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Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

goz83

Mod Note: I've discussed with site admins, due to the current legal situation recommendations cannot be made for use of electric scooters on public roads in Ireland, but can be made for use on private property. However, we will allow discussion of e-scooters for purchase for use on private property, and other jurisdictions such as France/Germany where they are legal for use. This restriction will be lifted as soon as the legal situation changes, which will hopefully be soon.

I was thinking of getting one of those xiaomi m365 folding scooters to cover the last 5 kilometres of the journey as I come into the city and traffic gets mad. I am looking for peoples experiences with them.

I understand they are in a bit of a legal grey area, but you need to push this scooter to get going, so technically it doesn’t operate on mechanical power alone which is what the rsa site mentions as the definition of an mpv.

I’ll be travelling about 15km each way from urban to city. Due to a back injury, I can’t spend an hour stuck in traffic twice per day. I can’t tolerate public transport and it would be much more expensive (over €100 per month, compared to about €5 per month in my Leaf and m365).

So, my plan would be to drive about 10km and park the car before hitting the city centre. Parking would be free as I would be well outside the cc. I would then scoot the rest of the way to my destination and do the reverse on my return journey. I wouldn’t be stuck in traffic for too long and the range of the scooter should easily cover the return journey without destination charging. The scooter will cost around €400 to buy and claims 30km per charge...I am expecting 15.

What do you think?

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rubadub

Grassey wrote: »

Otherwise scooters are only suitable for 10k/h max along a footpath where rear visibility to other road users is not as essential

the limit for electric wheelchairs is lower on paths, it should be the same as them IMO.

The scooters I see are on average a fair bit faster than most bikes, especially since these is no letup at all with them & very quick to accelerate. There is a guy on a unicycle who pisses up a hill that most cyclists stuggle on, up out of the saddle.

Martynet

Grassey wrote: »

And what about cycle lanes on the road and not on a segregated pavement? 25 or 50 limit?

The biggest issue I have with escooters (and ecars) is that they are silent. You cannot hear them approaching from behind and squeezing past overtaking if you are on a bike.

That and the rear light is too low to be of use. It needs to be at the same level as car/bike about 3ft off the ground. Otherwise scooters are only suitable for 10k/h max along a footpath where rear visibility to other road users is not as essential

For cycle lanes on the road 50. Because fast cyclists do go 40-50 km/h no problem. And scooters should be allowed the same I think. Most scooters won't but it will be handy if you can, especially when overtaiking. I agree with the lights. All eriders riders should have lights on their back or helmet or anywhere where visible. I do have highwiz with flashing lights on my back and it's working great. I also use it to indicate. There is a bluetooth controller on my handlebars with arrows and when I press the button, big LED arrow starts flashing on my back. Brilliant idea. I'm not worried about the noise. Cyclists with good bike are silent too. People just have to be more careful and maybe use bell when overtaking.

Martynet

rubadub wrote: »

the limit for electric wheelchairs is lower on paths, it should be the same as them IMO.

The scooters I see are on average a fair bit faster than most bikes, especially since these is no letup at all with them & very quick to accelerate. There is a guy on a unicycle who pisses up a hill that most cyclists stuggle on, up out of the saddle.

I agree with the speed limit for pavements. Should be the same as for mobility device... about 8-10 km/h. I ride on pavement only when with kids and very very slowly.

...Ghost...

Grassey wrote: »

The biggest issue I have with escooters (and ecars) is that they are silent. You cannot hear them approaching from behind and squeezing past overtaking if you are on a bike.

At low speeds, my ecar makes a whirring sound. But even a diesel engine clattering away won't be heard by cyclist and pedestrians who have music blaring away in their ears. People are going to need to be much more visually aware, because transport is going silent.

rubadub wrote: »

The scooters I see are on average a fair bit faster than most bikes, especially since these is no letup at all with them & very quick to accelerate. There is a guy on a unicycle who pisses up a hill that most cyclists stuggle on, up out of the saddle.

You must be seeing a minority of escooters that can go fast. The majority of e-scooters on our roads are M365s. Most cyclists easily outpace an M365.I have travelled about 800km in the city and have overtaken 2 cyclists...both on Dublin city rent bikes.

Garibaldi?

...Ghost... wrote: »

At low speeds, my ecar makes a whirring sound. But even a diesel engine clattering away won't be heard by cyclist and pedestrians who have music blaring away in their ears. People are going to need to be much more visually aware, because transport is going silent.

You must be seeing a minority of escooters that can go fast. The majority of e-scooters on our roads are M365s. Most cyclists easily outpace an M365.I have travelled about 800km in the city and have overtaken 2 cyclists...both on Dublin city rent bikes.

Visual awareness should be emphasized by the RSA now in order to avoid tragedies. Ecars are dangerously silent.

Capt'n Midnight

Martynet wrote: »

I agree with the speed limit for pavements. Should be the same as for mobility device... about 8-10 km/h. I ride on pavement only when with kids and very very slowly.

The limit on paths is NOT 10Km/h , it's closer to half that.

Up North it's 6 km/h on paths giving priority to pedestrians, and 12Km/h on actual roads.

