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How the f**k can you afford a decent car?

[Deleted User]

Since my pay has increased nearly 50% over the last couple of years I thought I would buy a car that's not a thirsty, gutless and uncomfortable. I thought it would be nice to get something that had a bit of power, didn't cripple me on long journeys, and could play a podcast from USB without having wires all over the cabin leading into a homemade aux port in the glovebox.

But if I get something that meets those requirements, isn't ten years old, and doesn't have over 100,000 miles on it, I'd need about €15,000. How does anyone save that kind of money every few years working in a regular job? Do most people spread it out using finance? Even if I got finance, I would have to pay nearly €100 a week and over €2,000 in interest, and that's more than my pay can stand.

This is a serious inquiry. How does this work for most people? How do they lay their hands on new or new-ish cars? Are they all selling drugs on the side?

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Needles73

Squidgy Black wrote: »

You'll generally get a better price if you paid in cash regardless, doesn't matter what the finance rate is most of the time.

You’d actually be surprised how little some main dealers will give off for cash deals. That’s my experience of VW and Skoda anyway. They want you hooked into a finance package, ideally PCP. They want you back continually trading

mloc123

iamtony wrote: »

im pretty sure there's a con to 0% finance. I'd guess it's built into the car and you'd get a better price if youd paid cash?

There is no con... VW/Skoda make money by selling cars, not by financing them. If they can offer 0% finance on models and in turn dominate a large part of the Irish market (as I think they do) they will make money.

When I ordered a new car a couple of years ago, price was haggled and agreed on before I told them how I planned to pay for it.

PaulKK

iamtony wrote: »

im pretty sure there's a con to 0% finance. I'd guess it's built into the car and you'd get a better price if youd paid cash?

You can get a decent discount even with 0% PCP.

Dravokivich

realdanbreen wrote: »

Anyone forking out more than four or five K for a car is going to be the type that logs into instagram or Facebook to show that they are having a meal out! Most cars nowadays will do 400k no bother so why would you spend 20k for a newer number plate.

People still do that?

[Deleted User]

janfebmar wrote: »

Most people in the world do not have to pay the rip off car prices due to high taxation here in this country. I always thought the EU / EEC was to be a "common market".

Give. It. A. Rest. Using every thread to make one of your ignorant, pro-Brexit swipes at the EU is more than pathetic. For the record, it is the Irish government and they alone who decide our very high VRT rate. Is this clear? They are given the freedom to set their state's VRT, as is every other state in the EU.

As long ago as 2004 the EU - your supposed "nanny state" - proposed harmonising the rate across the EU and an official spokesperson of the Department of Finance had this to say: "The Minister for Finance is opposed to the abolition of, or any reduction in, VRT.... In Ireland, VRT generates over €800 million per year. To replace this would require, for example, an increase of 2 per cent in the standard rate of income tax." ( 'Milking the Motorist' (The Irish Times, 4 Feb. 2004))

domrush

iamtony wrote: »

https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/the-truth-about-car-payments

Sorry it's 10 years read through that, it gives the figures but also some good ideas on saving the average car payment and trading up from your bangernomics car you started with.

But sure you're comparing a 30k car with a 63.5k investment? 500 a month over 5 years @10%; annual returns gives 40k, hardly that impressive.

You're also dealing with the significant risks of investing as well

The_Honeybadger

domrush wrote: »

But sure you're comparing a 30k car with a 63.5k investment? 500 a month over 5 years @10% annual returns gives 40k, hardly that impressive.

You're also dealing with the significant risks of investing as well

Yes, and I would add that you could make the same argument regarding just about anything. We could all live in cheaper houses, do without holidays, never drink or eat out etc etc and save / invest the money instead.

Once the car payments are worked in to an overall budget and it’s affordable then there is no issue. Some people seem to want to paint everyone with a car loan as financially illiterate, and struggling to make the payments. It’s not the reality and I do wonder if there is an element of jealousy involved in some cases. There are of course genuinely thrifty people who wouldn’t buy a new car even if they win the lotto and I respect that position but neither side is necessarily right or wrong.

bob.k

Happy do drive my 03 B6 Audi 1.9TDi sport mapped to 170bhp the car has payed for itself long ago. 200k miles good for 500k once serviced well...

