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Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

[Deleted User]

Carrying on with the discussion as the other thread is full

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055766866/1

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Isambard

imo there is plenty of room, but I do wonder about the integrity of greenway supporters who say it's cheaper to put the Greenway on the ballast of the rail alignment, rather than saying lets put it to one side and leave room for rail. That action makes me think they would have no intention of allowing a rail return at some future time.

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

Above: Llanbedr - what a threat to life and limb!

More here about the 60 Welsh Request Stops:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/train-stations-wales-you-ask-12625986

and here: https://www.countryfile.com/go-outdoors/days-out/britains-best-request-stop-train-stations/

You could easily lay one of those railways alongside a greenway. All new rail projects have to be electric and there's plenty of room on the WRC alignment for rail after a greenway. If they need to secure half a billion yo yos from the EU for a western rail, and they would, they should have no problem funding it.

Del.Monte

Del.Monte wrote: »

It seems that people in Britain are able to hail a train from one of these unmanned death trap stations without injuring themselves.

Above: Llanbedr - what a threat to life and limb!

More here about the 60 Welsh Request Stops:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/train-stations-wales-you-ask-12625986

and here: https://www.countryfile.com/go-outdoors/days-out/britains-best-request-stop-train-stations/

jasper100

westtip wrote: »

We can all massage figures as much as we want.

Irish Rail released these new figures recently and the official figure for the total line went up from 352K for 2017 to 387K for 2018 an increase of 35k.

In their press release they did not give the breakout this year for Ennis Athenry, they have been asked for this.

Previously they have given the breakout and in 2017 of the 352K travellers 134k actually used the new line, about 38% of all journies on the new line line.

Even if the new line accounts for 40% of all journies in 2018 that is 40% of 387k which is about 155k.

The business case for the Western Rail Corridor was for 250k passengers by year 5. We are now in year 10. It has hit about 62% of its business case after ten years. Clearly this is not a success story, but I am sure this will be pointed out to EY DKN.

Re students. Ah bless them. You do not build new railways so students can get home on a Friday, there has to be a seven day a week demand. Get the bus, hitch or get a lift with a mate, but don't expect the state to build a railway for a Friday night special or Sunday night special.

It must be killing you all the same to see passenger numbers ever on the increase.

If it got to 1 million journeys a year you would probably still find cause to criticise everything.

westtip

jasper100 wrote: »

The growth is being experienced across the route, with city to city journeys surging and a particularly strong student demand. The Ennis to Limerick service and the Athenry to Galway commuter services have shown significant growth.

We can all massage figures as much as we want.

Irish Rail released these new figures recently and the official figure for the total line went up from 352K for 2017 to 387K for 2018 an increase of 35k.

In their press release they did not give the breakout this year for Ennis Athenry, they have been asked for this.

Previously they have given the breakout and in 2017 of the 352K travellers 134k actually used the new line, about 38% of all journies on the new line line.

Even if the new line accounts for 40% of all journies in 2018 that is 40% of 387k which is about 155k.

The business case for the Western Rail Corridor was for 250k passengers by year 5. We are now in year 10. It has hit about 62% of its business case after ten years. Clearly this is not a success story, but I am sure this will be pointed out to EY DKN.

Re students. Ah bless them. You do not build new railways so students can get home on a Friday, there has to be a seven day a week demand. Get the bus, hitch or get a lift with a mate, but don't expect the state to build a railway for a Friday night special or Sunday night special.

[Deleted User]

Del.Monte wrote: »

It seems that people in Britain are able to hail a train from one of these unmanned death trap stations without injuring themselves.

Sure, people do it from bus stops everyday everywhere.

Del.Monte

Deleted User wrote: »

PIR sensors, if anyone is at the station at night, the lights come on - else it stays dark. As for hailing the driver, there are many simple technical solutions that can be used.

A button connected to a signal
An intercom to call the driver
etc

It seems that people in Britain are able to hail a train from one of these unmanned death trap stations without injuring themselves.

[Deleted User]

L1011 wrote: »

There are minimum requirements for a new station which do not apply to grandfathered old stations. Lighting, fencing etc would be required at a new build request stop also.

Actually - if you've no lighting how the hell do you expect the driver to see you flag them down?

PIR sensors, if anyone is at the station at night, the lights come on - else it stays dark. As for hailing the driver, there are many simple technical solutions that can be used.

A button connected to a signal
An intercom to call the driver
etc

Sam Russell

Isambard wrote: »

those are some of the factors, but safety cells and airbags are probably just as important.

I could not list them all. Better road design is another factor.

We as a society take safety much more seriously than in the past.

Isambard

those are some of the factors, but safety cells and airbags are probably just as important.

Sam Russell

L1011 wrote: »

Common sense was never common. Accidental death rates were huge in the past, nostalgia doesn't excise the figures

Death rates on the roads are lower than for ever.

It is illegal :
1: to travel without a seat belt.
2: To drink and drive.
3: Carry more passengers than the vehicle is equipped to carry.
4: Infants must be in an approved child seat.
5: Young infants must be carried in a rear facing child seat.
6: Speeding and drink driving enforcement etc etc.

Must be a coincidence that all these regulations have come in and the death rates have been reduced.

L1011

Del.Monte wrote: »

My point is that it shouldn't be! Common sense seems to have gone the way of the Dodo but some day it will have to come back.

Common sense was never common. Accidental death rates were huge in the past, nostalgia doesn't excise the figures

Del.Monte

L1011 wrote: »

Safety requirements are not going to be rolled back for the laugh

Your poorly equipped request stop would be illegal to build as new

My point is that it shouldn't be! Common sense seems to have gone the way of the Dodo but some day it will have to come back.

