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Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

goz83

Mod Note: I've discussed with site admins, due to the current legal situation recommendations cannot be made for use of electric scooters on public roads in Ireland, but can be made for use on private property. However, we will allow discussion of e-scooters for purchase for use on private property, and other jurisdictions such as France/Germany where they are legal for use. This restriction will be lifted as soon as the legal situation changes, which will hopefully be soon.

I was thinking of getting one of those xiaomi m365 folding scooters to cover the last 5 kilometres of the journey as I come into the city and traffic gets mad. I am looking for peoples experiences with them.

I understand they are in a bit of a legal grey area, but you need to push this scooter to get going, so technically it doesn’t operate on mechanical power alone which is what the rsa site mentions as the definition of an mpv.

I’ll be travelling about 15km each way from urban to city. Due to a back injury, I can’t spend an hour stuck in traffic twice per day. I can’t tolerate public transport and it would be much more expensive (over €100 per month, compared to about €5 per month in my Leaf and m365).

So, my plan would be to drive about 10km and park the car before hitting the city centre. Parking would be free as I would be well outside the cc. I would then scoot the rest of the way to my destination and do the reverse on my return journey. I wouldn’t be stuck in traffic for too long and the range of the scooter should easily cover the return journey without destination charging. The scooter will cost around €400 to buy and claims 30km per charge...I am expecting 15.

What do you think?

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zom

...Ghost... wrote: »

Do you know of any cyclists with insurance? They zoom by a hell of a lot faster than most scooter riders.

Sure you can do 140 km/h on bicycle - unregistered and uninsured. So all cars and motorcycles that go slower (some small or old ones) don't need registration and insurance too ??

prinzeugen

...Ghost... wrote: »

I completely disagree with you there and as a rider, I can confirm they do have enough torque to move from a stand still. I have checked this myself by scooting a slight incline and almost coming to a complete stop (going less than 1kph) I could engage the throttle and move off quickly. I am also at the vehicles max weight recommendation. Some youtubers have also managed to remove the push to start requirement through firmware changes.

So they are MPVs. Case closed judge!

YouTube is not the law!

prinzeugen

biko wrote: »

Kinda cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_XVcYVyi60

Perfect example of why they need to be banned.

...Ghost...

prinzeugen wrote: »

So they are MPVs. Case closed judge!

:pac::pac:

A bicycle can have a petrol engine and tank installed which makes them illegal. It's an illegal modification. If someone modifies a push scooter so that it can go on its own power without human effort from a stop, then it's an MPV. Otherwise, it's not.

YouTube is not the law!

Good source for information. Nobody here has implied it's the law. Calm down...breathe and relax. It's Easter.

prinzeugen wrote: »

Perfect example of why they need to be banned.

Because nobody ever fell from a bicycle and injured themselves?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JROM1N8V4u4

beauf

...Ghost... wrote: »

...
Do you know of any cyclists with insurance? They zoom by a hell of a lot faster than most scooter riders.

Lots.

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/membership/insurance

tuxy

Exactly, most cyclists that are members of a club will have 3rd party insurance.

beauf

...Ghost... wrote: »

:...
A bicycle can have a petrol engine and tank installed which makes them illegal. ...

It's not the modification that's illegal. It's just no longer legal to be used on the road. Regardless of being push to start. Not that the legislation mentions anything about starting.

tuxy

In theory you could make a petrol powered bike or electric scooter road legal if there was a company willing to insure them. However the liability is considered far too great.

beauf

tuxy wrote: »

In theory you could make a petrol powered bike or electric scooter road legal if there was a company willing to insure them. However the liability is considered far too great.

You'd also need to tax them. Which you can't as they don't have a class. (I assume).

tuxy

Maybe you could tax the bike under mopeds <50cc, the electric scooter would definitely need a new classification or exemption.

...Ghost...

beauf wrote: »

Lots.

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/membership/insurance

Availability of insurance does not answer the question. I don't know any cycling club members, or cyclists with insurance. It's probably safe to say that less than 1% of cyclists have insurance.

tuxy wrote: »

Exactly, most cyclists that are members of a club will have 3rd party insurance.

But the vast, vast., vast majority of cyclists are not cycling club members and will not have any insurance.

ED E

Again, Ghost. You're talking ****e.

CI had 26,305 members last year. To be a member at any level includes insurance. Thats not 1% of cyclists.

tuxy wrote: »

Maybe you could tax the bike under mopeds <50cc, the electric scooter would definitely need a new classification or exemption.

You'd need to be certified by an engineer too and meet all the requirements. The end result wouldnt look much like a bike at all.

beauf

...Ghost... wrote: »

Availability of insurance does not answer the question. I don't know any cycling club members, or cyclists with insurance. It's probably safe to say that less than 1% of cyclists have insurance....