Still looks great on the road...has full leather interior with heated seats, cruise control, upgraded bluetooth stereo and bose speakers etc etc....

Maintenance costs me about 500 per year in the 7 years ive owned her and I intend to keep her another 7 years!

The tax is the only sickener...

There is nothing a new 50k car can do that my car cannot do besides massive depreciation and wasted money....im not insecure in that I need a new car as a status symbol of pseudo wealth

iamtony

domrush wrote: »

But sure you're comparing a 30k car with a 63.5k investment? 500 a month over 5 years @10% annual returns gives 40k, hardly that impressive.

You're also dealing with the significant risks of investing as well

All I was pointing out is that investing in cars is not a good idea unless you have money to spare. The op was asking how people get money for cars and I'm trying to tell him that smart people don't borrow money for cars they wait till they can afford them and drive cheaper cars until that day.

The average Irish salary is 46k so most wouldn't have money to burn once they are actually saving and investing in their mortgage, pension etc. Etc. If you read the link the same amount monthly invested over 30 years would be more than a million. And it's pretty safe investing wisely and over the long-term the returns are pretty safe.
Over 30 years you could spend 180 thousand on cars and have nothing to show for it.

Idbatterim

bob.k wrote: »

Happy do drive my 03 B6 Audi 1.9TDi sport mapped to 170bhp the car has payed for itself long ago. 200k miles good for 500k once serviced well...

Still looks great on the road...has full leather interior with heated seats, cruise control, upgraded bluetooth stereo and bose speakers etc etc....

Maintenance costs me about 500 per year in the 7 years ive owned her and I intend to keep her another 7 years!

The tax is the only sickener...

There is nothing a new 50k car can do that my car cannot do....

Yeah but the newer car would have a different number on a piece of plastic at the front and back of the car ...

Idbatterim

Pretty hilarious how a country with no car manufacturering loves sending billions to Germany , Japan etc every year ...

fletch

bob.k wrote: »

There is nothing a new 50k car can do that my car cannot do

Seriously?

bob.k

fletch wrote: »

Seriously?

Go ahead...

Eric Cartman

bob.k wrote: »

Happy do drive my 03 B6 Audi 1.9TDi sport mapped to 170bhp the car has payed for itself long ago. 200k miles good for 500k once serviced well...

Still looks great on the road...has full leather interior with heated seats, cruise control, upgraded bluetooth stereo and bose speakers etc etc....

Maintenance costs me about 500 per year in the 7 years ive owned her and I intend to keep her another 7 years!

The tax is the only sickener...

There is nothing a new 50k car can do that my car cannot do besides massive depreciation and wasted money....im not insecure in that I need a new car as a status symbol of pseudo wealth

well , more fuel economy, less worn components, New safety systems, better in car entertainment and information systems. You have to remember that somebody had to stump up for that car in 2003 for you to have it now, and other people had to buy new cars before that to fund its development.

Im glad theres more and more finance options than ever which allow unaffordable high end cars to depreciate to where Im willing to pay for them.

Shefwedfan

Idbatterim wrote: »

Pretty hilarious how a country with no car manufacturering loves sending billions to Germany , Japan etc every year ...

So we shouldn’t buy car because they are not made here?

What your alternative? Irish bred horses?

Toyotafanboi

bob.k wrote: »

There is nothing a new 50k car can do that my car cannot do besides massive depreciation and wasted money....im not insecure in that I need a new car as a status symbol of pseudo wealth

Actually there's a list of things a new A4 could do that yours can't.

I dont think many people are so insecure that they need a new car as a status symbol of pseudo wealth, I think that's possibly something you've convinced yourself of in your head while you drive around in your older car (not that there's anything wrong with driving an older car). Maybe in the back of your mind you're actually a bit self conscious of it?

iamtony

Bring back them shamrock cars they were some yolk:pac:

Shefwedfan

bob.k wrote: »

Happy do drive my 03 B6 Audi 1.9TDi sport mapped to 170bhp the car has payed for itself long ago. 200k miles good for 500k once serviced well...

