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Border Poll discussion

segarox

i hope some people from northern ireland are reading this because it concerns them.

i've been watching a few videos on what might happen to the north following brexit and one of the options is to reunify with ireland, which i believe, is not everyone cup of tea. me personally as an irishman, i have no strong feelings about this but i think it'd be nice to see a complete ireland on a map. however, i think i may have seen an option that hasn't been considered.

what if the north was to vote to rejoin ireland but in name only; establish yourselves as a separate state with your own government, your own police force (technically you have that already; Stormont and the PSNI) and your own currency.

could have the benefits of staying in the EU and not have the unpleasant taste of irish in your mouths. or am i talking rubbish? please, i'd to hear what you have to say.

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[Deleted User]

downcow wrote: »

I hope there are plenty more like cause people like you will ensure there is never a UI

It wont be my decision,when there is a border poll,the majority will decide.my opinions and facts wont come into it

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

If the UK comes to an agreement with the EU there probably won't be a UI in any of our lifetimes Francie.

Another deluded soul who thinks it is plain sailing once the UK get through what is widely regarded as 'the easy bit'.

Outside forces like Scotland are still a major threat to the union. Not to mention the complete undermining of and shafting of the whole concept of the union and northern Irish Unionists in particular.

downcow

downcow wrote: »

I am curios if you will be banning many others eg USA, France, Holland, Spain, China, etc etc

The initial stuff you posted was about what Uk done around the world
But I’m glad you have clarified. As long as they don’t hurt you it doesn’t matter what they do to anyone else.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Another deluded soul who thinks it is plain sailing once the UK get through what is widely regarded as 'the easy bit'.

Outside forces like Scotland are still a major threat to the union. Not to mention the complete undermining of and shafting of the whole concept of the union and northern Irish Unionists in particular.

I think thats all in your head and Scotland isn't an outside force it's part of the UK-ridiculing what people hold dear isn't going to persuade people to believe your talk of compromise.

downcow

Folks there are wee glimmers now and again on this thread of compromise and sense. And then it degenerates again into anti British nonsense from people with huge chips on their shoulders who want nobody’s culture but their own in this new Ireland.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I think thats all in your head and Scotland isn't an outside force it's part of the UK-ridiculing what people hold dear isn't going to persuade people to believe your talk of compromise.

If people vote to leave the union..Scots or irish, they, by definition, do not hold it 'dear'.

Scotland is an outside force if you identify as Irish. GFA and all that - please observe!

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Folks there are wee glimmers now and again on this thread of compromise and sense. And then it degenerates again into anti British nonsense from people with huge chips on their shoulders who want nobody’s culture but their own in this new Ireland.

When are you gonna give us a glimmer of what you will compromise on?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When are you gonna give us a glimmer of what you will compromise on?

In the unlikely event that a majority in ni and roi vote for joining the two countries into one I can’t see why I’d be wanting to compromise or what else I would need to compromise.

I realise this doesn’t fit into your plan but I can’t see how we would be anything other than a minority in a strange land and I’d be looking to the big majority to do everything possible to accommodate us.
I am not connected to a band or orange order but I imagine in that scenario people like myself would be drawn to these organisations and they would flourish. I am a ardent NI football supporter and if we lost our team I guess I would enjoy travelling with the England team.
You’ve talked a lot about the rights of people to take action against oppressors. Well that might be a compromise ie I can’t see any way I could justify killing my neighbours to get my country back, unlike republicans in the past. So I’d be completely peaceful but I wouldn’t be part of you jolly Ireland project

[Deleted User]

downcow wrote: »

The initial stuff you posted was about what Uk done around the world
But I’m glad you have clarified. As long as they don’t hurt you it doesn’t matter what they do to anyone else.

Thats completely disengenous,we are talking about the getting rid of the uk from my country here not world affairs from other countries.as a side note,do you think,like the other poster,that those atrocities committed under the union jack are only heresay and allegations?

RobMc59

droidman123 wrote: »

Thats completely disengenous,we are talking about the getting rid of the uk from my country here not world affairs from other countries.as a side note,do you think,like the other poster,that those atrocities committed under the union jack are only heresay and allegations?

You are the one who named other countries so it you who are being disingenuous and how you expect Northern Irish people to want to engage with you is astonishing.

James Brown

RobMc59 wrote: »

You are the one who named other countries so it you who are being disingenuous and how you expect Northern Irish people to want to engage with you is astonishing.

You seem to be under the misconception that everyone in N.I. thinks the same way.
On that note, what's how say China treats Tibet got to do with Unionists or the Orange order marching in the St. Patrick's day parade? Keeping in mind Patrick was Welsh and we embraced his Catholic culture.

RobMc59

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Top of my head.

Irish

The famine.
Bloody Sunday 1
Bloody Sunday 2

No links required.

Others across the world.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_war_crimes

Britain operated concentration camps was news to me I must admit.

I wouldn't argue with you about what Britain did to Ireland but the Wikipedia article states it's neutrality is disputed

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

In the unlikely event that a majority in ni and roi vote for joining the two countries into one I can’t see why I’d be wanting to compromise or what else I would need to compromise.

I realise this doesn’t fit into your plan but I can’t see how we would be anything other than a minority in a strange land and I’d be looking to the big majority to do everything possible to accommodate us.
I am not connected to a band or orange order but I imagine in that scenario people like myself would be drawn to these organisations and they would flourish. I am a ardent NI football supporter and if we lost our team I guess I would enjoy travelling with the England team.
You’ve talked a lot about the rights of people to take action against oppressors. Well that might be a compromise ie I can’t see any way I could justify killing my neighbours to get my country back, unlike republicans in the past. So I’d be completely peaceful but I wouldn’t be part of you jolly Ireland project

So essentially you are gonna do nothing.

