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How the f**k can you afford a decent car?

[Deleted User]

Since my pay has increased nearly 50% over the last couple of years I thought I would buy a car that's not a thirsty, gutless and uncomfortable. I thought it would be nice to get something that had a bit of power, didn't cripple me on long journeys, and could play a podcast from USB without having wires all over the cabin leading into a homemade aux port in the glovebox.

But if I get something that meets those requirements, isn't ten years old, and doesn't have over 100,000 miles on it, I'd need about €15,000. How does anyone save that kind of money every few years working in a regular job? Do most people spread it out using finance? Even if I got finance, I would have to pay nearly €100 a week and over €2,000 in interest, and that's more than my pay can stand.

This is a serious inquiry. How does this work for most people? How do they lay their hands on new or new-ish cars? Are they all selling drugs on the side?

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patmahe

I recently imported a VW CC for a lot less than your budget (spent just over 10k all in), it does have 100,000 miles on it but has been very well maintained which is backed up by a full service history. It is in very good condition, comfortable, fast, is top spec and anyone who sees it/sits in it compliments it.

My plan is to continue to maintain it well and use it until it just stops working, it will be worthless to anyone but me in a few years anyway, if it lasts any longer than that its a bonus.

To answer your question, yes most new cars are on PCP, I have looked into that option but in most cases the deposit is big and the payments are generally quite high, even to get into something very ordinary.

Over 3 years what I did works out cheaper, but of course there is the risk the car won't last 3 years. But in my experience provided they are maintained, cars generally last far longer. I usually scrap them in the end unless I can sell them for more than their scrap value and then I repeat the process. I have never bought new as there isn't the value in it for me.

ELM327

I've moved away from finance.
Replaced my old iphone (free upfront, 50 pm 24month contract) with new iPhone XR bought for cash, bill now 9.99 per month
Replaced my new car (Ioniq EV, 526 a month) with a 2005 e60 5 series. Paid for in cash, €2500 (which was less than the deposit I paid for the Ioniq), and it's faster than 90-95% of daily cars on the road in ireland, with a sub 6 seconds 0-60 time. Still does 36-38 mpg even with some hooning.

I used to be one of these "financing" people but I've done that and had enough of it. You don't need finance to have a nice car, you just need to forget the Irish hang up with the year on your plates.

kirving

iamtony wrote: »

It makes them happy for a while but in the long run they will be broke.
I bought a car because I need one for work and I gave 22k cash. I'm saving for my next one.

Whether you borrow money or save it, it's largely the same in the long run. You'd have a very poor quality of life if you decided to save for a house rather than take out a mortgage.

I would much prefer to spend the bank's money on a decent car than save for a few years to buy it. The interest rate is a negligible amount per month and I can drive a decent car in the time someone else would be saving for it.

I can then use my own money for things more important than a car, and leave the bank's money tied up in a car.

Yes, it's going to depreciate, but so will the car that the guy has saved to buy.

Basically it comes down to the question:
Am I prepared to pay X amount of interest for the loan, rather than wait to buy a new car?

lawred2

ELM327 wrote: »

I've moved away from finance.
Replaced my old iphone (free upfront, 50 pm 24month contract) with new iPhone XR bought for cash, bill now 9.99 per month
Replaced my new car (Ioniq EV, 526 a month) with a 2005 e60 5 series. Paid for in cash, €2500 (which was less than the deposit I paid for the Ioniq), and it's faster than 90-95% of daily cars on the road in ireland, with a sub 6 seconds 0-60 time. Still does 36-38 mpg even with some hooning.

I used to be one of these "financing" people but I've done that and had enough of it. You don't need finance to have a nice car, you just need to forget the Irish hang up with the year on your plates.

sadly our twathole of an insurance industry has the same ludicrous hangups

patmahe

BarryD2 wrote: »

80,000 miles, 2010???? Hmm, be great if it was that?

High mileage kills a car as far as I've seen, things just start wearing out. Even if it's been regularly serviced.

Depends on the usage more than the mileage, if most of those 80,000 miles have been spent doing a cruise from Dublin to Galway on a motorway then it could be in better nick than a car with half that on the clock that has spent its life in stop start traffic along the quays.

I think like most things, it depends on the means you have available and the level of risk you are willing to accept and also how much you value having a new shiny car sitting on your drive.

Kilboor

Try living beside a university, 161+ N plate Golfs........

tossy

Kilboor wrote: »

Try living beside a university, 161+ N plate Golfs........

Because EVERYONE going to a university is..

