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mark of the beast

harrylittle

Mod: moved from Christianity june 11 2020

On the late late show last friday it had a guy with a chip in his right hand and I immediatly thought of revelation 13 . This is probably the prelude to the mark of the beast as stated 2000 years ago in the bible that would happen in the end of days.

"The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name."

"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name."

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AtomicHorror

harrylittle wrote: »

On the late late show last friday it had a guy with a chip in his right hand and I immediatly thought of revelation 13 . This is probably the prelude to the mark of the beast as stated 2000 years ago in the bible that would happen in the end of days.

"The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name."

"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name."

So to summarise, if any person faced with the choice of worshipping "the beast" or being killed chooses not to die, then they'll be tortured horribly forever while Jesus Himself watches? And if they are forced against their will to carry "the mark", then similarly they'll be tortured horribly forever while Jesus Himself watches?

I can see why you'd want to avoid anything that might in fact be "the mark", but frankly there's so little by way of a useful descriptions in Revelation that it seems like you're bound to miss or misinterpret something. I mean, wearing a Fitbit with contactless payments on it could qualify. This level of capriciousness pretty much guarantees you an infinite future of ceaseless agony. Under the watchful eye of a man widely depicted as being a nice guy, no less.

branie2

The mark could be a tattoo

recedite

harrylittle wrote: »

On the late late show last friday it had a guy with a chip in his right hand and I immediatly thought of revelation 13 . This is probably the prelude to the mark of the beast as stated 2000 years ago in the bible that would happen in the end of days.

I always eat chips with my right hand.
So, just thinking... if the fish is the symbol of early Christianty, and chips symbolise the beast, then fish and chips must symbolise the eternal struggle of good V evil.
Like salt and vinegar. Where vinegar is obviously the good guy, because the nasty sodomites were turned into pillars of salt. Whereas Jesus turned water into wine, which then becomes vinegar by itself.

harrylittle

branie2 wrote: »

The mark could be a tattoo

Probably both a tattoo and a chip.

A tatoo to identify who has taken the mark and you need the chip to be able to buy and sell.

harrylittle

AtomicHorror wrote: »

So to summarise, if any person faced with the choice of worshipping "the beast" or being killed chooses not to die, then they'll be tortured horribly forever while Jesus Himself watches? And if they are forced against their will to carry "the mark", then similarly they'll be tortured horribly forever while Jesus Himself watches?

I can see why you'd want to avoid anything that might in fact be "the mark", but frankly there's so little by way of a useful descriptions in Revelation that it seems like you're bound to miss or misinterpret something. I mean, wearing a Fitbit with contactless payments on it could qualify. This level t warning of capriciousness pretty much guarantees you an infinite future of ceaseless agony. Under the watchful eye of a man widely depicted as being a nice guy, no less.

I think everyone will be warned beforehand not to take the mark during the great warning but after that warning its down to each individuals free will.

some people will still go ahead and take the mark because they want to follow the anti christ an everything he promises and the sinfull lifestyle he will promote. others will take the mark because they don't want to loose their wealth and positions but ultimatly it will be the last test to mankind of luke 9

"For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it."

Wayne Gorsky

harrylittle wrote: »

On the late late show last friday it had a guy with a chip in his right hand and I immediatly thought of revelation 13 . This is probably the prelude to the mark of the beast as stated 2000 years ago in the bible that would happen in the end of days.

"The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name."

"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name."

I have had similar thoughts in recent years, with all the tracking and RFID chips and all…feels like we may well be living in the end time...

two wheels good

Wayne Gorsky wrote: »

I have had similar thoughts in recent years, with all the tracking and RFID chips and all…feels like we may well be living in the end time...

Should the surveillance and tracking by tech firms such as Google and Facebook be encouraged to hasten the arrival of the rapture or should it be resisted, or even halted, to prolong mankind's time on earth an give us more time to repent and cast aside our smart phones and social media?

jmreire

Had to pay a bill recently for a purchase, so wrote a cheque....the person receiving it, held it in his hand, and looked long and hard at it, then at me with a quizzical expression on his face.....A CHEQUE... say he. Been a long time since I saw one of those.. so I asked if it was Ok? and how do people normally pay? Its ok he said.... but normally by credit / debit card. The point I am making is that the amount of transaction's now taking place electronically is staggering.....and when / if it becomes universally compulsory, IE: embedded chip, then we will have totally lost control. And this will full fill the prophesy, IMHO.

antiskeptic

harrylittle wrote: »

On the late late show last friday it had a guy with a chip in his right hand and I immediatly thought of revelation 13 . This is probably the prelude to the mark of the beast as stated 2000 years ago in the bible that would happen in the end of days.

"The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name."

"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name."

Loath as I am to predict end times (given the perpetual failure o'er the years to get it right), I'm inclined to suppose we're not a million miles away.

