in a region they had a constitutional claim on and in helping to secure a militarised border at the expense of their own citizens living along it. Quite simple.

A constitutional claim that was given up as part of the GFA.
Partition was accepted as part of the treaty.
Do you reject democracy?

What should the Free State have done in your opinion?

Rechuchote

Thing is, this kind of military-style march by people wearing military/political branding is very, very unusual in Dublin, or in the Republic of Ireland generally.

In Northern Ireland, it's the norm every summer for certain parties to tease communities by triumphal parades with fifes and drums and a militia style. We don't do this in the Republic of Ireland.

When we talk about 'marches', we mean a mass of indignant people going out into the street and wandering from the Garden of Remembrance to Government Buildings shouting "What do we want?" "X!" "When do we want it?" "Now!" and then wandering off home, satisfied that we've made our point.

In general, for 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the population, the only army we recognise is the army of the State.

These muppets with their self-important carry-on are just bewildering and distasteful to virtually all of us. There have been a few cries of "Make a law against it!" - but such a law would be more or less unworkable. The more general response has been a chorus of mockery.

markodaly wrote: »

A constitutional claim that was given up as part of the GFA.
Partition was accepted as part of the treaty.
Do you reject democracy?

What should the Free State have done in your opinion?

This was AFTER the conflict/war was essentially over.

Their prime regard should have been for their own citizens and those who identified as Irish living in a region that we had a constitutional claim over.

Along the border we witnessed Irish forces helping to secure a border which was militarised by the British. A border that did not discriminate between paramilitaries and ordinary citizens. We were made prisoners in our own communities effectively and Dublin aided that.

Farawayhome

markodaly wrote: »

A constitutional claim that was given up as part of the GFA.
Partition was accepted as part of the treaty.
Do you reject democracy?

What should the Free State have done in your opinion?

Let's have a look at this democracy you speak of. How democratic is it to have to decide upon a treaty under the threat of "immediate and terrible war"? How democratic is it to ignore the wishes of the Irish people for independence expressed in the 1918 elections?

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have never condoned any of the violence that has taken place on this island. I condemn it.

But you have condoned the IRA. You do not think of lads shooting at police lines as "violence",that is just the war against crown forces. The new IRA is just doing what the Pira did. Use physical force in pursuit of political objectives. BY condoning the Pira you have encouraged the new IRA.

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This was AFTER the conflict/war was essentially over.

Their prime regard should have been for their own citizens and those who identified as Irish living in a region that we had a constitutional claim over.

Along the border we witnessed Irish forces helping to secure a border which was militarised by the British. A border that did not discriminate between paramilitaries and ordinary citizens. We were made prisoners in our own communities effectively and Dublin aided that.

The northern side was the BA attempting to protect the border from republican terrorists moving arms/bombs into the north.

The southern side was the gardai/army attempting to protect the border from unionist terrorists moving arms/bombs into the south.

Should they have just left the border open?

janfebmar wrote: »

But you have condoned the IRA.

I understand why the IRA existed.

You can do that without condoning violence. There was violence on the island of Ireland for a long time before the IRA came into existence.
Britain maintained it's presence here by using violence for instance.

It was ALL wrong.

By supporting the continued presence of the British here, you are encouraging the New IRA...see how that silly logic you like to use, works?

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The northern side was the BA attempting to protect the border from republican terrorists moving arms/bombs into the north.

The southern side was the gardai/army attempting to protect the border from unionist terrorists moving arms/bombs into the south.

Should they have just left the border open?

No more than trying to protect it if Brexit happens they caught practically nobody during it's militarised period.

It was essentially a sop to border Unionists. It was entirely ineffective during the conflict/war and only aggravated those who lived along it.

The infamous Garda Heavy Gang terrorised southern communities indiscriminately, coming to the attention of Amnesty such were their excesses. They were supported by arch partitionist and cabinet member Conor Cruise O'Brien. The same cabinet that wound down the Garda investigation into the Dublin-Monaghan bombings, lest they have to investigate British Army involvement.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Their prime regard should have been for their own citizens and those who identified as Irish living in a region that we had a constitutional claim over.

So, again, what should they have done exactly?

We were made prisoners in our own communities effectively and Dublin aided that.

You mean they followed the will of the Irish people?

In all your continued protests about the New IRA, you are singing from the same hymn sheet.

Your talk about the border, partition and all that is rubbish, dressed up to appease a small segment of the population who wants to rationalise continued violent struggle.
Then end result of this is of course actions like Omagh and the murder of Lyra McKee.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Should they have just left the border open?

A good question.

What exactly should the Free State have done here?
I guess any action or nonaction can be seen as 'collusion'.

Ash.J.Williams

Tomas81 wrote: »

That's him being handed the gun is it not.

different one

markodaly wrote: »

So, again, what should they have done exactly?

You mean they followed the will of the Irish people?

In all your continued protests about the New IRA, you are singing from the same hymn sheet.

Your talk about the border, partition and all that is rubbish, dressed up to appease a small segment of the population who wants to rationalise continued violent struggle.
Then end result of this is of course actions like Omagh and the murder of Lyra McKee.

Again, I condemn and detest the New IRA and dissidents.

After stating that I am not sure what else I can do.

The New IRA's latest act does not change history, no matter how much those engaging in 'the politics of the latest atrocity' wish it.

Farawayhome

markodaly wrote: »

A good question.

What exactly should the Free State have done here?
I guess any action or nonaction can be seen as 'collusion'.

So what's your views on Irish people having to vote on a treaty under the threat of "immediate and terrible war"?

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

different one

The still your looking at of him and a white hand across him is a well known Saoradh member handing him a black bag (which is apparently the fire arm)

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again, I condemn and detest the New IRA and dissidents.

After stating that I am not sure what else I can do.

Perhaps you can stop blaming partition as the cause of the violence. The cause of the violence are those people who think they can use violence to circumvent democracy.

The New IRA's latest act does not change history, no matter how much those engaging in 'the politics of the latest atrocity' wish it.

That is your interpretation of history.

The Free State did not collude with the British and partition the Island. It was part of a Treaty, agreed as per referendum by the Irish people.
If you want to state that the Irish people colluded with the British, fine just say it.

RobMc59

Farawayhome wrote: »

So what's your views on Irish people having to vote on a treaty under the threat of "immediate and terrible war"?

You've said all this before on other threads and wasn't that alledged statement 100 years ago?

markodaly wrote: »

Perhaps you can stop blaming partition as the cause of the violence. The cause of the violence are those people who think they can use violence to circumvent democracy.

To achieve what? An end to partition. I.E. Partition is the cause of this.

That is your interpretation of history.

The Free State did not collude with the British and partition the Island. It was part of a Treaty, agreed as per referendum by the Irish people.
If you want to state that the Irish people colluded with the British, fine just say it.

Agreeing with it and abandoning Irish people to their fate and ignoring the sectarian bigoted actions of the artificially created Unionist majority for 60 odd years, until it inevitably went up in flames, would be collusion imo.

markodaly wrote: »

It was part of a Treaty, agreed as per referendum by the Irish people.

Which referendum from the treaty partitioned the country?