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Chapter 2 - Finding Nemo

Swashbuckler

2018 - Chapter One: The Day That Never Comes - Post 1 to 634

2019 - Chapter Two: Finding Nemo - Post 635 onwards

Original Post:
I've decided to set up one of these in the hope that every now and then someone will come along and in their good nature, answer one of my many questions about my training. I find I've been posting a lot of questions in the Random Running thread so maybe this is a better way of going about it.

Background
36 year old male. Been running for 7 years but only started properly focusing my training since January. Only learned what a tempo, LSR etc. were this year! Previous to that I just went out most days and ran 6 miles at as fast as I could manage. No direction or focus to my training. Had ran some half marathons and mixed in circuit training. But this year I really fell in love with running. Thanks to advice from people on here and chatting to some advanced runners I've met at many races this year I've manage to see significant improvements.

PB's;
5k - 18:22 - Parkrun (2017)
10k - 37:44 - Run Killarney (2017)
Half Marathon: 1:31:35 Charleville (2012). Most recent Half was in June - Half Thru the Heart which I did in 1:33. Extremely tough course and the distance was a little short.

Short to Medium term targets (over the next ~10 months);
5k - Sub 18
10k - Sub 37
Half Marathon - Sub 1:30

Long term targets/dreams;
5k - Sub 17
10k - Sub 35
Run my first Full Marathon (maybe by end of next year).
Run a really good Full Marathon.

Myself and my wife have a baby on the way so I'd say the training could be impacted for a while but I really hope I can keep it up to the same level.

I generally do two/three sessions a week (mix of intervals and tempo), one long run and the rest easy runs. Train 5-6 times a week with one day off.

I do all my Mon-Fri training within my one hour lunch break. LSR is either at the weekend or in the morning before work.

I know I should probably join a club. I would love to but we'll see how life changes once baby arrives. Even if I could do one session a week with a club I think it would be of benefit.

Last weeks training;
Mon: 7 miles steady/progressive starting at 7min/mile and finishing at 6:30min/mile. I'm thinking this run isn't of much benefit as it's in no mans land pacewise for me?
Tues: 5 x 1 mile intervals. Intervals at 5:50min/mile average with 3min recovery between.
Wednesday: 10k easy/recovery @ 7:30min/mile. Not sure if this should be slower but I read that it's bad to have easy and LSR paces the same i.e. too much running at the slow pace. The 7:30 pace felt easy.
Thursday: 15 mile LSR @ 8min/mile. Total time: 2 hours.
Friday: 4 mile recovery jog @ 8:50 min/mile.
Saturday: Parkrun 5k - 18:22.
Sunday: Rest

Probably overdid it a bit last week. Not sure to be honest but I feel good. I'm still learning. I'll be giving up the Parkruns in a couple of weeks for a while so I wanted to run a couple of them pretty hard to end up on a good note.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I'm looking to improve and still relatively new to proper training so I'm willing to take any advice on board.

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Comments

Younganne

great race report and congrats on the medals P, thats fine racing!!

B if you join Strava you'd know he did a treadie run after landing in US:D

Younganne

Swashbuckler wrote: »

All good B. Cheers for checking in. In the States with work so haven't had a chance to update the log

oops overlapped!!!

OOnegative

Younganne wrote: »

great race report and congrats on the medals P, thats fine racing!!

B if you join Strava you'd know he did a treadie run after landing in US:D

Getting there, recently started using Garmin Connect so Strava is the next step........

Younganne

OOnegative wrote: »

Getting there, recently started using Garmin Connect so Strava is the next step........

I never update Garmin connect anymore, just strava!!:o

Swashbuckler

I've fallen so far behind on this log it feels like the night before the leaving cert and it's just too late to cram it all in! In summary the weeks prior to Boston were very good. In particular a steady 10M at 6.40 really was a beaut of a session. The week in Boston was full on with a lot of meetings, socializing, dinners etc but managed to get all my runs in apart from the long run when I got back. Was shattered on the Saturday that I flew in and Sunday was my wife's birthday so no way was I leaving the family for a long run. Had a lovely day in Spanish point with wife, baba and mum in law.
This week has been good but recovery from Boston has been slow. Until today I was pretty wrecked. Racing Dromina 10M tomorrow. Shocking weather forecast so at best it will be a good blow out. Sorry for the lack of updates!

skyblue46

Best of luck tomorrow Paul. As you say the weather won't be ideal to put it mildly. Have a great run anyway.

OOnegative

Best of luck tomorrow P, run well man!!

Kellygirl

Good luck tomorrow P. All cobwebs will be well and truly blown away.

Swashbuckler

Dromina 10M Race Report

On a day where it felt like everyone in the country was racing........ I also raced...

