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What am I doing wrong?

Day Lewin

Brown soda bread. The elusive national loaf.

Generations of Irish Mammies have knocked it together, day after day, producing tender loaves of delicious wholesome bread that breaks tidily into quarters and cuts neatly into slices, thick with butter, mmm.

Well, I can't do it.
Today I made yet another attempt and although it tastes reasonably all right, there is a thick tough crust and when the knife finally gets through it, the bread breaks up into lumps like collapsing masonry.

It's not like the kind you buy, or the kind made by veteran Mammies.

I should add, for clarity, that I am not an inexperienced baker: I made the family's white yeast bread for years, without any machinery.
I make cakes and biscuits and scones and buns, flatbreads and tin loaves.

But this staple of the Irish kitchen defeats me.

I've tried this Brown Soda many times, at least twenty times, (once a year!) using many and various recipes: scribbled down by friends, published in books, watched on YouTube.
I've taken all the advice: All brown, or mixed with some white/or a lot of white/ handle it lightly, knead for five minutes, don't knead at all, very wet dough, very dry dough...moderate oven, very hot oven, cover it, don't cover it.... and so on, and so on.

What am I doing wrong? What's the secret?

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Captain Red Beard

The last few times I've made it using Felicity Cloakes recipe and everyone who eats it loves it. Which did leave me conflicted what with her being a Brit and all, but I do like her column and have her Completely Perfect book, and the girl does her research so she gets a pass.

Day Lewin

Captain Red Beard wrote: »

The last few times I've made it using Felicity Cloakes recipe and everyone who eats it loves it. Which did leave me conflicted what with her being a Brit and all, but I do like her column and have her Completely Perfect book, and the girl does her research so she gets a pass.

I looked up the link and it is, indeed, a most detailed and comprehensive recipe.

Update on my dud of last night: This morning the bread has settled and is much easier to slice - very sweet and nutty too, in fact delicious.

But the wretched crust is like hog's leather, or some kind of architectural rendering: you have to saw your way in. Almost too tough to enjoy eating.
Does ANYONE know what causes this? Or how to avoid it?

Dial Hard

Are you laying a damp tea towel over the bread for half an hour after it comes out of the oven? That's key for softening the crust, imo.

Day Lewin

Dial Hard wrote: »

Are you laying a damp tea towel over the bread for half an hour after it comes out of the oven? That's key for softening the crust, imo.

Yes, I did: not a damp one but the traditional piece of tightly-woven linen (a clean glass cloth)

An actually damp one may be the only thing I haven't tried: thanks for the tip!
P.S. How damp?

Dial Hard

Day Lewin wrote: »

Yes, I did: not a damp one but the traditional piece of tightly-woven linen (a clean glass cloth)

An actually damp one may be the only thing I haven't tried: thanks for the tip!
P.S. How damp?

Completely wetted down then wrung out well.

Markcheese

Dial Hard wrote: »

Are you laying a damp tea towel over the bread for half an hour after it comes out of the oven? That's key for softening the crust, imo.

That's interesting, never thought of that.. ðŸ˜€.
The other option would be to put a dish with some water in the hot oven to introduce a bit of steam, and maybe, (depending on the shape of your loaf,) up the oven temp a little and reduce the baking time, definitely the longer the baking the harder the crust...

And I was going to suggest keeping it till next day to firm it up during cooking... But you got ahead of me...

I tend to go for quite wet, a mixing rather than needing, and shape quickly on a really floury bench, a mixture of wholemeal and white, and I cheat with a bit of melted butter or cream to make it richer,
And a fresh tub of bicarb, it can loose its fizz fairly quickly...

(I'm sure my great aunt would be scowling at me, for half of the above, I don't remember hers being wet, butter would have been a no nó, and I think she worked it a little, before putting it in a flat ish roasting tin....)

Birdsong

Dial Hard wrote:

Are you laying a damp tea towel over the bread for half an hour after it comes out of the oven? That's key for softening the crust, imo.

My mam always did this, works treat

phormium

Keep it simple, Granny's soda bread had nothing but flour, breadsoda, bit of salt and buttermilk. Good hot oven and definitely wrap in damp cloth.

I think it definitely cuts better next day, you must expect crumbling and hard crust day one if you want to eat it fresh. It freezes very well too and will have a softer crust when thawed.

Having said all that about traditional method I have found a hybrid of the porridge recipe makes a lovely brown bread in a loaf tin. Having bought the greek yogurt for the porridge bread I now use the container as a measuring guide for my hybrid, 500g pot of buttermilk or yogurt or mix, 500g pot of brown flour, 500g pot of porridge oats (ordinary rolled type), 1 egg, 2 level teaspoons bread soda (sieved). Mix the lot together, give it another splash of milk if it's too thick to stir.

I use a 2 lb loaf tin and I grease it well with butter and then sprinkle sesame seeds all over it because 1. I love them and 2. they bake in and stick to the bread rather than sprinkling on top where loads fall off when you cut it. They are not necessary obviously.