L1011

Del.Monte wrote: »

I didn't say no lighting - overkill is what I'm on about - even in my local station where the Up platform is out of use all the lights are blazing away. As for minimum requirements - they need changing and that's a feeble, CIE type, excuse.

Safety requirements are not going to be rolled back for the laugh

Your poorly equipped request stop would be illegal to build as new

Del.Monte

L1011 wrote: »

There are minimum requirements for a new station which do not apply to grandfathered old stations. Lighting, fencing etc would be required at a new build request stop also.

Actually - if you've no lighting how the hell do you expect the driver to see you flag them down?

I didn't say no lighting - overkill is what I'm on about - even in my local station where the Up platform is out of use all the lights are blazing away. As for minimum requirements - they need changing and that's a feeble, CIE type, excuse.

Ray Bloody Purchase

jasper100 wrote: »

Once its double tracked with 100mph line speed I would estimate 30 minutes.

Best laugh I had all day.

Lord Glentoran

Muckyboots wrote: »

I agree. The technology for this has been around for decades but I think you would have more objections to this idea from rail advocates than you would have from doubters.

Nope, I agree with Del.Monte on this.

jasper100

Del.Monte wrote: »

Truth is that stations like Ardrahan and Craughwell should have been reopened as request stops thereby cutting down on expensive overkill at said stations - lighting, fencing, car parks, ticket machines...It can be done on the other side of the Irish Sea but not here.

If you live in Ardrahan or Craughwell they are each about 10km from Athenry / Gort.

No need for stations in these hamlets at all. Drive to Gort or Ardrahan. There is no station at Long pavement for example which is close to Thomond park and Limerick city and would have much better potential along the WRC.

L1011

Del.Monte wrote: »

Truth is that stations like Ardrahan and Craughwell should have been reopened as request stops thereby cutting down on expensive overkill at said stations - lighting, fencing, car parks, ticket machines...It can be done on the other side of the Irish Sea but not here.

There are minimum requirements for a new station which do not apply to grandfathered old stations. Lighting, fencing etc would be required at a new build request stop also.

Actually - if you've no lighting how the hell do you expect the driver to see you flag them down?

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

Truth is that stations like Ardrahan and Craughwell should have been reopened as request stops thereby cutting down on expensive overkill at said stations - lighting, fencing, car parks, ticket machines...It can be done on the other side of the Irish Sea but not here.

I agree. The technology for this has been around for decades but I think you would have more objections to this idea from rail advocates than you would have from doubters.

Del.Monte

Truth is that stations like Ardrahan and Craughwell should have been reopened as request stops thereby cutting down on expensive overkill at said stations - lighting, fencing, car parks, ticket machines...It can be done on the other side of the Irish Sea but not here.

JCX BXC

jasper100 wrote: »

The article doesnt say, but I looked on irish rail and its €7.49 each way with 2 trains sold out each way already.

I would think its well busy at those prices!

The trains never sell out, it's just too late to book them.

I'm a regular user of the WRC, including the infamous Ennis-Athenry section, and ridership is quite good, even at the slow times. Always a good few on the train nowadays. Adrahan could do with closing down to improve journey times, ridership there does not justify a station.

Muckyboots

jasper100 wrote: »

Once its double tracked with 100mph line speed I would estimate 30 minutes.

I hear they are planning to run it underground through Tuam and CPOing and demolishing a dozen houses between Milltown and Kilbannon to get speeds up to 150kmh.

jasper100

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you anticipate the journey time to be from Claremorris to Galway if such a route existed?

Once its double tracked with 100mph line speed I would estimate 30 minutes.

jasper100

L1011 wrote: »

Actual figures?

The article doesnt say, but I looked on irish rail and its €7.49 each way with 2 trains sold out each way already.

I would think its well busy at those prices!

[Deleted User]

Del.Monte wrote: »

The WRC won't achieve anything like its full potential until it reaches Claremorris.

Ok, I'll bite, let's imagine pigs fly and it gets opened to Claremorris. A few questions if you don't mind

What do you anticipate the journey time to be from Claremorris to Galway if such a route existed?

How much would it cost for a commuter when compared to the cost for a bus ticket for the same journey?

Grandeeod

Del.Monte wrote: »

The WRC won't achieve anything like its full potential until it reaches Claremorris. Will it ever happen - probably not if the past is anything to go by. The reopened Youghal line stops halfway to its destination; Clonsilla/Navan ends in a field and the Green Luas line ends on top of a hill at Brides Glen instead of Bray. :rolleyes:

Ya troll!:D

L1011

jasper100 wrote: »

The growth is being experienced across the route, with city to city journeys surging and a particularly strong student demand. The Ennis to Limerick service and the Athenry to Galway commuter services have shown significant growth.

Actual figures?

Del.Monte

Grandeeod wrote: »

Over subsidised fares and free car parking too. GDA rail commuters have big fares and car parking charges. Fish in a barrel stuff, while the WRC is treated like a charity case to increase ridership. Makes me want to puke such is the absolutely thwarted attitude to it.

The WRC won't achieve anything like its full potential until it reaches Claremorris. Will it ever happen - probably not if the past is anything to go by. The reopened Youghal line stops halfway to its destination; Clonsilla/Navan ends in a field and the Green Luas line ends on top of a hill at Brides Glen instead of Bray. :rolleyes:

Grandeeod

marno21 wrote: »

It's little wonder there's "surging" growth with the fares still subsidised (which I agree with - little point in running high fares with empty trains).

Over subsidised fares and free car parking too. GDA rail commuters have big fares and car parking charges. Fish in a barrel stuff, while the WRC is treated like a charity case to increase ridership. Makes me want to puke such is the absolutely thwarted attitude to it.