It answers the question you asked.

You asked did we know any. The answer was yes lots.

...Ghost...

ED E wrote: »

Again, Ghost. You're talking ****e.

CI had 26,305 members last year. To be a member at any level includes insurance. Thats not 1% of cyclists.

Thanks for the data ED. Are you capable of having a respectful discussion? Or does disagreement with you qualify as sh1te?

I was obviously exaggerating, but now looking at your CI figure, I don't think I am that far off. Only 26k insured cyclists? There's a whole lot more uninsured. How many cyclists are there in Ireland? Do we only count the ones using the road? Accidents happen on footpaths and parks too. Even a kid can cause serious injury on a bicycle.

We have about 5 million people in Ireland. If 1 in 5 cycle (fair assumption), thats ~2.6% insured.

...Ghost...

beauf wrote: »

It answers the question you asked.

You asked did we know any. The answer was yes lots.

I take your point, but it's not really what I was asking. I know a lot of cyclists and I don't know of a single one who is insured, or in a cycling club. Would be interesting to see detailed stats on number of cyclists insured compared to total number of cyclists.

rubadub

...Ghost... wrote: »

Availability of insurance does not answer the question.

you asked a question, you got the answer (and were obviously pissed off as you expected a "no") -then you come back with this shite, it is indeed pure shite

beauf

...Ghost... wrote: »

I take your point, but it's not really what I was asking. I know a lot of cyclists and I don't know of a single one who is insured, or in a cycling club. Would be interesting to see detailed stats on number of cyclists insured compared to total number of cyclists.

You're off on a wild goose chase. (as usual) The issue is you don't want insurance for eScooters. So insurance for cyclists is complete dead end. Its also a bad idea to go down the route because lots of people yap on about insurance for cyclists. Because they don't want cyclists in their way when driving. So encouraging those flat earthers is a bad idea.

The whole issue of cycling insurance (if you'd done any research about it) is more about public liability insurance. https://www.ch.ch/en/cycling-switzerland/ which is more common elsewhere.

So keep it up and you'll start a movement who want that for eScooters.

Garibaldi?

I would love a scooter. However I've seen a few travel at some speed, to the extent that they could seriously injure someone if they struck them. It's a legal minefield!

Martynet

Garibaldi? wrote: »

I would love a scooter. However I've seen a few travel at some speed, to the extent that they could seriously injure someone if they struck them. It's a legal minefield!

Cars and bikes are much faster. And is there a speed limit for bicycles? I ride my bicycle at 40-50 km/h when there's nice long downhill. So why there should be a speed limit for escooters? Some scooters are perfectly safe at higher speeds. I would limit the speed only on a pavement - 6-7 km/h. But on the road, same speed limits for everyone.

tuxy

What's the stopping distance like on a scooter? I don't see how you could get most your weight onto the back to stop as fast as a bike but am open to correction

This image is a bit exaggerated but could you get your weight behind the back axle on a scooter?

bigslick

beauf wrote: »

Lots.

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/membership/insurance

Seems to me this insurance only covers Personal Accidents and Public Liability when, "you are training, competing or officiating in an approved activities of Cycling Ireland.", and therefore would not cover day to day commuting or use. But I am open to correction on this as this may be considered Training (?).

With regards to the video posted from Israel, where they are closer to implementing officially, it did seem to cover the model's accident in detail and how awful it was (in medically induced coma, lucky to be alive) however given that she was wearing no helmet I think the same incident could have happened on a pedal bike.

In my view, as it stands the scooter itself is illegal to use on public roads. I wouldnt debate this, and hope the government can review this with their best judgement. I use one on a daily basis in cycle lanes, and am very cautious anytime I have to cross over pavements (moving at walking pace, hopping off if any pedestrians are oncoming etc) and have not run into any issues so far with individuals or the Gardai.

I think the question here is not if they are illegal or not (they are as it stands) but moreso what is the blockade in making them legal if they seem to solve a transport issue? That should be what we are concentrating on rather than back and forth around legal loopholes. They provide a great short to medium transport link for individuals. Is it the speed of the scooter, as I am constantly outpaced by cyclists every morning and evening. Is it the usage of them on pavements? I am not 100% sure this occurs more than cyclists in my personal experience over past 9 months.

I think like other forms of personal transport (Bikes, manual scooters, cars etc) the main danger of the device is the user. If they are used considerately and safely there should be minimal issues, and a great impact in our public transport network (less stress).

antodeco

tuxy wrote: »

What's the stopping distance like on a scooter? I don't see how you could get most your weight onto the back to stop as fast as a bike but am open to correction

This image is a bit exaggerated but could you get your weight behind the back axle on a scooter?