I was reading a piece by a Prof Jem Bendell who, in his preparation for delivery of his inaugural lecture, reviewed the latest science on climate change. And concluded that the car had long since gone over the edge of the cliff and that talk of sustainability was talk of applying the brakes on the way down.

He concluded that civilization would be wiped out in our lifetimes by climate change driven events (population shift, food shortages, the resulting wars).

Whither or not he's on the button re short timescales, I can't see how we can dodge this bullet. The level of change required to save ourselves: effectively overturning our economic model of ever increase consumption in jig time is a sheer impossibility. Indeed, the developing world is clambouring to get aboard the Western-style gravy train.

Too much momentum, so little time.

A government controlled way of ensuring that only certain people can keep head above water strikes as bang on the money for how things will unpack

Ferajacka

I personally cannot wait for the chip to be introduced, it'll make it easier to travel, pay for things and track all medical and revenue records.Now if this is the mark of the beast as "predicted" 2000 years ago I find this facinating that people of that time could have insight into such technologies that might come in, years later.

jmreire

Ferajacka wrote: »

I personally cannot wait for the chip to be introduced, it'll make it easier to travel, pay for things and track all medical and revenue records.Now if this is the mark of the beast as "predicted" 2000 years ago I find this facinating that people of that time could have insight into such technologies that might come in, years later.

If you believe in God, then it's possible, so it very much depends on the individual. Personally, I want nothing to do with imbedded chips, We are controlled enough as it is without our every move and action being monitored.. and what will happen when they will not only monitor what you are thinking, but can control that too????

Cabaal

jmreire wrote: »

If you believe in God, then it's possible, so it very much depends on the individual. Personally, I want nothing to do with imbedded chips, We are controlled enough as it is without our every move and action being monitored.. and what will happen when they will not only monitor what you are thinking, but can control that too????

Doesn't god apparently do that already?
monitor and judge what you are thinking.....

jmreire

Cabaal wrote: »

Doesn't god apparently do that already?
monitor and judge what you are thinking.....

Yes, if you want to look at it like that... BUT we have free will to make choices, something we are told that not even the Angels in Heaven have. Every day, in modern society, we are being bombarded with a advertisements , buy this, try that, look at this etc. and subconsciously, it works. It's well researched, and it works. Think about that Cambridge Analytica in the context of Brexit...and that's why I am 100% opposed to any kind of "Hard Wired" controls being embedded under my skin. We are under enough control as it is.

jmreire

AtomicHorror wrote: »

So to summarise, if any person faced with the choice of worshipping "the beast" or being killed chooses not to die, then they'll be tortured horribly forever while Jesus Himself watches? And if they are forced against their will to carry "the mark", then similarly they'll be tortured horribly forever while Jesus Himself watches?

I can see why you'd want to avoid anything that might in fact be "the mark", but frankly there's so little by way of a useful descriptions in Revelation that it seems like you're bound to miss or misinterpret something. I mean, wearing a Fitbit with contactless payments on it could qualify. This level of capriciousness pretty much guarantees you an infinite future of ceaseless agony. Under the watchful eye of a man widely depicted as being a nice guy, no less.

Definitely fits the bill for me...world wide, we are now so dependent on computers and the internet...hacking has been elevated to the status of an attack on a country, on the same level as a military strike. On a business level,,it would be considered an economic attack. So more and more we are even as individual's controlled by the internet,,,,so this embedded chip fit's the bill 100%. Any kind of business transaction? Show you hand to the scanner. Where are you now, this very minute? The chip is tracking you. Who are you speaking to? The chip know's and is monitoring the conversation. Even without the chip..all of what I have said above is true. China being the most obvious Country,,, but to think that China is the only Country, is a bit naive. So yes, IMHO, the chip fits the bill as the mark of the beast refereed to in the prophesies

Cabaal

jmreire wrote: »

Yes, if you want to look at it like that... BUT we have free will to make choices, something we are told that not even the Angels in Heaven have. Every day, in modern society, we are being bombarded with a advertisements , buy this, try that, look at this etc. and subconsciously, it works. It's well researched, and it works. Think about that Cambridge Analytica in the context of Brexit...and that's why I am 100% opposed to any kind of "Hard Wired" controls being embedded under my skin. We are under enough control as it is.

Its a little ironic that many religious people don't see the irony.

The religious are bombarded with how they'll burn in hell if they do this or that. Thousands of years of experience of religious organisations being pushed on people daily.

They see nothing wrong with non-religious being forced to use hospitals and schools which are tax payer funded but based in a catholic religious ethos.

I suppose having stuff pushed on you is only good if you agree with it eh
:pac:

Hobosan

Dogs don't have opposable thumbs so can't do the Devils bidding, but they are a man's best friend, so they chip them first to prime us for chipping.

