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*New- "Smoking Ban" Fair or Unfair ?..

Wook

damned ! i can understand the second hand smoke and health risks. I can understand the non-smoking in bars and nightclubs , but damned leave me alone when i wanne lit up in my own house or if the workplace has a area for smokers let that be OUR choice. Just now i read in the newspaper that doktors are lobying for banning smoking at work., next will be home and so on .. as i said leave me alone you nanny's !

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super_furry

As long as you don't do it on the bus or train, I'm cool. I can't wait for all the fun and games when they try to introduce this smoking ban into pubs - imagine being the poor barman who has to tell a pub full of pissed up lads that they have to go outside into the pouring rain if they want a smoke.

Sangre

No, get the bouncer usually.

And if there isnt one, it's because they probably dont need one.

AL][EN

I dont smoke myself but i never really saw the need for a smoking bn in pubs!!! i agree with trains and bus alright but
it could get dnagerous if a bouncer tries to tell 3 or 4 lads that are trollied to stop smoking and then try to kick em out!!

Cabaal

Originally posted by Sangre
No, get the bouncer usually.

And if there isn't one, it's because they probably don't need one.

Its as simple as this, if they gardai or a inspector or something calls into the pub and people are smoking, thats it!
The owner will get fined so I think you'll find it'll be enforced.

No bar man wants to get fined, they don't want to loose the money and they don't need the day in court.

The whole work thing is abit iffy but then again i can fully understand where the Doctors are coming from.
Smoking is bad for you, it costs the states loads in health services and they country just doesn't need it.

I suppose the other way we could do things is go very extreme and say this,.

Ok you can smoke, but if you get lung cancer or other problems caused by smoking you can suffer because we're not wasting money trying to make you better when you obviously don't care enough about your yourself to stop.

I remember a story I was told many years ago about a Doctor in Dublin who worked in a ward with cancer patiences, one day he came in and found two patience smoking and he just said "If you don't care, why should I?" or something to that affect.

From a doctors side of things I can fully understand, its self harm and in the end I'd imagine they feel that all they are doing is wasting there time of people.

Wook

ok we do HARM to ourselves, but so does half the world in one way or another.
I think humans just need something.
drink, drugs,smokes,pills,tv,pc geezes name it , we all do something we know we actually 'shouldn't'
And stop crying about the cost of my healthservice, the sooner i die , the faster my pension can be used for other people.

Have you ever met a pure healthfreak ?! are they pleasant or preaching ?

Havelock

the way I see it (as a vemint anti-smoker). If you want to smoke, grand, fine and dandy, do it at home, away from your kids and out doors, away from none smokers. You get no health service for anything is caused by your smoking. A sfor the pension thing, its rather unfortunate that a lot of smokers die in their 30's - 40's, we would get more pension money out of you all if you the decency to die on your 60th birthday. another 20-30 contruption of taxs. Oh and make it a quick death, cause you hospital time costs money.

Wook

i'll think about that next when i see your drunk arse falling around on the streets.

Cabaal

Originally posted by Havelock
Oh and make it a quick death, cause you hospital time costs money.

Exactly what I was going to say, you may die sooner then me but while your dieing your taking up a hospital bed and your wasting the health services resources.
Basically its a needless waste when it can be stopped.

Havelock

Moi, drunk?
I'm afraid my bad habits are of a far worse kind. I'm a chocoholic, I would not expect you to pay for my denist bill.

Wook

Originally posted by Cabaal
Exactly what I was going to say, you may die sooner then me but while your dieing your taking up a hospital bed and your wasting the health services resources.
Basically its a needless waste when it can be stopped.

man if it was up to me , i would pull the plug myself when the time is there. but thats kinda illegal here isn't it ?

Havelock

Just gimmie a call, I can make it look like an accident.

Wook

Originally posted by Havelock
Just gimmie a call, I can make it look like an accident.

i am all for population control,

Victor

Originally posted by Wook
And stop crying about the cost of my healthservice, the sooner i die , the faster my pension can be used for other people.