Into a preheated 190 fan oven or equivalent in your oven, times are approximate but I give it about 40/45 minutes then I pop it out of tin and back in for another 10 minutes, mind you that probably makes the crust firmer all around so you could just leave it in the tin for a full hour or so. Wrap in the obligatory damp cloth, I freeze it in halves or even sometimes in slices to make life simpler!

grahamor

Day Lewin wrote: »

collapsing masonry.

Day Lewin wrote: »

wretched crust is like hog's leather, or some kind of architectural rendering

You have an excellent way with words Day Lewin

El Tarangu

phormium wrote: »

Keep it simple, Granny's soda bread had nothing but flour, breadsoda, bit of salt and buttermilk [...]

Jesus, but I have a hankering for soda bread after reading that - I'm going to try and find buttermilk on my way home.

Captain Red Beard

El Tarangu wrote: »

Jesus, but I have a hankering for soda bread after reading that - I'm going to try and find buttermilk on my way home.

Every supermarket has buttermilk. Get decent flour if you can.

Day Lewin

grahamor wrote: »

You have an excellent way with words Day Lewin

Why, thank you

IAMAMORON

Buttermilk.

RasTa

Yeah it's easy.

250g plain, 250g wholemeal. 400ml buttermilk and teaspoon of salt.

I use strong bread flour too and find it nicer. Buttermilk hard to find in the UK for some reason

Day Lewin

RasTa wrote: »

Yeah it's easy.

250g plain, 250g wholemeal. 400ml buttermilk and teaspoon of salt.

I use strong bread flour too and find it nicer. Buttermilk hard to find in the UK for some reason

Do you knead yours much, RasTa?
Do you cover it during the baking?
What oven temperature?

I'm always glad of any hints or tips!

RasTa

Day Lewin wrote: »

Do you knead yours much, RasTa?
Do you cover it during the baking?
What oven temperature?

I'm always glad of any hints or tips!

No about a minute, it usually turns out like the photo in this link(forgot the bicarb). Started from this recipe but changed the flour around.

https://www.rivercottage.net/recipes/soda-bread

200-220 in the oven which I turn on about 20mins before starting and never covered

hullaballoo

Soda bread is a difficult one to master but once you have your technique, there's a good chance you'll have great bread every time.

As with all baking, there's a bit of science. The science for soda bread is a little different to yeast based doughs etc.

The most important thing imo is to bear in mind some important dos and don'ts:

1. Keep dry and wet separate until the last minute - particularly important here because the acid in the buttermilk starts reacting immediately with the soda... unless you put it in the oven almost in the same movement as incorporating the buttermilk, you are losing air bubbles from the unsealed dough.

2. I add enough buttermilk to bring the dough together and no more. Any kind of excess moisture will give a tough crust. It's counterintuitive but steam in the oven hardens the crust not the other way around. With other breads, it is desirable to harden the crust but not with soda.

3. Mix the dry ingredients thoroughly. This ensures the reagents and flours are even and should give an even rise and texture.

4. DON'T KNEAD IT. At all. Just bring the mixture together then bang it in the oven. Any kind of kneading (or even just faffing about) will kill the bread.

5. Damp cloth over it after baking if you want a very soft crust. I prefer the crunch and get over the cutting issue by using a razor sharp knife so I don't do this. But if your personal preference is for very soft crust like the shop-bought bread, then yes, a damp cloth will do the job.

FWIW, I use 500g wholemeal flour, 170g plain flour, 1.5 tsp soda, 1.5 tsp salt, 50g sesame seeds (I love them!) and never measure the buttermilk. Due to the inconsistencies between flours etc., no exact measurement of milk will always be correct. As above, just bring the dough together.

Cut the cross deep about 50% through the dough. I sprinkle sesame seeds in the cut for aesthetics.

I put it in a moderately hot oven for 1 hour.

It looks like this:

Day Lewin

Your bread looks pretty good, @hullaballoo!
I shall implement your ideas (well, in fairness, doing many of them already)
- always open to experiment and discovery!

Doctors room ghost

I do eat minimum one brown sody cake a day.love them

Muahahaha

Not a big baking person myself but I would say that without putting a small thermometer into your oven you never truly know the exact temperature it is putting out. Especially so on older ovens whose dials are not all that accurate and also ovens that might be losing heat through loose seals around the door. My own oven is around 15 years old and registers as nearly -20 degrees inaccurate compared to the thermometer. Baking is a bit of a scientific process so I would guess that an oven operating at a lower (or higher) temperature than you think it is would make a difference to the end product.

grahamor

hullaballoo wrote: »

DON'T KNEAD IT. At all. Just bring the mixture together then bang it in the oven. Any kind of kneading (or even just faffing about) will kill the bread.

This is the best advice IMO

Ah Go On

Yep, using as little buttermilk as possible and no kneading are the keys (as well as good quality ingredients - try Cuinneog buttermilk, available in fancy Supervalus).

Besides Felicity Cloak's (which as mentioned is sort of the gold standard), Nigel Slater's recipe for this works a treat too, and has a nice trick.
He recommends putting a casserole dish with a lid in the oven at 220C while you get the mix together, so you get an "oven within an oven".

When the dough comes together you take the dish out, coat the bottom with flour and plop the dough in. Lid on, dish back in the oven, and you're laughing.

It's called Nigel's Lazy Loaf, you can Google it.