Like I said in my previous post I'm way behind on this log. Have been finding it hard to keep up the log with all the goings on of late. Social media has had to take a bit of a back seat. Still keeping track of everyone's trials and tribulations but moreso a quick catchup than spending a silly amount of time online.

Training has been going very well. Boston was an interruption as I said previously and wasn't ideal so close to this race. But I'm really racing for sharpness and learning rather than these races being anything near what I would call 'target races' so I wasn't too hard on myself when I felt pretty wrecked all week. I've learned at this stage that you really don't have to be feeling tip top to run a good race.

I remember a few months ago debating whether I would do Dromina or Kingdom 10M (both on Sunday). I went with Dromina as it's literally over the road from my hometown. After racing it, I probably should have gone with Castleisland. Haha. I hadn't really thought too much about how I was gonna approach this one. With Boston being a major distraction and then tired legs all week it wasn't really til Sunday morning that I had a think about what I was gonna go for. Conditions were terrible as I left the house. Drove out from limerick and it was gusts and rain. Got to dromina and it wasn't quite as bad. Met my dad and clubmate from limerick. Had a quick chat and headed off for a warmup. We lined up around 1km outside of town. The route would have us pass through the village 1km after the start which was a nice touch.

First thing I noticed at the start line was that there wasn't many faster club runners. For selfish reasons I was looking for a group I could slot in with. I was convinced I had seen a 60min pacer earlier until I realised he was actually pacing the 10k which was starting later. Thoughts of having a nice pace group to settle in with disappeared quickly. I still reckoned I'd take off at 6min/mile pace and see how it went. I had an idea of some of the route in particular a monster hill heading out of Newtown which I drive every time I visit home. That was 7 miles in and something to look forward to! I knew 6min/mile was a bit aggressive given the conditions and the course but feck it. What's the worse that could happen. I'd come to a breathless stop a few miles in? No biggie.

Bit of a mishap at the start with the lead car caught in no man's land doing a u-turn and we all had to adjust our way around it as it blocked the road. I had started with my clubmate and a few hundred metres in we had settled into a group of five. Two lead lads had gone off ahead. One of them was the winner of Adare 10k and Mallow 10M so there was no hope of catching him. Nice thing about the first mile was it brought us through the town where there was great support from the locals but also the 10k runners who were setting off half an hour later. Our group settled into a nice pace. As always the first mile can be a little quick. First few miles were reasonably sheltered and generous. Was feeling really good. Similar to how I felt in Charleville running the same pace.
Miles 1, 2 and 3 clocked at 5.54, 6.00, 5.57. Some generous downhill sections in those first few miles.

By mile 4 we had lost a couple of the group. My teammate was about 10m ahead. He always starts more aggressively than me. I pushed up to join with him again. Mile 4 had some sneaky drags which got me thinking if I was being too aggressive. Bit early in a ten miler to be feeling this. Mile 4 clocked at 6.09. Not too bad but I was definitely questioning things especially what was waiting for us at mile 7. We now got back out on to the main road and headed back towards Newtown. Could feel the conditions hit us here. In fairness to my clubmate we worked together as much as possible and swapped lead and shared the load. Of course one lad just drafted us the whole way. I recalled a race report from dublinrunner last year where he asked the lad behind him if he was gonna share the load. I felt like doing the same. Haha. I didn't have the balls to say anything. As we approached Newtown I was really feeling it and knowing the worst was yet to come. At this point our drafter passed and pushed on.

We came through Newtown and the support was great here too. Then we hit "the hill". Ugh... It was painful. Pace slowed to 8min/mile. In the past I'd probably have tried to push hard going up the hill but I've since learned that easing back on pace to maintain effort works better for me. It allowed me to recover a little quicker at the other side.

Miles 5, 6 and 7 clocked at 6.03, 6.11, 6.46.

6.46 reflected the toughness of the hill through Newtown. I had hoped we would catch the lad ahead but we struggled up the hill equally as bad as he did and he maintained the gap. I had pushed on a bit from my clubmate at this stage trying to chase down the drafter.

I knew the other side of Newtown still had some lumps and bumps. Did my best to chase down the drafter but he was maintaining the lead. I eventually recovered from the hill and managed to push on a bit.

Mile 8 and 9 clocked at 6.33, 6.14.

The last mile was actually pretty enjoyable. Lungs had recovered completely but the legs didn't have a lot left to push on. It was all about getting to the finish line in one piece now. No hope of closing the gap on the lad ahead. As we entered the village again I could hear the person on the speaker saying I was the winner of the 10k. No no no. Haha. Wrong guy. Crossed the finish line around 61.45ish. Mile 10 clocked at 5.52. On paper the time wasn't great but I'm very very happy with that performance. A decent effort and it feels like a big performance isn't too far off. Finished fourth and clubmate was fifth. A good day in tricky conditions on a tough enough course. My legs knew all about it Monday.