My scooter has a footbrake on the back wheel. If I put my full weight onto the wheel it will lock the tyre (leaving a nice black streak of rubber!).

ted1

Martynet wrote: »

Cars and bikes are much faster. And is there a speed limit for bicycles? I ride my bicycle at 40-50 km/h when there's nice long downhill. So why there should be a speed limit for escooters? Some scooters are perfectly safe at higher speeds. I would limit the speed only on a pavement - 6-7 km/h. But on the road, same speed limits for everyone.

Your bike has 70mm wheels that can cope with bad and uneven road surfaces. The wheels on scooters are to small to cope with much of the road surfaces

tuxy

antodeco wrote: »

My scooter has a footbrake on the back wheel. If I put my full weight onto the wheel it will lock the tyre (leaving a nice black streak of rubber!).

I understand how you won't have the same modulation with the breaking method on the scooter but how do braking distances compare?

Martynet

tuxy wrote: »

What's the stopping distance like on a scooter? I don't see how you could get most your weight onto the back to stop as fast as a bike but am open to correction

This image is a bit exaggerated but could you get your weight behind the back axle on a scooter?

I cycled to work for 7 years and had a really good bike. Now with scooter, it's not a big differecne when breaking. I always use both breaks at the same time and lower my position a bit too. So I actually feel safer than on a bike...

Martynet

ted1 wrote: »

Your bike has 70mm wheels that can cope with bad and uneven road surfaces. The wheels on scooters are to small to cope with much of the road surfaces

I have 2.5" x 10" tyres at the moment and also great suspension on both wheels. And I can tell you, it's more comfortbale than my hardtail with FOX fork and 29" wheels

...Ghost...

rubadub wrote: »

you asked a question, you got the answer (and were obviously pissed off as you expected a "no") -then you come back with this shite, it is indeed pure shite

I accepted the point made by the poster about insured club members, but you were too busy typing your unhelpful and rude reply to notice that.

I don't get annoyed by internet strangers and keyboard warriors regurgitating the same tired arguments I have answered to multiple times. I also didn't expect a "no", because the majority of people don't back down when wrong (not saying the other poster was wrong btw), especially on the internet under the cloak of anonymity. So I expected him/her to say that they did indeed personally know a number of insured cyclists. I just would not have believed it.

beauf wrote: »

You're off on a wild goose chase. (as usual) The issue is you don't want insurance for eScooters. So insurance for cyclists is complete dead end. Its also a bad idea to go down the route because lots of people yap on about insurance for cyclists. Because they don't want cyclists in their way when driving. So encouraging those flat earthers is a bad idea.

The whole issue of cycling insurance (if you'd done any research about it) is more about public liability insurance. https://www.ch.ch/en/cycling-switzerland/ which is more common elsewhere.

So keep it up and you'll start a movement who want that for eScooters.

Actually I have problem at all with insurance for e-scooters. I don't see where you picked up the idea that I was against it.

tuxy wrote: »

What's the stopping distance like on a scooter? I don't see how you could get most your weight onto the back to stop as fast as a bike but am open to correction

This image is a bit exaggerated but could you get your weight behind the back axle on a scooter?

I don't know the stopping distance, but it would depend on the riders weight and the model of the scooter (as well as road conditions). I own an M365. My speed is usually 15-20km/h. The M365 has a hand brake which manually connects to the rear disc brake and electronically applies regenerative braking force in the front wheel hub. It stops quite quickly and with a low centre of gravity, going over the bar is highly unlikely when braking. I tend to have my weight to the rear of the chassis, I find it more comfortable.

Grassey

Martynet wrote: »

Cars and bikes are much faster.

I was doing 35km/h down the bikelane in Churchtown last week. Was ghosted by a scooter that just appeared to my right in the bicycle lane travelling far in excess of that speed!!! He sped off into the distance at a speed I wouldn't be able to maintain on the bike!

Martynet

ted1 wrote: »

Your bike has 70mm wheels that can cope with bad and uneven road surfaces. The wheels on scooters are to small to cope with much of the road surfaces

Yes I do feel safer on this than on my bike. It's the best thing I ever bought and it's the only way how I can get to work in time

Martynet

Grassey wrote: »

I was doing 35km/h down the bikelane in Churchtown last week. Was ghosted by a scooter that just appeared to my right in the bicycle lane travelling far in excess of that speed!!! He sped off into the distance at a speed I wouldn't be able to maintain on the bike!

Well if he was moving faster than 50 km/h, that's just wrong. My average speed is around 28 km/h. Sometimes when it's safe I also overtake cyclists, especially going up the hill and the speed could go between 40-45 km/h, but only for that overtaiking moment... Than I keep it down around 35-40 again. Just to be safe. Only when I can't see any bikes miles ahead, I go a bit faster.