A.19/20
B. Driving a 161 + car

:rolleyes:

Kilboor

tossy wrote: »

Because EVERYONE going to a university is..

A.19/20
B. Driving a 161 + car

:rolleyes:

I did specify the N plate to indicate they're young lads, I see quite a few.

I'm only 24 myself and 2 years finished, some lovely Mammy and Daddys

ELM327

lawred2 wrote: »

sadly our twathole of an insurance industry has the same ludicrous hangups

Some do, some don't
My insurance is only ~15% higher on the 2005 e60 compared to the Ioniq.

tossy

Kilboor wrote: »

I did specify the N plate to indicate they're young lads, I see quite a few.

I'm only 24 myself and 2 years finished, some lovely Mammy and Daddys

I'd say half the N plates in work are people over 30 who were only spurred into being bothered to pass a test by the recent law changes.

Kilboor

tossy wrote: »

I'd say half the N plates in work are people over 30 who were only spurred into being bothered to pass a test by the recent law changes.

No my point literally was they're young lads haha sure I can see em

tossy

Kilboor wrote: »

No my point literally was they're young lads haha sure I can see em

So you spend all day looking at younglads coming and gonig from college ?

Kilboor

tossy wrote: »

So you spend all day looking at younglads coming and gonig from college ?

Considering the entrance is across from where I work yes :rolleyes:

CoBo55

Shefwedfan wrote: »

And breath, you will get a heart attack. Nobody moving anything

Most cars after initial launch are not available at 0%, agree?
They say as a new model for say 12-15 months, Agree?
Normally they will get a mid cycle refresh in year 3, agree?
Then new model in year 6-7, agree?
So from 15 months onwards you typically see offers of 0% etc?

Any problem with the above?

As per original post you get offers like 0% when the car is getting replaced.....why would they offer 0% on a new released model which should have good sales

I got the facelift Octavia on 0% one of the first sold by the garage, 1 litre petrol dsg.

BarryD2

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

People see cars and particularly PCP that way now. If you can afford €2, 3, 400 a month and it gets you into a brand new car, then why not. Having a new car is nice, it's reliable, it's safe, it's got all the "mod cons", it's a predictable ownership experience and it's a nice thing to have. If you have a healthy income and can afford the repayments, sure why not. Why do you want to own a car outright anyway, what's the advantage? Having all your capital tied up in a depreciating asset? Sounds great.

Aren't their downsides - would you not be bothered about mileage creeping up, what about a few scratches or dents picked up in car parks caused by other numpties? There's plenty people shouldn't be let out in a car these days, as they've poor skills parking or any sort of close manoeuvre. You meet them on rural roads where you have to pull into the ditch whilst they sail along oblivious of the stretch of tarmac between their left wheels and the verge. With PCP, you have to take right good care of the car and keep the miles down? Good for dealers to shift product, not so good for customers in real life.

Toyotafanboi

BarryD2 wrote: »

Aren't their downsides - would you not be bothered about mileage creeping up, what about a few scratches or dents picked up in car parks caused by other numpties? There's plenty people shouldn't be let out in a car these days, as they've poor skills parking or any sort of close manoeuvre. You meet them on rural roads where you have to pull into the ditch whilst they sail along oblivious of the stretch of tarmac between their left wheels and the verge. With PCP, you have to take right good care of the car and keep the miles down? Good for dealers to shift product, not so good for customers in real life.

Not really, the product is there to be used, not wrapped up in cotton wool. Fair wear and tear is acceptable on PCP in terms of scuffs/ stone chips, car park dings etc. The dealer wants you to trade in again in 3 years so they aren't going to be beating down your trade in too much when they need the deal.

It's treat it no different to any car previously owned. Try not to damage it, but if it happens it gets fixed, it's cleaned regularly etc. It gets serviced, brakes, tyres etc as and when it needs them.

I wouldn't say it's any more, or less cared for than any car I've owned outright.

I should add, our current PCP is up in July and we are currently looking at what to do in regards to refinance the balloon or trade in again.

[Deleted User]

mloc123 wrote: »

On the topic in general on how people afford cards, average industrial wage is now ~46k which is about 2900/month net.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics

The mean and median are wildly far apart and the mean should not be the reported figure. It's put out there to make it look like there is not such a huge salary imbalance.

BarryD2

Sorry I'm skeptical of PCP. Figure better to buy at lowish mileage for cash, service it and keep it for as long as possible. Not worth much when you finish but overall annual cost is less.