False logic. The average person spends 18 years growing up, 40-45 years working and 10-15 years in retirement. The smoker would spend 18 years growing up, 20-25 years working and 10-15 years in de facto retirement / ill health. Smokers (and heavy drinkers and the obese and ....) are a net drain on society.

Wook

Originally posted by Victor
False logic. The average person spends 18 years growing up, 40-45 years working and 10-15 years in retirement. The smoker would spend 18 years growing up, 20-25 years working and 10-15 years in de facto retirement / ill health. Smokers (and heavy drinkers and the obese and ....) are a net drain on society.

yes yes , and we all need blond children with blue eyes !

Havelock

Damn you Wook! Beating me to Aryan suggestions, grrr! I shall have your damned eyes for this! *Thoughfully* "Perchance they wouldn't happen to be blue, no?"

Cabaal

Originally posted by Havelock
Just gimmie a call, I can make it look like an accident.

Dam your better then me then because they best I could do is make it look like he did it to himself...

Victor

Originally posted by Wook
yes yes , and we all need blond children with blue eyes !

Really, why would that be? Smoking is a choice (admittedly also an addiction). Why should society pay for your abuses?

BTW, I invoke Godwins Law.

echomadman

we've been through all this already in politics,
I second victors invocation you nazis

Havelock

Whats wrong with being a Nazi toward skangers?

Damn I meant smokers, wrong thread.

Victor

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/1428328?view=Eircomnet

Dubliners given portable ashtrays for butts
From:ireland.com
Tuesday, 9th September, 2003

Dublin City Council have begun a campaign to distribute 20,000 free ashtrays to smokers in a bid to curb cigarette littering on the city's streets.

The "Butts Out" campaign was officially unveiled this morning by the city's Lord Mayor, Mr Royston Brady, who called on smokers in Dublin to "act responsibly".

"Cigarette butts are litter and it is simply unacceptable to throw them on the ground," he said.

Smokers discarding a cigarette butt on the city's streets face a €125 litter fine under the Litter Pollution Act, which can be raised to €1,900 if the offender is successfully prosecuted.

A number of prosecutions are under way, the City Council confirmed this morning.

The portable ashtrays will be sold in retail outlets and newsagents throughout the city, as well as through Dublin City Council's website. The recommended retail price is €2.

Over the next fortnight, 20,000 of the ashtrays, which hold up to six butts apiece, will be handed out free to Dublin smokers. The lightweight containers are designed to be clipped to a belt or carried in a handbag, and are made of the same material as car ashtrays.

The campaign is inspired by a similar initiative in Britain and Australia.

Four million cigarettes are consumed each day by Dublin's 280,000 smokers, and the City Council claims that 32 per cent of litter in the capital is cigarette-related.

Wook

Originally posted by Victor
Really, why would that be? Smoking is a choice (admittedly also an addiction). Why should society pay for your abuses?

BTW, I invoke Godwins Law.

absolutely, it's a choice and then an addiction, but I also would like to have to choice of just killing myself when I feel like it.
so , the state is keeping my sorry ass alive unwillingly , while all I want is to enjoy it and do the things that might be bad for me !

besides, I never want others to suffer from my smoke, as I said I understand that and agree with it, but the thing that annoys me the most is the hypocritical ideology of pointing fingers to others because of their habits even though some like me , will restrict the 'badness' to themselves. if we really would like to see a healthy world why not ban all things that might be bad for you ? start by smoking and end up with chewing gum. ban cars running on petrol, ban mobile masts, ban loud music, ban busy motorways, ban stress at work, ban your granny from visiting on a hangover Sunday...continues...

Wook

and who the fock is 'godwin' :P

Victor

Originally posted by Wook
start by smoking

they are working on it.

Originally posted by Wook
chewing gum

Being taxed disproportionately.

Originally posted by Wook
ban cars running on petrol

Taxed heavily with tighter and tighter emission controls.

Originally posted by Wook
ban mobile masts

Not a demonstrable hazard. However mobile phones are.

