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Abortion Discussion, Part the Fourth

robindch

...continuing on from previous threads on abortion (abortion part 1, part 2 and part 3).

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ohnonotgmail

end of the road wrote: »

that is not correct. it is you who has made that claim which is inaccurate.

i have ignored it because it's irrelevant and is a line of going nowhere. nothing to do with your claim of me supposebly being caught out by contradictions which hasn't happened. so i will not be answering this specific question as it is not abortion related.

What evidence do you have to support any of what you are saying?

Cabaal

splinter65 wrote: »

You’ll have your hands full trying to silence that volume of voices.

You honestly think that many people are will to protest outside GPs and hospitals?if you do then you are in cloud cuckoo land.

Most people see the zealots outside hospitals picketing with rosary etc as nut bags. They are a very small minority fringe group.

amcalester

end of the road wrote: »

i have ignored it because it's irrelevant and is a line of discussion going nowhere. nothing to do with your claim of me supposebly being caught out by contradictions which hasn't happened. so i will not be answering this specific question as it is not abortion related.

That’s very disingenuous, the topic also includes protests and you are against limiting individuals or groups right to protest, except when there is a strike involved.

You have opposing viewpoints depending on the situation. That’s a contradiction.

Same as your view that abortion is wrong, except in cases of rape. Or if it happens abroad.

Very inconsistent viewpoints.

Of course I could be wrong and you do support people’s right to cross a picket.

SusieBlue

end of the road wrote: »

presumably it might make at least 1 person see the reality of what they are doing. perhapse an actual protester would be the best to give you an answer however.

Ah yes, cause all these silly women signed up for abortions with no idea what they were getting themselves into and did no research on the procedure whatsoever.
They probably thought it was the latest beauty treatment lols!

But luckily you’ll be standing nearby on hand to inform them of the ‘reality’ that they’re evil murderers.
Saving them from themselves, because they don’t know any better and are incapable of making an informed choice about their own medical care.

You and your ilk are modern day saints, really.

ohnonotgmail

amcalester wrote: »

That’s very disingenuous, the topic also includes protests and you are against limiting individuals or groups right to protest, except when there is a strike involved.

You have opposing viewpoints depending on the situation. That’s a contradiction.

Same as your view that abortion is wrong, except in cases of rape. Or if it happens abroad.

Very inconsistent viewpoints.

Of course I could be wrong and you do support people’s right to cross a picket.

the word you are looking for is hypocritical

end of the road

eviltwin wrote: »

So explain to me how an "abortion is murder" placard is of any help to the woman in crisis

i answered that in post 117.

amcalester wrote: »

That’s very disingenuous, the topic also includes protests and you are against limiting individuals or groups right to protest, except when there is a strike involved.

You have opposing viewpoints depending on the situation. That’s a contradiction.

Same as your view that abortion is wrong, except in cases of rape. Or if it happens abroad.

Very inconsistent viewpoints.

Of course I could be wrong and you do support people’s right to cross a picket.

abortion that happens abroad is 100% wrong. i have never stated otherwise.

SusieBlue wrote: »

Ah yes, cause all these silly women signed up for abortions with no idea what they were getting themselves into and did no research on the procedure whatsoever.
They probably thought it was the latest beauty treatment lols!

But luckily you’ll be standing nearby on hand to inform them of the ‘reality’ that they’re evil murderers.
Saving them from themselves, because they don’t know any better and are incapable of making an informed choice about their own medical care.

You and your ilk are modern day saints, really.

i am not involved in the protests myself. nobody is a saint. however yes i do believe the protesters simply wish to right a wrong and are mostly good people at heart.

amcalester

end of the road wrote: »

abortion that happens abroad is 100% wrong. i have never stated otherwise.

Apologies I was under the impression, and I may be remembering it incorrectly, that you supported a woman’s right to travel for the purposes of acquiring an abortion.

But regardless, you say 100% wrong, only you’ll make an exception for rape cases.

end of the road

amcalester wrote: »

Apologies I was under the impression, and I may be remembering it incorrectly, that you supported a woman’s right to travel for the purposes of acquiring an abortion.