ShadowHearth

I think a lot people don't realize, that there is no Perfect car, there are only Perfect CarS.

Everyone is different and has different needs and preferences.
Some people prefer new, normal cars, others like old nice ones with higher running costs. Some like sports cars, other like eco boxes that get them from A to B.
Same way everyone have different budgets for the car. Just because you prefer driving old car, does not mean someone is stupid for buying new or newish car if they can let themselves!
Same way we are different how we want to spend money. I don't go out every week and spend hundreds on drink. My phone is 2 year old Huawei P9 and I just went sim free instead of getting new one etc. So I don't see why I could not spend extra on monthly payments on my PCP car.

Another problem is how people look at income. Someone who makes 45k a year might not able to buy PCP car worth 25-30k, but someone who makes 30k a year - can. It all depends how you control your money and how you spend it, where you live etc. Just do maths.

And last thing that grinds my gears: If you can't buy it outright, you can't afford finance... Feck off. If that would be the case, there would be feck all new cars and the ones that on the road, would be only for the rich people. There would be feck all second hand cars too. Saying that, if you got only 4k on your bank account and buying new car, which has deposit 3.5k, then you are an idiot. But if you have 8k and buy car with deposit of 3.5k, then you already have a few brain cells. Good for you.

[Deleted User]

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I think a lot people don't realize, that there is no Perfect car, there are only Perfect CarS.

Everyone is different and has different needs and preferences.
Some people prefer new, normal cars, others like old nice ones with higher running costs. Some like sports cars, other like eco boxes that get them from A to B.
Same way everyone have different budgets for the car. Just because you prefer driving old car, does not mean someone is stupid for buying new or newish car if they can let themselves!
Same way we are different how we want to spend money. I don't go out every week and spend hundreds on drink. My phone is 2 year old Huawei P9 and I just went sim free instead of getting new one etc. So I don't see why I could not spend extra on monthly payments on my PCP car.

Another problem is how people look at income. Someone who makes 45k a year might not able to buy PCP car worth 25-30k, but someone who makes 30k a year - can. It all depends how you control your money and how you spend it, where you live etc. Just do maths.

And last thing that grinds my gears: If you can't buy it outright, you can't afford finance... Feck off. If that would be the case, there would be feck all new cars and the ones that on the road, would be only for the rich people. There would be feck all second hand cars too. Saying that, if you got only 4k on your bank account and buying new car, which has deposit 3.5k, then you are an idiot. But if you have 8k and buy car with deposit of 3.5k, then you already have a few brain cells. Good for you.

It's like saying if you can not afford to drop €300k you can not afford a house.

I have a middle of the road S80 D4, just about to hit 100KM mark. I afford it because I don't smoke, rarely drink (to be fair when I do, I really do), and was lucky with when I bought my house.
I calculated the finance and if I could afford it, I could and can still save a good chunk each month. I don't care about depreciation as I drive cars until they are not economically viable to run anymore.

lalababa

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Finance by it self is not evil, it's people who don't understand it are idiots, and make it look evil.

I have no problem financing cars. I do my research, do maths if I can afford it and make sure I have savings reserved. I much prefer spending banks money then my own. If it's low apr or Zero, then it's even better.
New/newish cars are a luxury items and you decide yourself how much you willing to pay for that luxury. I drive 120km 4-6 days a week. Buying ****ty Micra would be the cheapest option. On the other hand I spend 2h in car each day, so might as well spend extra money on something nice.
15k can buy you a nice car. Even 10k can buy you a nice car. A lot of people financing it. For every 100 people who do their research before buying car on finance and happy out in the end, there will be one lialia, who will just sign a document and only then realise that he can't afford. Everyone's fault, but not his.

500 quid can buy you a 'nice car' if by 'nice car' you are not referring in ANY way to the year on the reg.! BTW if you 'buy' a car on finance it's not yours, it's just a loan and you cannot afford it. You don't own it, you just think you do.
Let's say I had only 500 quid in my pocket but could save 500 a month (by foregoing other luxuries/essentials and working overtime) to put into pcp. So I could 'buy' a new BMW. Everything is fine and dandy driving around in my new BMW.. neighbors saying isn't he doing well for himself..till they cut my hours at work..I get sick...etc.

theteal

tossy wrote: »

I'd say half the N plates in work are people over 30 who were only spurred into being bothered to pass a test by the recent law changes.

The law changes aren't recent. I'm of that over 30 generation and the law to clamp down on L plates is what spurred me to do my test about 9 years ago. That's when the unaccompanied fines came in.