Originally posted by Wook
ban loud music

Banned in certain contexts.

Originally posted by Wook
ban busy motorways

Being tolled to discourage use.

Originally posted by Wook
ban stress at work

Employers have a responsibility under health & safety legislation to prevent inappropriate workplace stress.

Originally posted by Wook
ban your granny from visiting on a hangover Sunday...continues...

Unlikely to kill you, you might end up killing her

Originally posted by Wook
and who the fock is 'godwin' :P

Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any _intentional_ triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.

Cabaal

Originally posted by Victor
Dubliners given portable ashtrays for butts
From:ireland.com
Tuesday, 9th September, 2003

Jesus christ!, I thought you just typed that up yourself taking the piss.

Smokers are not going to carrying there ash and stuff around with them, no way in hell.
They'd much preffer tip it into mugs, pints glasses whatever is near at hand.

I have yet to see any smokers I know even empty the ash tray themselfs, its only when its full and they can't tip anything else into it will they empty it.

But for us non-smokers even its its 3 feet away we can smell the swfull stink.

Four million cigarettes are consumed each day by Dublin's 280,000 smokers, and the City Council claims that 32 per cent of litter in the capital is cigarette-related.

As much as this whole idea has a high chance of not working, that info alone is a bloody good enough reason to try!

Victor

Originally posted by Cabaal
Smokers are not going to carrying there ash and stuff around with them, no way in hell. They'd much preffer tip it into mugs, pints glasses whatever is near at hand.

The problem is, come January, smokers will be tipping that ash / butts / packets onto the footpath, instead of nominally into a pub ashtray.

mike65

God smokers! :mad: So flippin self-absorbed, its always me, me ,me! You could just quit and buy loads of stuff with the thousands you'll save every year...

As a matter of interest, did you ever do the maths?

Mike.

Cabaal

Originally posted by Victor
The problem is, come January, smokers will be tipping that ash / butts / packets onto the footpath, instead of nominally into a pub ashtray.

Hmm that brings up another interesting topic, if smoking is banned come Jan and smokers do start tipping outside pubs.

Does it mean that pubs will have to provide ashtrays outside of pubs by law, because of the problem of littering?

Originally posted by mike65
As a matter of interest, did you ever do the maths?

My brother did and he gave up smoking and after one year got a holiday in Canada out of it

Dustaz

FUCK OFF YOU SELF RIGHTEOUS ARSEHOLES

Havelock, use your clean living pollution free lungs to buy a dictionary and spell correctly.

Also, i think youll fine we smokers contribute more than enough in taxes on our smokes to allow us some medical care. Or would you rather that tax went onto your beer, mineral water or ****ing tofu.

seamus

I love when Dusty gets involved.

Originally posted by Dustaz
Also, i think youll fine we smokers contribute more than enough in taxes on our smokes to allow us some medical care. Or would you rather that tax went onto your beer, mineral water or ****ing tofu.

OY! Leave toufu out of this!

I've said it before. Smoking in pubs isn't a huge problem for me. I hate smokers blowing smoke in my face, smoking while I eat, throwing cigarrette butts out the car window and leaving ashtrays lying around, but other than that they can do whatever they want. Kill yourself if you want, see if I care.

Whether tax on cigarettes covers the healthcare is yet to be proven. Anyone got any figures?

Come January, I would encourage pubs to install CCTV at the front door, and organise prosecution for anyone who throws their butts on the ground. Portable ashtrays are a great idea imo.

Plans to class second-hand smoke as an official carcinogen won't help the anti-ban lobby in teh slightest however....

skipn_easy

I can't believe they're seriously considering portable ashtrays. Who would want to carry their ash/butts around with them? They could just put cigarette ash trays on the top of all the rubbish bins, if they had enough bins around.

I agree with the smoking ban in workplaces and restaurants, and dropping cigarette butts on the ground is a horrible thing to do, just as bad as throwing chewing gum on the ground. But leave smokers alone if they don't interfere with anyone else. We all have our vices, and thats what makes us great!