Next up is great limerick run marathon relay. Looking forward to that. I also signed up for Dunshaughlin so I'm really looking forward to that one. Feeling good!

Sorry for the disjointed report which was written over multiple days.

Last bit of good news is me and the missus have another little blessing on the way. All going well September will be a busy month and Charleville is officially off the cards..... But how bad....

skyblue46

A quick congratulations on the run. Definite progress there! However the main news in that post is the impending increase in the number of family members! Fantastic news. Pass on my best wishes to she who I only know as "Mama". Exciting times ahead for you. Enjoy every minute of it!! Thrilled for you.

diego_b

Ah great news there Paul, fine race report of course but the kicker at the end steals it!

healy1835

Congrats on the new arrival P........from my experience you get faster with each one

Kellygirl

Ah brilliant news P. Congrats on the impending arrival. That’s fantastic.

Great report too. Enjoyed reading it and love how positive you are about the race.

ariana`

Congrats to you and the misses on the wonderful news P, just lovely, how exciting, your little miss will be a big sister

Wubble Wubble

Wishing you the very best with the impending arrival.

Great race and report too. No mention of whether the tights helped or hindered?

mister paul

Great racing and report P. Congrats on the impending arrival.

eyrie

Ah brilliant! Just brilliant, congrats to you all and hope your wife is doing well.
Great report too. Sounds like you're set up well for things to come now, will be exciting to follow. Was very envious watching your Boston runs pop up on Strava - I spent a lot of time there a few years back and haven't been over for ages now. Some lovely running spots there!

aquinn

So glad I dedicated my afternoon to catching up on your log as I had to go back to February.

Firstly, massive congratulations to you both.

Delighted to see you back racing. That Munster 4 mile report, brilliant. Good man P.

Where's our Boston update though? Such a wonderful place to visit.

AuldManKing

oh Wow - congrats on the impending arrival, the things you do to give you an excuse not to train for a Marathon for the next few years!!

Well done on the race - super performance & time with that hill - its looked monstrous.

Swashbuckler

Thanks for the well wishes everyone. Very excited. If the new arrival is anything like our little girl we're in for some fun!

ariana` wrote:

Congrats to you and the misses on the wonderful news P, just lovely, how exciting, your little miss will be a big sister

I worry for the new arrival. Haha. Our girl has a big sprinkling of lunatic.

Wubble Wubble wrote:

Great race and report too. No mention of whether the tights helped or hindered?

Helped! Of course. The rest of ye will catch on eventually. Never mind those Nike 4%. I'm all about the tights 4%.

Baby75

Great racing P, well done on the 4th place as well

but massive congratulations on your great news very exciting times a head for you all

Swashbuckler

aquinn wrote:

Where's our Boston update though? Such a wonderful place to visit.

Forgot to reply to this. Yeah the last few weeks were so rushed I kinda slipped Boston. Truth be told I didn't see much of it. The conference I was at was all located in the hotel and neighboring convention centre. I got three runs outdoors. One of them was Wakefield and two were Boston central. The highlight by far was when my buddy met me at 6.30am one morning and took me through Boston Commons, over some bridges and along the water and looped back again. The other run was down by the waterfront. I like Boston. So many runners out and about very early.

Younganne

Congrats on the 4th place, great run in tough conditions.
Best wishes to you & you Mrs N on the impending arrival. Big changes going from 1 to 2 but such great fun.:D

Swashbuckler

I've been really neglecting this log lately. Finding it hard to balance everything and probably rightly so internet browsing has suffered!

Luke has been throwing some challenging weeks my way lately and I have to say I love it. December feels like a long time ago and I definitely feel like I'm back on track. Said to Luke after Dromina that I feel like a big performance is very close.

Playing catchup a bit.

Monday 15th to Sunday 21st

Monday 7 miles easy
Tuesday 7 miles easy
Wednesday 5x3 minÂ @ 5.50 (75 sec rec), 3 min jog, 2 x (20,30,40 sec hard off 1 min)
Thursday 7 miles easy
Friday 7 miles easyÂ + 6x 20 sec strides
Saturday 14 miles progression
Sunday Off

After Dromina I was as tired as I would expect after a tough route and tough weather. By Wednesday I was in good shape for a very solid session. Definitely like these time based sessions. I'm not sure why. I must ask coach. Haha. Time based sessions seem to suit me better than distance based. Would love to hear people's opinions on the difference between time based vs distance based sessions.

One thing I have definitely noticed in the last few months is my ability to tune into effort in my sessions. I'm needing to look at the watch way less than I did last year. All that calibrating had paid off!

Most of the easy days have been between 8 and 8.30.

For the Tuesday session all splits were 5.45 to 5.50 pace and the Hard was 4.33 5.05 5.20 pace.

