ancapailldorcha wrote: » That's an utter crock. It's down to the DUP. That's like blaming a car dealer for when a driver gets drunk and crashes. It's down to those voted it down plain and simple.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Utter nonsense. Church and state were separated a long time ago in the UK and the DUP insist on keeping them connected in the north. It is rank hypocrisy. And nothing excuses it.
downcow wrote: » Guys you can scream all you like, the facts are clear. The petition of concern is allowing a minority to prevent the majority from giving rights to another minority. Fact
FrancieBrady wrote: » That doesn't excuse anybody. And it is hell rub it up them, because ultimately it has all spectacularly backfired on them and they have profoundly demonstrated to northern Irish Unionism just what is thought of their loyalty in Westminster and among the wider UK populace - which is not very much. Shafted by May a couple of days after spouting about the importance of the Union and shafted by the ERG, their new bedfellows and now the poll which shows what the UK electorate thinks. The rest of us knew what the UK thought instinctively.
downcow wrote: » Francie I am not being drawn into a brexit discussion but have a wee look back a few posts at the poll that says twice as many brits want us to stay as go. That doesn’t sound to me what you describe. And as for coming back to bite I think that’s demonstrated by the shimmers supporting gfa and it being the very thing that’s scuppering their Irish language aspirations.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » In my experience, your average Englishman/woman is barely aware of the Union. They're often keen to ask me questions about it but their knowledge of the subject is utterly dire. We've gone from that state of affairs to one where the DUP have fundamentally undermined the Union by presenting Ulster Unionism as being thoroughly toxic, bigoted and above compromise. Now we've gone from apathy and indifference to revulsion towards the DUP and Ulster Unionism. Anyone from a relatively soft Brexiter to a rabid Remainer now has great reason to despise the DUP and question the practicality and utility of the Union. Regardless of whether we actually leave the EU or not, expect a lot of troubling questions for Ulster Unionists from all sides. Jeremy Corbyn is likely to be warming towards a Border Poll while the fanatical Brexiters will ditch NI once they find a suitable pretense if the DUP continue to get in the way. The way to preserve the Union was staying in but the DUP's congenital hatred and bigotry got in the way of any sort of rational debate. As a moderate Unionist myself, even I find myself sympathising with the Republican side here. NI voted remain and while the UK as a whole did vote to leave, no attempt at compromise has been made and the DUP has ignored the 55% of NI voters. Probably most of the 45% as well to be honest. "Ulster says no" is a mantra the English might finally be ready to do away with.
RobMc59 wrote: » I'm still a bit confused about people from Ireland still wanting to be part of the UK or apparently feeling more of an affiliation with the UK-I'm not saying that to criticise as the town in Donegal my family are from has a pipe band which I've seen marching with orange banners and sashes-does this ever cause friction?
downcow wrote: » No significant friction as I understand. My family is also from Donegal There is a theory in peace work that when a minority is very small then the majority don’t see them as any threat and even offer them some patronising crumbs of importance/protection/etc. I think the Donegal folk are very accommodating to their Orange neighbours.
FrancieBrady wrote: » There is also the very important fact that the Orange parade is non triumphalist nor expresses any bigotry in Donegal. Nobody has an issue with it when it behaves. It should be a lesson for the OO and Unionism.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » Very true. The 12th of July Parade at Rossnowlagh always felt more like a day out for the family and putting on your best clothes and banners than anything remotely political.
downcow wrote: » Francie I live in a village with the most benign lodge and band you could ever imagine. Indeed for decades they have been running cross community events to raise money for catholic neighbours in distress. They have been prevented for parading with religious music only. So don’t anyone be fooled that the issue around parading is about behaviour. Of course there are isolated evedence of bands behaving disgracefully and blatantly sectarian. But I my village the issue is that the shinners don’t want a prod about the place.
FrancieBrady wrote: » You would have to give more detail. The parades commission usually act if there is a perceived problem. 'Not having a prod about the place' is not grounds.
downcow wrote: » It is absolutely grounds. Here is detail on another local town. Downpatrick. The parade route wishes to skirt the edge of town on a main road to get access to the towns only loyalist estate. The houses on route were polled and only 3 had any problem whatsoever with parade passing. SDLP made a promise 25 years ago to the townspeople that no prod band would ever enter the town. The parades commission year after year bar the parade. Indeed the band have offered to simply parade within the loyalist estate and the answer is still no. So each year the parade to within half a mile of town to turn around and parade away again. Sad situation
FrancieBrady wrote: » I just read the Parades Commission report there and as suspected they have 'grounds' as they base their findings on the history of the behaviour on this parade and the likelihood of increasing tensions.
downcow wrote: » Francie I live in a village with the most benign lodge and band you could ever imagine. Indeed for decades they have been running cross community events to raise money for catholic neighbours in distress. They have been prevented for parading with religious music only. So don’t anyone be fooled that the issue around parading is about behaviour. Of course there are isolated evedence of bands behaving disgracefully and blatantly sectarian. But In my village the issue is that the shinners don’t want a prod about the place.
votecounts wrote: » Normal people would only parade where they were wanted and not to annoy catholics with their songs about king billy.
downcow wrote: » Oh dear oh dear that is so 1980s
Johnny Dogs wrote: » How benign? Like, does the lodge break orange order protocol and permit its members to marry people from Roman Catholic backgrounds?
votecounts wrote: » Still true though. You only see the side you wanted and not the side that had people locked in their homes for days because these people wanted to march "the queens highway"
downcow wrote: » I haven’t looked it up but any history was in the 1980s and when the parade went through the town centre. The parade voluntarily offered to go nowhere near the town and bar any bands that may have history of issues. What may increase the tension is having s prod about the place
The Commission has cause to believe that should the parade process the entirety of it's notified route there will be adverse effects on community relations and a potential for public disorder.
downcow wrote: » What planet are you on. People locked in their homes for days???
FrancieBrady wrote: » The Commission is to be congratulated imo.
downcow wrote: » Yes, if I was of your opinion then I would congratulate them as well
votecounts wrote: » Do you not remember Drumcee? Ignorance is bliss