Still looks great on the road...has full leather interior with heated seats, cruise control, upgraded bluetooth stereo and bose speakers etc etc....

Maintenance costs me about 500 per year in the 7 years ive owned her and I intend to keep her another 7 years!

The tax is the only sickener...

There is nothing a new 50k car can do that my car cannot do besides massive depreciation and wasted money....im not insecure in that I need a new car as a status symbol of pseudo wealth

You do realise people change cars because requirements change?

7 seater
Change in commute etc

To me you sound insecure....I don’t give a s**t what you or anyone else drives, each to their own. I do care what I drive....

iamtony

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So we shouldn’t buy car because they are not made here?

What your alternative? Irish bred horses?

my post above was supposed to be linked to this post.

Eric Cartman

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Actually there's a list of things a new A4 could do that yours can't.

I dont think many people are so insecure that they need a new car as a status symbol of pseudo wealth, I think that's possibly something you've convinced yourself of in your head while you drive around in your older car (not that there's anything wrong with driving an older car). Maybe in the back of your mind you're actually a bit self conscious of it?

I have to say i think anyone that buys something like a new dacia duster or kia sportage every year is almost certainly guilty of this. There are some cars clearly bought for the neighbours to see the new plate and are people aspiring to be wealthy 4x4 owners and just pushing the boundaries of their credit line to piss off other people doing the exact same thing.

Whatever about some lad getting himself 60k into debt to buy a nice merc or a BM or somesuch, getting yourself into massive debt and ending up with a romanian tin can with a new plate is just sad.

PsychoPete

bob.k wrote: »

Happy do drive my 03 B6 Audi 1.9TDi sport mapped to 170bhp the car has payed for itself long ago. 200k miles good for 500k once serviced well...

Still looks great on the road...has full leather interior with heated seats, cruise control, upgraded bluetooth stereo and bose speakers etc etc....

Maintenance costs me about 500 per year in the 7 years ive owned her and I intend to keep her another 7 years!

The tax is the only sickener...

There is nothing a new 50k car can do that my car cannot do besides massive depreciation and wasted money....im not insecure in that I need a new car as a status symbol of pseudo wealth

I thought the same until I took the plunge for a more modern German car, for a daily driver it was just a nicer place to be. Instead of a 15 year old car

logie101

The OP might not be earning as much as the average person.
The average wage in Ireland last year was€45,000. So a couple bringing in 90k could easily afford a decent new car every 3 years.

[Deleted User]

is pcp the thing that's basically hire purchase?
i'm loath to get a loan but i would rather have the cash and a loan than no cash or loan
i definitely couldn't face handing over more than 10k or so - the bells and whistles on the more expensive ones are awesome but i'd rather keep that for something else

bob.k

Eric Cartman wrote: »

well , more fuel economy, less worn components, New safety systems, better in car entertainment and information systems. You have to remember that somebody had to stump up for that car in 2003 for you to have it now, and other people had to buy new cars before that to fund its development.

Im glad theres more and more finance options than ever which allow unaffordable high end cars to depreciate to where Im willing to pay for them.

Fuel economy improvements are marginal, better safety systems yes but for the most part safety is the responsibility of the person behind the wheel, im well able to drive safely without electronic sensor input from the vehicle warning me of potential hazards etc. There is enough safety systems in my 03 Audi. ABS, ESP, All round airbags etc etc

Not quite sure what a new car can do better for me in terms of entertainment and information systems. I have a perfect setup in my 03 for listening pleasure with, Bluetooth, Satnav etc etc

Your are right about people having to buy new cars and allowing others to buy them when depreciated but Ireland has an obsession with new cars and PCP.

Folk working in Mcdonalds and stumping up a deposit, signing the PCP contract dotted line and rolling out of a dealership in a 191 BMW etc. Madness.

Eric Cartman

bluewolf wrote: »

is pcp the thing that's basically hire purchase?
i'm loath to get a loan but i would rather have the cash and a loan than no cash or loan
i definitely couldn't face handing over more than 10k or so - the bells and whistles on the more expensive ones are awesome but i'd rather keep that for something else

to be fair if youre not doing mad mileage 10k will buy a lot of car. I can find somebody an example of even some of the most high end exec saloons from this decade for under 20k now.