It's so transparent, as long as you can spot the signs.

jmreire

Cabaal wrote: »

Its a little ironic that many religious people don't see the irony.

The religious are bombarded with how they'll burn in hell if they do this or that. Thousands of years of experience of religious organisations being pushed on people daily.

They see nothing wrong with non-religious being forced to use hospitals and schools which are tax payer funded but based in a catholic religious ethos.

I suppose having stuff pushed on you is only good if you agree with it eh
:pac:

There was a time in this Country, when the only Schools and Hospitals available were run by Religious Order's.. there simply was no one else there. Sure they were paid for by the state ( which was pretty impoverished at the time) But the Christian Brothers, Teaching and Nursing Nuns got very little in salaries....it was their vocation. Basically, they worked for nothing.(which was all the state could afford) For sure, we could not afford to educate everyone, and pay secular teaching staff salaries....Without the Religious, Education would have been limited to those who could afford it. The bad behavior of some religious has been well documented, so I am not going to comment on it. But it's very easy to forget that we owe the Religious a debt too. Now fast forward to the new multi-cultural Ireland of today...People have choice's that did not exist back in the past, and they can accept or reject Religious teachings,including the religious concept of Heaven or Hell....a burning fire for all eternity....which is pretty much laughed at these days. But what if it's true? As for Religious emblems / icons visible in schools and hospitals, it has never bothered me in the slightest what has been on the walls of any building that I have been in, and that include's different Countries with different religions.

mrslancaster

The OP is about a quote from the bible. Just wondering if the mark referred to is mentioned in any other religion / religious books or is it only relevant to christianity?

branie2

I think it's just Christianity.

Hotblack Desiato

jmreire wrote: »

The point I am making is that the amount of transaction's now taking place electronically is staggering...

You see those funny looking numbers on the bottom of the cheque?

They're so it can be processed electronically.

Those numbers have been there for 50 years now.

Hotblack Desiato

jmreire wrote: »

But the Christian Brothers, Teaching and Nursing Nuns got very little in salaries....it was their vocation.

Ah not this again.

They got paid by the state same as a lay teacher or nurse. Their decision to give up their salaries to the orders was their own affair.

BloodBath

jmreire wrote: »

There was a time in this Country, when the only Schools and Hospitals available were run by Religious Order's.. there simply was no one else there. Sure they were paid for by the state ( which was pretty impoverished at the time) But the Christian Brothers, Teaching and Nursing Nuns got very little in salaries....it was their vocation. Basically, they worked for nothing.(which was all the state could afford) For sure, we could not afford to educate everyone, and pay secular teaching staff salaries....Without the Religious, Education would have been limited to those who could afford it. The bad behavior of some religious has been well documented, so I am not going to comment on it. But it's very easy to forget that we owe the Religious a debt too. Now fast forward to the new multi-cultural Ireland of today...People have choice's that did not exist back in the past, and they can accept or reject Religious teachings,including the religious concept of Heaven or Hell....a burning fire for all eternity....which is pretty much laughed at these days. But what if it's true? As for Religious emblems / icons visible in schools and hospitals, it has never bothered me in the slightest what has been on the walls of any building that I have been in, and that include's different Countries with different religions.

The majority of self professed Christians know nothing about the bible or it's teachings. A bunch of ignorant hypocrites. There is no mention of Hell in the bible. The various words that got translated into hell were about places on earth.

The bible was also written by dozens of human men over thousands of years. Not god. The majority of the stories pre date Christianity and the other major modern day religions. While there is some truth to it there is also a lot of fiction.

Practically every single Christian religious holiday is a so called Pagan festival that predates Christianity by thousands of years the majority of which are based around sun worship and the movements of the sun.

jmreire

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

You see those funny looking numbers on the bottom of the cheque?

They're so it can be processed electronically.

Those numbers have been there for 50 years now.

I don't think that what was available 50 years ago, could even remotely compare with present day technology,,,Sure cheque's are still legal, but when was the last time that you used one?

jmreire

BloodBath wrote: »

The majority of self professed Christians know nothing about the bible or it's teachings. A bunch of ignorant hypocrites. There is no mention of Hell in the bible. The various words that got translated into hell were about places on earth.

The bible was also written by dozens of human men over thousands of years. Not god. The majority of the stories pre date Christianity and the other major modern day religions. While there is some truth to it there is also a lot of fiction.

Practically every single Christian religious holiday is a so called Pagan festival that predates Christianity by thousands of years the majority of which are based around sun worship and the movements of the sun.