Also need licencing, tax and insurance in the UK.

...Ghost...

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Visual awareness should be emphasized by the RSA now in order to avoid tragedies. Ecars are dangerously silent.

I agree, the RSA need to promote visual awareness. ecars are not as dangerous as you suggest though. Most of them make a whining/whirring noise when under 30km/h.

The real problem is not the silence of the ecar, it's the complete ignorance of pedestrians who cross the road without even looking ahead, never mind left/right. Their eyes are fixed on their phone and often they are wearing headphones, so they are crossing the road blind and deaf. It's the motorist who gets blamed when these idiots stroll out onto the road.

We have a very similar problem with people driving cars. Every other driver is looking down at their phone. Every single day I commute into the city, I have to beep the horn at drivers in front of me. I can see they are looking down and are almost certainly reading/writing messages on their phones. It's insane! I notice it's mainly drivers in their 20s and mostly female, but there are plenty of older ones too.

Sorry for going OT.

antodeco

My Kugoo has quite a noisy whine. Its similar to the whine from a Formula E car, which I actually really like! Ive noticed when the M365 goes passed, there is virtually no noise.

In relation to pedestrians, the amount of times Ive nearly crashed into them walking straight across the cycle lane. I even ring the bell now in advance, and they still do it.

Johnboy1951

antodeco wrote: »

My Kugoo has quite a noisy whine. Its similar to the whine from a Formula E car, which I actually really like! Ive noticed when the M365 goes passed, there is virtually no noise.

In relation to pedestrians, the amount of times Ive nearly crashed into them walking straight across the cycle lane. I even ring the bell now in advance, and they still do it.

Fit an air horn!

ted1

antodeco wrote: »

My Kugoo has quite a noisy whine. Its similar to the whine from a Formula E car, which I actually really like! Ive noticed when the M365 goes passed, there is virtually no noise.

In relation to pedestrians, the amount of times Ive nearly crashed into them walking straight across the cycle lane. I even ring the bell now in advance, and they still do it.

Maybe they feel that as you are not on a bike you shouldn’t be there either

And if you do use it , try following the correct ettequite i.e keep to the left. I’ve noticed lots of scooter users tend to weave when using the lane.
General rule is keep left to allow others over take.

antodeco

ted1 wrote: »

Maybe they feel that as you are not on a bike you shouldn’t be there either

And if you do use it , try following the correct ettequite i.e keep to the left. I’ve noticed lots of scooter users tend to weave when using the lane.
General rule is keep left to allow others over take.

Jesus dont worry! The other scooterists annoy me. I stop at each red light, keep left, slow down when it looks like someone could step out in front of me. Wear a helmet with a flashing light on the back, and have the front and rear lights on the scooter. I use the cycle lane when there is one, and the road when there is not. I wont overtake a cyclist unless it is 100% safe. I added a bell to warn other users also.

Ive been on the road for a long time, so I know what stuff annoys me with other users, so I dont do the same!

Garibaldi?

antodeco wrote: »

Jesus dont worry! The other scooterists annoy me. I stop at each red light, keep left, slow down when it looks like someone could step out in front of me. Wear a helmet with a flashing light on the back, and have the front and rear lights on the scooter. I use the cycle lane when there is one, and the road when there is not. I wont overtake a cyclist unless it is 100% safe. I added a bell to warn other users also.

Ive been on the road for a long time, so I know what stuff annoys me with other users, so I dont do the same!

Totally concur. This is a very safe form of transport for careful responsible people.Unlike when on a bike, the rider can hop off the vehicle very quickly and get out of danger's way if he/she feels vulnerable.It's small, light and compact and the(responsible) rider is very much in control.

ted1

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Totally concur. This is a very safe form of transport for careful responsible people.Unlike when on a bike, the rider can hop off the vehicle very quickly and get out of danger's way if he/she feels vulnerable.It's small, light and compact and the(responsible) rider is very much in control.

If it is so safe why wear a helmet?

Johnboy1951

ted1 wrote: »

If it is so safe why wear a helmet?

A lack of stupidity?

Garibaldi?

Every user of an open vehicle should have a helmet. Amazes me that Dublin Bikes etc rarely have helmeted cyclists! Why don't they bring helmets with them if they know they'll be hiring a bike?

rubadub

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Every user of an open vehicle should have a helmet. Amazes me that Dublin Bikes etc rarely have helmeted cyclists! Why don't they bring helmets with them if they know they'll be hiring a bike?

Maybe ask your parents or other older relatives why they cycled without them. Maybe you did it yourself once.

I feel safer cycling without a helmet when commuting. There are many reasons people choose not to wear them. Its infuriating how ignorant some people are about it who then call people "stupid" or "mad", when they are usually stupidly irrational & hypocritical themselves.

https://www.cyclehelmets.org/

tuxy

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Every user of an open vehicle should have a helmet. Amazes me that Dublin Bikes etc rarely have helmeted cyclists! Why don't they bring helmets with them if they know they'll be hiring a bike?