Eric Cartman

bob.k wrote: »

Fuel economy improvements are marginal, better safety systems yes but for the most part safety is the responsibility of the person behind the wheel, im well able to drive safely without electronic sensor input from the vehicle warning me of potential hazards etc. There is enough safety on systems in my 03 Audi. ABS, ESP, All round airbags etc etc

No quite sure what a new car can do better for me in terms of entertainment and information systems. I have a perfect setup in my 03 for listening pleasure with, Bluetooth, Satnav etc etc

Your are right about people having to buy new cars and allowing others to buy them when depreciated but Ireland has an obsession with new cars and PCP.

Folk working in Mcdonalds and stumping up a deposit, signing the PCP contract dotted line and rolling out of a dealership in a 191 BMW etc. Madness.

Maybe a manager, there is still a credit check involved, and a deposit of somewhere over 7k on even lower models. They wont just let somebody drive off the lot under the good word of 300 a month and certainly wont let you spend anything over 25% of your disposable on a car.

Personally I'm a massive fan of used cars, Id rather drop 30 on a 5 year old 75k car than 30k on a new car, but thats me, not for everyone.
Even if I only had 10k to spend though id be willing to drop another few years off the plate to put some german luxury under my arse than a (imo) depressing jap/korean/french econo box

Shefwedfan

bob.k wrote: »

Fuel economy improvements are marginal, better safety systems yes but for the most part safety is the responsibility of the person behind the wheel, im well able to drive safely without electronic sensor input from the vehicle warning me of potential hazards etc. There is enough safety on systems in my 03 Audi. ABS, ESP, All round airbags etc etc

No quite sure what a new car can do better for me in terms of entertainment and information systems. I have a perfect setup in my 03 for listening pleasure with, Bluetooth, Satnav etc etc

Your are right about people having to buy new cars and allowing others to buy them when depreciated but Ireland has an obsession with new cars and PCP.

Folk working in Mcdonalds and stumping up a deposit, signing the PCP contract dotted line and rolling out of a dealership in a 191 BMW etc. Madness.

Are you trying to say people in other countries don’t buy new cars?

Also McDonalds? Haha.....finance is signed off so no chance in hell people can just buy without showing they can afford car

bob.k

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Actually there's a list of things a new A4 could do that yours can't.

I dont think many people are so insecure that they need a new car as a status symbol of pseudo wealth, I think that's possibly something you've convinced yourself of in your head while you drive around in your older car (not that there's anything wrong with driving an older car). Maybe in the back of your mind you're actually a bit self conscious of it?

Not at all, im delighted with my car. I have her well kept and actually get great pleasure in driving an older car thats not costing me 150-200 in weekly payments.

Was in a garage forecourt recently and a chap parked in a Mr Whippie van was gesturing at me with thumbs up etc. I wasnt sure what he getting at so I went over and asked is everything ok? He says...yeah man just admiring your car...she's a minter for the year fair play to you...sound man!

I don't begrudge anybody in a new car, just not my cup of tea dropping that much wedge and financing new cars when I could think of better things to spend or invest that much money on! Each to their own though.

kirving

bob.k wrote: »

There is nothing a new 50k car can do that my car cannot do besides massive depreciation and wasted money....im not insecure in that I need a new car as a status symbol of pseudo wealth

Just don't crash it. Safety systems in new cars have come on leaps and bounds since then.

Idbatterim wrote: »

Pretty hilarious how a country with no car manufacturering loves sending billions to Germany , Japan etc every year ...

Don't have much of a choice there now do we? In any case, the Automotive manufacturing / R&D sector employees around 4000 people or so in Ireland doing some very advanced tech. Small in the grand scheme of things, but it's there.

bob.k

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Are you trying to say people in other countries don’t buy new cars?

Also McDonalds? Haha.....finance is signed off so no chance in hell people can just buy without showing they can afford car

No but its a fact that Ireland has an obsession with new car ownership in relation to our to EU neighbours...I think the stats were shared here on boards somewhere!

And yeah I personally know somebody on not much more that min wage driving a new car on PCP.