Well, I was educated by the Christian Brothers, and what ever I learnt about God and Religion, comes from them. But what category that put's me into according to you, I don't know.
Some samples of hell from the bible:
The children of the kingdom will be driven out into the darkness where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth (Mt 8:12).
Depart from me, you accursed, into that eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt 25:41).
These will pay the penalty of eternal ruin, separated from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power (2 Thes 1:9).
God did not spare the angels who fell into sin; he thrust them down to hell, chained them there in the abyss, to await their sentence in torment (2 Pt 2:4).
The smoke of the fire that torments them will rise forever and ever, and there will be no relief day or night for those who worship the beast or its image or accept the mark of its name (Rv 14:11).
No matter what day of the year you pick..some where in the World, its a holiday or festival of some sort.Sure Christian holidays supplanted local custom's, there is no argument about that.But what is important is that pagan rite's were replaced by Christian ones.
As I was taught back then, the Bible was the Word of God....and I'm fine with that.

jmreire

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Ah not this again.

They got paid by the state same as a lay teacher or nurse. Their decision to give up their salaries to the orders was their own affair.

Yes. most Holy Order's ( teaching and Nursing ) took vow's of poverty, so they got little or no money, and they did not need any money because all of their financial need's ( housing, food clothing etc.) were by their respective Order's. The salary's which the Order received for these Teacher's and Nursing Nun's from the government went into maintenance of school's and Hospitals, etc. ( and building and financing school's and hospitals abroad too )

smacl

Hobosan wrote: »

Dogs don't have opposable thumbs so can't do the Devils bidding, but they are a man's best friend, so they chip them first to prime us for chipping.

It's so transparent, as long as you can spot the signs.

My daughter's cat got run over and killed this weekend and we go the call from UCD vets to let us know. They wouldn't have been able contact us if the cat hadn't been chipped and while it was very sad to lose a pet, much better to know and be able bury it in the garden than not know.

As for chipping humans, it is rapidly becoming superfluous to tracking people's identity. AIs can already recognise people not just by their faces but also for example by their gait and we're barely on the cusp of what we can achieve with AI. If you're concerned about the interface with technology and humanity you might also want to take a look at CRISPR and the fact that backroom gene hacking kits are already out there. Sorry to rain on your parade, but chips under the skin to track location and biometrics are not exactly an issue.

Cabaal

Hobosan wrote: »

Dogs don't have opposable thumbs so can't do the Devils bidding, but they are a man's best friend, so they chip them first to prime us for chipping.

It's so transparent, as long as you can spot the signs.

Yes, yes it is....and if you have a tinfoil hat on.

You know before chips in pets they had collars with tags (and many still do)! These are a clear sign of oppression and many cultures used similar items on human slaves to show ownership.

Its been so transparent that the long term plan was to put collars and tags on all of us.....as long as you can spot the signs you can see this.
Don't even get me started on ear tags on cattle to show ownership or paint on sheep that graze up mountains!!

Its all the devils bidding very clearly

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

jmreire

smacl wrote: »

My daughter's cat got run over and killed this weekend and we go the call from UCD vets to let us know. They wouldn't have been able contact us if the cat hadn't been chipped and while it was very sad to lose a pet, much better to know and be able bury it in the garden than not know.

As for chipping humans, it is rapidly becoming superfluous to tracking people's identity. AIs can already recognise people not just by their faces but also for example by their gait and we're barely on the cusp of what we can achieve with AI. If you're concerned about the interface with technology and humanity you might also want to take a look at CRISPR and the fact that backroom gene hacking kits are already out there. Sorry to rain on your parade, but chips under the skin to track location and biometrics are not exactly an issue.

Pretty frightening scenario..I watched a program about how the Chinese monitor their people ( similar or maybe it was the same as you mention above ) Main square, with 100's ( maybe 1'000's) people going about their daily business, and each being monitored.,,,No place to hide,they know literally everything about you, completely under their control. And "THEIR" ,,,,,who are they? and who control's them?
For them, skin implanted chips would just be the icing on the cake. This is the stuff that science fiction horror stories / movies were made from year's ago.
AI...will turn out to be a double edged sword, just like other "great leap's" forward, IMHO. Will have the possibility to greatly benefit mankind, or destroy it.

smacl

jmreire wrote: »

Pretty frightening scenario..I watched a program about how the Chinese monitor their people ( similar or maybe it was the same as you mention above ) Main square, with 100's ( maybe 1'000's) people going about their daily business, and each being monitored.,,,No place to hide,they know literally everything about you, completely under their control. And "THEIR" ,,,,,who are they? and who control's them?
For them, skin implanted chips would just be the icing on the cake. This is the stuff that science fiction horror stories / movies were made from year's ago.
AI...will turn out to be a double edged sword, just like other "great leap's" forward, IMHO. Will have the possibility to greatly benefit mankind, or destroy it.

I think it is one for the human rights groups to come to terms with and build on. Rights to privacy and anonymity are still quite new ground, which is where this whole GDPR thing is rearing its head. Personally, I'm also of the opinion that sentient AI isn't that far off either which makes for a whole new ethical kettle of fish. Scary to some extent but also fascinating.

branie2

The Omen trilogy had the mark as part of the plot