Good to know. I think that is what will happen btw. Those unhappiest will refuse to engage with the new arrangement, those who are moderate (the vast majority) will have some regret but get on with it. Life is as good as you want to make it, after all.

BonnieSituation

blanch152 wrote: »

The removal of mandatory Irish in education is an obvious first step to take towards the British minority in a united Ireland.

The poor craturs.

What exactly is so abominable about Gaeilge?

Is there anything you actually like about this State? You're fierce quick to get rid of everything to appease unionists

downcow

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You seem to be under the misconception that everyone in N.I. thinks the same way.
On that note, what's how say China treats Tibet got to do with Unionists or the Orange order marching in the St. Patrick's day parade? Keeping in mind Patrick was Welsh and we embraced his Catholic culture.

Are you smoking something? What you mean Patrick embraced his catholic culture?

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So essentially you are gonna do nothing.

Good to know. I think that is what will happen btw. Those unhappiest will refuse to engage with the new arrangement, those who are moderate (the vast majority) will have some regret but get on with it. Life is as good as you want to make it, after all.

I'm not trying to answer for downcow but you're criticising him about an imaginary referendum and you are able to look in your crystal ball and say with conviction what people will think and do-you couldn’t make it up!

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The poor craturs.

What exactly is so abominable about Gaeilge?

Is there anything you actually like about this State? You're fierce quick to get rid of everything to appease unionists

So what else would you make mandatory in this new ‘free’ Ireland?

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The poor craturs.

What exactly is so abominable about Gaeilges

I don’t have any problem with Gaelic It’s a bit like peanut butter to me. I don’t understand how anyone could be interested in it, but I am happy they enjoy it, it’s just not for me

McMurphy

downcow wrote: »

Are you smoking something? What you mean Patrick embraced his catholic culture?

We embraced his Catholic culture. We being the island of Ireland, which is by and large a Catholic nation.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

So what else would you make mandatory in this new ‘free’ Ireland?

Explain to me what's so scary about "mandatory" Irish?

I mean, are you ever curious about why Down is so-called? Or Carrickfergus? Or Belfast?

Solid English placenames they are.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'm not trying to answer for downcow but you're criticising him about an imaginary referendum and you are able to look in your crystal ball and say with conviction what people will think and do-you couldn’t make it up!

I am not 'criticising' him. i wanted to know what he would propose to compromise on if we voted for a UI.

He won't compromise on anything, he will just ignore the new state.

I have lived among moderate unionsts all my life. I think I have a fair idea how they would react.

McMurphy

downcow wrote: »

I don’t have any problem with Gaelic It’s a bit like peanut butter to me. I don’t understand how anyone could be interested in it, but I am happy they enjoy it, it’s just not for me

I find it baffling that a self described unionist, given that they seem to put so much emphasis on culture, can't understand why some Irish people have an interest in their cultural heritage, and it's ancient language to be completely honest with you.

FrancieBrady

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

We embraced his Catholic culture. We being the island of Ireland, which is by and large a Catholic nation.

Protestants are 'Catholics' too. The correct definition for the main faith on the island is 'Roman' Catholics.

We are Catholic in holding all the Christian faith in its fullness and being part of the one worldwide Church of God.

https://www.ireland.anglican.org/our-faith/what-we-believe

downcow

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

We embraced his Catholic culture. We being the island of Ireland, who are a largely Catholic nation.

Does the capital C suggest you are referring to the Ronan Catholic Church or are you talking about the Christian church?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Protestants are 'Catholics' too. The correct definition for the main faith on the island is 'Roman' Catholics.

https://www.ireland.anglican.org/our-faith/what-we-believe

You beat me to it francie.

James Brown

downcow wrote: »

Are you smoking something? What you mean Patrick embraced his catholic culture?

You read it wrong.

downcow wrote: »

So what else would you make mandatory in this new ‘free’ Ireland?

TBF it seems some will grudgingly accept a united Ireland, but only if all the trappings of Irishness are lost. Should we change the name Ulster to something less Irishy?

James Brown

downcow wrote: »

Does the capital C suggest you are referring to the Ronan Catholic Church or are you talking about the Christian church?

It was a remark regarding taking on other cultures and the St. Patrick's parade. Just pointing out St. Patrick and his religion were an import.
On that bands from the north would be more than welcome. It's all the island of Ireland after all and I believe St. Patrick held seat in Tyrone too.
When you think about it St. Patrick's day celebrates Ireland taking on some of the culture of the U.K.

FrancieBrady

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I find it baffling that a self described unionist, given that they seem to put so much emphasis on culture, can't understand why some Irish people have an interest in their cultural heritage, and it's ancient language to be completely honest with you.

Tbh I would compromise on the language thing as well. Never heard such nonsense about it. Those who instinctively hate it, deserve to miss out on it's beauty.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Explain to me what's so scary about "mandatory" Irish?

I mean, are you ever curious about why Down is so-called? Or Carrickfergus? Or Belfast?

Solid English placenames they are.

I didn't say it was scary.
Can you tell me why it makes you feel a more complete person if i am forced to learn Irish? I genuinely don't understand the need of irish speakers to need others to want to have the same hobby as them

downcow

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I find it baffling that a self described unionist, given that they seem to put so much emphasis on culture, can't understand why some Irish people have an interest in their cultural heritage, and it's ancient language to be completely honest with you.

OK you are right. I accept i was talking nonsense there. I do understand why some people have irish as a hobby. I was clumsy with how i put that. my real issue was why some irish speakers seem to want everyone else to speak it as well