But regardless, you say 100% wrong, only you’ll make an exception for rape cases.

no it is FFA cases or where the mother's life is in danger. i separate those out from abortion on demand.

[Deleted User]

end of the road wrote: »

that is not correct. it is you who has made that claim which is inaccurate.

i have ignored it because it's irrelevant and is a line of discussion going nowhere. nothing to do with your claim of me supposebly being caught out by contradictions which hasn't happened. so i will not be answering this specific question as it is not abortion related.

It's very much abortion related, in terms of your posts, but you don't seem to have the answer or don't want to answer.

robarmstrong

end of the road wrote: »

perhapse it might make them realise the reality that killing an unborn human being who is healthy, and when the mother's life isn't in danger, is completely wrong and unjustifiable.

So what about a healthy unborn human being who was conceived out of rape, why are you so “welcoming” (in layman’s terms) of a termination in the case of rape?

Why does the scenario of conception differentiate your views on abortion when both mother and unborn are healthy?

Why is the woman who aborts a healthy child conceived out of consensual intercourse a killer, yet the woman who aborts a healthy child out of rape, not a killer?

SusieBlue

end of the road wrote: »

i am not involved in the protests myself. nobody is a saint. however yes i do believe the protesters simply wish to right a wrong and are mostly good people at heart.

How totally patronizing.
The women seeking terminations don’t need the intervention of any soapboxers.
It’s no ones business except the woman’s and nobody has the authority to determine whether the choice she is making is wrong or right except her.

They should simply live their own lives as they see fit and stop involving themselves in other peoples private business.

uptherebels

end of the road wrote: »

perhapse it might make them realise the reality that killing an unborn human being who is healthy, and when the mother's life isn't in danger, is completely wrong and unjustifiable.

You need to understand the difference between your opinion and reality

uptherebels

end of the road wrote: »

i answered that in post 117.

abortion that happens abroad is 100% wrong. i have never stated otherwise.

i am not involved in the protests myself. nobody is a saint. however yes i do believe the protesters simply wish to right a wrong and are mostly good people at heart.

Then they would be protesting outside the dail, where the people with the power to "right the wrong" are.

end of the road

SusieBlue wrote: »

How totally patronizing.
The women seeking terminations don’t need the intervention of any soapboxers.
It’s no ones business except the woman’s and nobody has the authority to determine whether the choice she is making is wrong or right except her.

They should simply live their own lives as they see fit and stop involving themselves in other peoples private business.

obviously that is not possible given the life of an unborn human being is being ended, most likely unnecessarily. while such continues to happen there will be people who are opposed to it. that is just how it is

uptherebels

amcalester wrote: »

Apologies I was under the impression, and I may be remembering it incorrectly, that you supported a woman’s right to travel for the purposes of acquiring an abortion.

But regardless, you say 100% wrong, only you’ll make an exception for rape cases.

That poster has already clarified that rape isn't a reason for an abortion.

end of the road

uptherebels wrote: »

Then they would be protesting outside the dail, where the people with the power to "right the wrong" are.

they can do that as well if that is what they wish to do.

[Deleted User]

uptherebels wrote: »

That poster has already clarified that rape isn't a reason for an abortion.

In their opinion, but it's also their opinion that their views take precedence over the health care of everyone else along with their freedom of choice.

robarmstrong

uptherebels wrote: »

That poster has already clarified that rape isn't a reason for an abortion.

The poster in particular has flip flopped numerous times on actually making a decision on "allowing" abortion in rape and incestuous scenarios, for very, very obvious reasons, they are declining to actually commit 100% to a statement.

amcalester

uptherebels wrote: »

That poster has already clarified that rape isn't a reason for an abortion.

Yes, seems I got that wrong.