[Deleted User]

lalababa wrote: »

500 quid can buy you a 'nice car' if by 'nice car' you are not referring in ANY way to the year on the reg.! BTW if you 'buy' a car on finance it's not yours, it's just a loan and you cannot afford it. You don't own it, you just think you do.
Let's say I had only 500 quid in my pocket but could save 500 a month (by foregoing other luxuries/essentials and working overtime) to put into pcp. So I could 'buy' a new BMW. Everything is fine and dandy driving around in my new BMW.. neighbors saying isn't he doing well for himself..till they cut my hours at work..I get sick...etc.

So you are never getting a mortgage then?

Toyotafanboi

500 quid can buy you a 'nice car' if by 'nice car' you are not referring in ANY way to the year on the reg.!

Sure you can get a nice car for €500, I agree. I like old cars though.

If you want something nice in the sense of say modern safety equipment or infotainment, reliability etc, €500 won't get you the time of day. Nice doesn't exclusively mean just a new reg and often a new car gives you more than an old car than just a new reg plate.

BTW if you 'buy' a car on finance it's not yours, it's just a loan and you cannot afford it. You don't own it, you just think you do.

I'm not sure where anyone said they think they own the the car.

I'm not saying everybody who takes a car on finance could afford to buy it outright but you've really no evidence to the contrary to say "they" cannot afford it.

That whole thing is really just a blanket statement you made up in an attempt to put people down.

lalababa

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you are never getting a mortgage then?

Get a house mortgage, get a car mortgage, get a furniture loan, a new appliance loan, holiday loan, wedding loan,choose life , choose debt.
Ask any honest car mechanic if you can buy ,that is actually buy, a reliable clean car for 500 quid.

[Deleted User]

lalababa wrote: »

Get a house mortgage, get a car mortgage, get a furniture loan, a new appliance loan, holiday loan, wedding loan,choose life , choose debt.
Ask any honest car mechanic if you can buy ,that is actually buy, a reliable clean car for 500 quid.

So, never getting a mortgage then?

Toyotafanboi

lalababa wrote: »

Ask any honest car mechanic if you can buy ,that is actually buy, a reliable clean car for 500 quid.

They'd probably say, no.

Most €500 cars are stop gap yokes that you can drive into the ground for 6 months, dispose of and then rise and repeat with another €500 car.

There's very few €500 cars that will give a number of years trouble free motoring without financial input.

It's possible, don't get me wrong, but lets not act like it's all free.

The_Honeybadger

lalababa wrote: »

500 quid can buy you a 'nice car' if by 'nice car' you are not referring in ANY way to the year on the reg.! BTW if you 'buy' a car on finance it's not yours, it's just a loan and you cannot afford it. You don't own it, you just think you do.
Let's say I had only 500 quid in my pocket but could save 500 a month (by foregoing other luxuries/essentials and working overtime) to put into pcp. So I could 'buy' a new BMW. Everything is fine and dandy driving around in my new BMW.. neighbors saying isn't he doing well for himself..till they cut my hours at work..I get sick...etc.

So nobody that gets a car loan can afford the car they have? Nonsense

I pay a car loan and simultaneously save multiples of the repayment amount each month. It’s not worth clearing the loan at 3%. Not everybody is at the pin of their collar each month paying for their car, in fact I would say most aren’t.

I get what you are saying about circumstances changing but most people have insurance for illness and a car loan is going to be the least of your worries in that scenario. Getting hours cut can also happen but if there is a good chance of that you shouldn’t be getting the loan in the first place.

ELM327

Indeed if you're in a job that is paid hourly rather than a regular salary perhaps substantial financial commitment is not the best idea.

lalababa

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Sure you can get a nice car for €500, I agree. I like old cars though.

If you want something nice in the sense of say modern safety equipment or infotainment, reliability etc, €500 won't get you the time of day. Nice doesn't exclusively mean just a new reg and often a new car gives you more than an old car than just a new reg plate.

I'm not sure where anyone said they think they own the the car.

I'm not saying everybody who takes a car on finance could afford to buy it outright but you've really no evidence to the contrary to say "they" cannot afford it.

That whole thing is really just a blanket statement you made up in an attempt to put people down.

I'm not trying to put anyone down thank you very much. I would Hazzard a guess that you know very little about cars. There are solid saloons (and hatches such as clio) with very high safety features. Reliability..just get your mechanic to check and service! Infact there can be less to go wrong with older less complicated designs. As for infotainment ..what exactly is the deal breaker there....? Must have wifi??