cgcsb wrote: » so...feck Greystones, have a DART shuttle to Bray every 10 mins instead.
cgcsb wrote: » Then just operate every 20 mins from Howth to Greystones and every 20 minutes from Balbriggan(Drogheda?) to Bray. If we want to get fancy, build a passing loop near Greystones and operate every 10 minutes Greystones to Drogheda and every 10 minutes from Howth to Howth Junction.
Pete_Cavan wrote: » cgcsb wrote: » Then just operate every 20 mins from Howth to Greystones and every 20 minutes from Balbriggan(Drogheda?) to Bray. If we want to get fancy, build a passing loop near Greystones and operate every 10 minutes Greystones to Drogheda and every 10 minutes from Howth to Howth Junction. They can't seriously be considering having full DART (i.e. serving all stations) all the way to Balbriggan or further north, are they? I know it gets mentioned in the media but I assume that this is not accurate and taking electrification to mean something it isn't. With getting DART, the towns further north would be getting a much worse service. The increased frequency means nothing if journey times into the city are almost doubling. Buses or driving down the M1 to the Metrolink P&R would become more attractive options for many. Maintaining a 10 minute frequency would require a lot of additional rolling stock, with lots of capacity wasted running almost empty trains up the coast for much of the day. A short DART extension and limited stop electric commuter services would be better for everyone.
Ireland trains wrote: » I also believe that the 10 min dart is unecessary at off peak because they run nearly empty and has made greystones-connolly 1 hour long.
CatInABox wrote: » Ten minute Darts are a key part of BusConnects. It's a legitimate complaint, but unfortunately, it runs up against creating a great network for everyone in Dublin. Eventually, once they get enough carriages, they plan on running the Dart every five minutes (presumably every Dart will be four carriages).
gooddarts10 wrote: » Dart every 5 minutes? Where do you see that
CatInABox wrote: » I can't find it, sorry. I've definitely read it in a published government document, but I've checked all the available one's that spring to mind.
Grandeeod wrote: » I remember when DART was every 5 mins peak. That was well before all the other **** was integrated into it without the ultimate solution - DU. Without DU, it will struggle until its built.
Ireland trains wrote: » Where have you gotten the notion that journey times would double. Yes there will be more stops as usually the commuter trains go express to mallahide. But eletric trains have much better acceleration and deceleration which would make up time. Also 10 min dart to drogheda should only be at peak times.
CatInABox wrote: » gooddarts10 wrote: » Dart every 5 minutes? Where do you see that I can't find it, sorry. I've definitely read it in a published government document, but I've checked all the available one's that spring to mind.
Dats me wrote: » Might that have been post DART Underground? I know that in the MetroLink Preferred Route Document the appendix for Glasnevin interchange states that the design capacity for the Maynooth Line, so future proofing, is for 15 trains per hour.
Dats me wrote: » In fairness the current plan of doing all the "ancillary works" needed for the tunnel now, electrification, signalling, purchase of rolling stock now makes sense. Improves the case for the tunnel too.
Grandeeod wrote: » I don't believe these works are heading towards DU. The ML connection at Glasnevin as proposed looks like an alternative in conjunction with the PPT. The current set up looks very much like various short term solutions put forward many years ago and including the original interchange at Glasnevin with the original Metro North as proposed by P11 in the O'Reilly report. We are actually going backwards.
CatInABox wrote: » The Dart Underground project, when it was put forward originally, included electrification of the lines, removing level crossings, new rolling stock, signalling, etc. It was basically one massive Dublin and Commuter rail upgrade project. The price shock meant that plan was never going to fly, so all the various elements of that plan have been separated out into different projects, which have a far higher chance of moving forward.
Pete_Cavan wrote: » Regardless of electric trains, journey times will increase with half a dozen more stops. The goal of such investment as electrification should be to reduce journey times. Given the considerable current journey times, any increase could push some passengers to other modes.
marno21 wrote: » Irish Rail have tendered for consultants for the Maynooth line DART upgrade and for "city centre enhancements".https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase.asp?PID=145211
marno21 wrote: » IMO DART to Drogheda is nuts. It would be one thing if you split Connolly-Drogheda into 2 sections and ran the southern half as an express service between halfway and the city centre. But this isn't really feasible without adding extra tracks to the Northern Line
Sam Russell wrote: » Wasn't there talk about a generator tender slotted within the Dart train that could generate the required electricity that could be used where there was no O/H line available. That could be used while the lines are put up.
yannakis wrote: » Like buying a Nissan Leaf and throwing a Generator in the boot?
bk wrote: » The point of electrification is too increase frequency and thus capacity, not to increase speeds. There is no point of fast trains, if you can't get on them due to overcrowding. With Dublins population exploding and demand way up, all while having very little space to expand services, all leads to the reality that the focus has to be on capacity at the cost of speed. People often like to point out that trains to Cork were faster 80 years ago then they are today. And they are right. But what they fail to point out is that there are far more trains, carrying far more people going today then in the past. As for folks moving to other modes, when those other modes are just as congested, if not worse, it won't make much difference.
Pete_Cavan wrote: » For commuters in north county Dublin, journey times are the most important. A frequent DART is great but if you can get a faster express bus through the PT, or drive to Lissenhall for a super frequent and fast Metro, you will most likely choose the most time efficient option (assuming no major cost differential). And it is DART which is more likely to suffer from congestion issues than the alternatives. As I mentioned, putting all the commuters of existing northern line DART and Commuter services on to just DART isn't going to work. There is very limited scope for extra trains so that means DART users approaching the city will struggle to get on (as is already the case at certain times). Adding more stopping services is likely to reduce the number of paths, not increase them. Only having DART services which stop at every station from Connolly to Balbriggan/Drogheda is not preferable to continuing with a mix of DART and limited stop commuters.
Sam Russell wrote: » I do not agree with the NTA diktat that every Dart stops at every station. It would make more sense to have 'fast' Darts that have limited stops followed by a 'slow' Dart that does stop at every stop. For example, having a Dart leave Bray at 5 past, stopping at DL, Black Rock, Sydney Parade, Lansdowne, GCD, Pearse, etc., followed by an all stations Dart at 10 past. Running the 'fast' service every thirty minutes would mean the other stations would get a 15 minute service, while the 'fast' stations would get a 10 min service. A similar approach would work for Drogheda and Balbrigan. The major requirement is for regular, dependable, journey times, with good frequency.