It doesn’t explain his contradictory views on protesting.

robarmstrong

end of the road wrote: »

perhapse it might make them realise the reality that killing an unborn human being who is healthy, and when the mother's life isn't in danger, is completely wrong and unjustifiable in my opinion

Fixed your post.

uptherebels

DubInMeath wrote: »

In their opinion, but it's also their opinion that their views take precedence over the health care of everyone else along with their freedom of choice.

sorry i meant to say in their opinion, i don't agree with it.

uptherebels

end of the road wrote: »

they can do that as well if that is what they wish to do.

but why aren't they? because they cant try and impede access if camped outside the dail;)

SusieBlue

end of the road wrote: »

obviously that is not possible given the life of an unborn human being is being ended, most likely unnecessarily. while such continues to happen there will be people who are opposed to it. that is just how it is

Talk about self righteousness.
You can oppose it all you want, you just can’t interfere or harass people who choose differently to you.
They aren’t breaking any laws and are procuring a legal, standard medical procedure.
That’s just how it is.

If you must protest, which I totally support, do so on O’Connell St, Dáil Éireann or outside your local TD office.
Leave the women & couples outside maternity hospitals & GP clinics alone.

The fact that you even feel entitled to have a say in other peoples private matters is astounding.

uptherebels

amcalester wrote: »

Yes, seems I got that wrong.

It doesn’t explain his contradictory views on protesting.

They have also claimed never to have contradicted themselves in all their posts on boards:eek::eek:

robarmstrong

EOTR - if you say "abortion is murder", you're saying that it's the unlawful killing of another human being, correct?

Except abortion is legal and legislated for, with the definition of human being not applying to those who are unborn.

How is it murder? Is it a fact that it's murder (i.e it is defined and set out in the constitution or law that terminating an unborn is murder) or is it your opinion that it is murder?

If it is in fact murder, how come we aren't arresting all of these murderers?

amcalester

uptherebels wrote: »

They have also claimed never to have contradicted themselves in all their posts on boards:eek::eek:

I honestly believe that that poster is a very dishonest poster and posts blatant contradictory statements and then when called out on it either refuses to engage or runs away and hides.

end of the road

uptherebels wrote: »

but why aren't they? because they cant try and impede access if camped outside the dail

i wouldn't think that is the reason, assuming they have decided they won't protest outside the dail. i think you would be best putting the questions to someone involved in the protests who could give you a definite answer.

SusieBlue wrote: »

Talk about self righteousness.
You can oppose it all you want, you just can’t interfere or harass people who choose differently to you.
They aren’t breaking any laws and are procuring a legal, standard medical procedure.
That’s just how it is.

If you must protest, which I totally support, do so on O’Connell St, Dáil Éireann or outside your local TD office.
Leave the women & couples outside maternity hospitals & GP clinics alone.

The fact that you even feel entitled to have a say in other peoples private matters is astounding.

i don't interfere with or harass anyone nor am i involved in the protests. however people who wish to protest an issue will generally protest outside the buildings where the issue they are against is taking place, that is standard protest practice whether one likes it or agrees with it.

uptherebels

end of the road wrote: »

i wouldn't think that is the reason, assuming they have decided they won't protest outside the dail. i think you would be best putting the questions to someone involved in the protests who could give you a definite answer.

But yet you claim they are 100% honest about their intentions? So while not being a protestor you know with certainty their intentions for acting but haven't a clue about their inactions?

end of the road

uptherebels wrote: »

But yet you claim they are 100% honest about their intentions? So while not being a protestor you know with certainty their intentions for acting but haven't a clue about their inactions?

yes . as i see it, the majority of people get involved in protest movements for reasons of good. they feel strongly about the issue and want to change things. they care and want to bring about the greater good.

volchitsa

end of the road wrote: »

yes . as i see it, the majority of people get involved in protest movements for reasons of good. they feel strongly about the issue and want to change things. they care and want to bring about the greater good.

The white supremacists who wanted to stop black children being allowed into "white" schools in the US would have thought that described them to a T.

Doesn't mean it's true though. What they are doing is as important as why they think they are doing it, and intimidating and demeaning women at a vulnerable moment in their lives makes that a dubious call.