Was told to run the 14M as a slight progression if I was feeling OK. Was tired on the morning of this so wasn't exactly ecstatic about a progression ahead of me. I had decided that if after a few miles I felt like going easy I would. But it was just one of those days where I felt great straight away. Decided to progress it in chunks. Probably finished it a little aggressively but part of me wanted to see what 6.30 pace felt like on tired legs after a hard week. It was tough but not 'losing form' tough. Was very happy with my weeks work.

Monday 22nd to Sunday 28th

Monday 7 miles easy
Tuesday7x1kmÂ @ 6.10 pace off 60 sec
Wednesday 7 miles easyÂ + 6x15 sec strides
Thursday 6 miles easy
Friday4x5 minÂ @ 5.50 (90 sec rec), 3 min jog, 20,30,40 sec hard off 1 min
Saturday 14 miles easy

Another week where I ran really well but definitely feeling the cumulative fatigue especially by Saturday.

Again the sessions went well. Tuesday was a cruise session all of which were almost bang on the lowest of which being 6.06. Have been feeling tired over the past while so by the end of this one I was working for it. Keeping form has been my mantra this year. Under no circumstances am I losing form for pace. So form was solid throughout.

Fridays session was a nice progression on the week before. SessionsÂ like these have my confidence really high. On paper they've had me a little worried but I've been able to execute them very well. All of them were more or less 5.46. A little on the quick side but all good. Hard was 4.26, 4.55, 5 15. Solid.

Saturdays long run sparked a bit of debate on Strava. Was very very tired by mile 10 or 11. In my mind I feel like I should be pushing through even though I'm prescribed easy. For me easy doesn't always mean easy. Sometimes you're in the middle of a hard block and regardless of being prescribed easy it sometimes just feels like a bit of a slog. So I maintained pace even though I was tired. Another one I'd be Id be interested in hearing peoples opinions.

Feeling very good these days and the relay marathon ahead this weekend.

Murph_D

Well you said you’ve been dialing into running by feel - and if it doesn’t feel easy, it probably isn’t. So you should have slowed and given yourself a break, in my opinion. On the other hand long runs, even easy ones, feel harder as they go on, but what you describe sounds more of a struggle than that.

Edit - Did you have HR data? What does it tell you?

Swashbuckler

Murph_D wrote:

Well you said youâ€™ve been dialing into running by feel - and if it doesnâ€™t feel easy, it probably isnâ€™t. So you should have slowed and given yourself a break, in my opinion. On the other hand long runs, even easy ones, feel harder as they go on, but what you describe sounds more of a struggle than that.

Murph_D wrote:

Edit - Did you have HR data? What does it tell you?

Cheers D. I honestly don't pay too much attention to HR in general apart from the odd check. By the end of this one I felt like breathing and HR were OK considering the elevation and weather.legs were just very tired. I figured I've had a decent 3 or 4 weeks block of training so it was to be expected. I'm always of the opinion that in these situations slowing down wouldn't really help all that much. Tired legs are tired legs regardless of whether I'm going 8.00 or 8.30. I feel like not all easy should be easy and some of these long runs are meant to be a bit of a slog towards the end.
But in saying that I'm always interested to hear other opinions.

Duanington

I'd be looking at the week as a whole ( or even the 2 week block) - the long run was the day after a good session on the Friday, you were bound to be a bit tired.

"pushing on" on is fine in my book for a specific long run, you're not training for a marathon or anything and given you have a day off the next day - but I also think D is onto something here - the other easy days are the days where you make those recovery gains following sessions, they're the days when it makes no sense to push through anything.

Nice week

shotgunmcos

agree nice week. I saw that progression run on Strava and it was a thing of beauty in terms of the pace control.

On the cumulative fatigue. I'm using Hansons at the moment and I've always used heart rate. The legs should feel tired on that 2 week block, particularly since you have ramped up to it progressively. You did a session the day before that 14m so its normal enough to feel some fatigue in the legs.

Heart rate on the other hand is different.

If effort was more and HR more (5-10+ bpm over usual) but pace faster too then ok, check again on another run(s)
If HR is up and effort is up but pace is not what you expect - this could be fatigue and worth doing and monitoring an easy run or 2 to see the values
If HR is up on easy runs and you can't seem to get it down no matter how slow you run but legs feel ok, caution!

Overall its great that you know your RPE well enough to gauge the approach to sessions without HR or with pace only. Its worth looking back on HR from time to time as a reference point to get to know what is normal for you for different types of run. This translates then to checking it on a run that doesn't feel right for some reason on perhaps backing off before its too late.

Swashbuckler

Cheers for the inputs folks. Some very valuable advice. Felt super this morning on my easy run so no damage done anyway. HR was good. Everything felt good. Some lingering minor tiredness in the legs but nothing I'd worry about.

AuldManKing

Maybe you're just mentally weak, P??