Inconvenience and people are lazy/stupid, in countries like Australia where wearing helmets is mandatory bike schemes like the one in Dublin have been a failure. Health benifits for cycling has been show to outweigh the risk of no helmet though.

rubadub

tuxy wrote: »

Inconvenience and people are lazy/stupid

right on cue, the irony of calling lazy & stupid!

rubadub wrote: »

Its infuriating how ignorant some people are about it who then call people "stupid" or "mad", when they are usually stupidly irrational & hypocritical themselves.

https://www.cyclehelmets.org/

ted1

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Every user of an open vehicle should have a helmet. Amazes me that Dublin Bikes etc rarely have helmeted cyclists! Why don't they bring helmets with them if they know they'll be hiring a bike?

Why?

What are your views on drivers wearing neck braces and helmets ?

grogi

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Every user of an open vehicle should have a helmet. Amazes me that Dublin Bikes etc rarely have helmeted cyclists! Why don't they bring helmets with them if they know they'll be hiring a bike?

Can you quote the research that links wearing a helmet to safety of a cyclist?

If there is any possitive injury effect, it is easily offset by reduced usage of cycles when the helmet is mandatory. People simply cycle more often when they don't have to wear a helmet, which makes them healthier and live longer... Cyclists in helmets cycle in more risky way as well.

On top of the above, there is research that shows that drivers are much more aggressive towards cyclist wearing helmets and other protection gear than towards cyclist "in stilettos". It also reduces any possible positive effects of helmets.

It is my personal opinion, especially in the cities, the effect of wearing helmets are massively overrated. I do wear a helmet when cycling in the open road thought.

Lumen

What is the dry stopping distance of an electric scooter at (say) 25kph?

Bike or car is about 5m.

loyatemu

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Every user of an open vehicle should have a helmet. Amazes me that Dublin Bikes etc rarely have helmeted cyclists! Why don't they bring helmets with them if they know they'll be hiring a bike?

go to Holland, the cycling-est country on earth - not a single person wearing a helmet (or hi-viz). But maybe they're wrong and we're right.

Garibaldi?

loyatemu wrote: »

go to Holland, the cycling-est country on earth - not a single person wearing a helmet (or hi-viz). But maybe they're wrong and we're right.

I can't comment on that but it does stand to reason that if your head hits the ground your brain injury, whatever about any other consequence, will be reduced.

Lumen

Garibaldi? wrote: »

I can't comment on that but it does stand to reason that if your head hits the ground your brain injury, whatever about any other consequence, will be reduced.

FWIW there's 2154 posts of arguments about this issue on one thread in the Cycling forum. Any statement which starts with "it does stand to reason" is unlikely to capture the subtleties of the debate.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057030568

Johnboy1951

ted1 wrote: »

Why?

What are your views on drivers wearing neck braces and helmets ?

You seem to mean car drivers and such? ...... those with seats with headrests and surrounded by air bags designed to prevent head injuries?

Is that what you really meant?

rubadub

Garibaldi? wrote: »

I can't comment on that but it does stand to reason that if your head hits the ground your brain injury, whatever about any other consequence, will be reduced.

due to the size of the helmet your chance of it hitting the ground is hugely increased. I already gave a link, if you are genuinely interested have a read, like many I suspect you already just think you know it all and that it is all "common sense".

As I said already I do NOT wear a helmet on my commute as I feel SAFER without it.

Many would say you are mad to cycle without one but would laugh at the idea of wearing it while doing a dangerous activity where falling is a very high risk, e.g. walking in icy weather.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

You seem to mean car drivers and such? ...... those with seats with headrests and surrounded by air bags designed to prevent head injuries?

Is that what you really meant?

Yes, that is exactly what he meant. Most of the current protection is of less benefit than wearing a helmet. If I was to wear a helmet I would sooner do it in a car than on a bicycle, I remember reading studies saying it is of far more benefit in a car -even taking into account all the standard protections, seatbelts, airbags etc.

Why do you think rally drivers wear them. If they bothered asking coroners and doctors if a helmet would have helped in the case of car crash victims who suffered head injuries I expect most would say yes. However they never bother asking coroners about that, they only do it with cycling injuries.

Maybe people are too worried about looking cool -the usual shite you hear about cyclists.

...Ghost...

ted1 wrote: »

If it is so safe why wear a helmet?

Fashion statement, or maybe less risk of brain injury.

Lumen wrote: »

What is the dry stopping distance of an electric scooter at (say) 25kph?

Bike or car is about 5m.

Hugely depends on the scooter and the weight of the rider. At full speed (25km/h) I would guess about 2.5m.

Garibaldi?

Would love a scooter if they are made legal. But one disadvantage they have is the inability to carry much stuff. You'd need a backpack

Lumen

...Ghost... wrote: »

Hugely depends on the scooter and the weight of the rider. At full speed (25km/h) I would guess about 2.5m.

That would require over 1g of deceleration. I find that rather implausible, given the geometry of the scooter and human.

grogi

Lumen wrote: »

That would require over 1g of deceleration. I find that rather implausible, given the geometry of the scooter and human.

1G is achievable by sport cars on performance tyres, like Honda s2000... Hard to believe a scooter performs similarly...