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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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timmyjimmy

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

The only thing that I can think of is that they're just using the sustainable transport grants as resurfacing funds. Same thing out in Wilton, it's another dog's dinner, but the road is smooth.

This type of thinking is alien to them. I've been variously told by some of the design teams: "hopefully nobody will use it" in reference to bad scheme about to break ground soon..."what about the people driving?" in reference to the narrowing of the footpaths to widen the traffic lanes... and "Well I certainly wouldn't cycle it" in reference to another scheme about to start. These were by the people tasked with designs themselves.

It's cars or nothing, at the moment.

I manage (just about) to cycle to work sometimes but you really are taking your life into your hands cycling along the Lower Glanmire rd in the morning. A cycle bus like they do with the kids in Galway might be an idea to encourage more people to cycle to Little Island.

snotboogie

21 weeks since An Taisce’s appeal to ABP regarding The Prism. I think they said 18 weeks for a decision originally, I wonder when we’ll see one

who_me

snotboogie wrote: »

21 weeks since An Taisce’s appeal to ABP regarding The Prism. I think they said 18 weeks for a decision originally, I wonder when we’ll see one

If it's approved (big IF), it'll be interesting to see if/when construction starts. IMO we're seeing a big mix in approaches, from the "almost immediate" (Penrose Dock, Horgan's Quay etc.) to the "approved then disappear into the netherworld" (Mahon Point tower, Sullivan's Quay hotel etc.)

Since this is - IIRC - the same developer as the Custom House quay tower, it'd give a good indication of the likely progress of that development too.

Rhys Essien

who_me wrote: »

If it's approved (big IF), it'll be interesting to see if/when construction starts. IMO we're seeing a big mix in approaches, from the "almost immediate" (Penrose Dock, Horgan's Quay etc.) to the "approved then disappear into the netherworld" (Mahon Point tower, Sullivan's Quay hotel etc.)

Since this is - IIRC - the same developer as the Custom House quay tower, it'd give a good indication of the likely progress of that development too.

The developers were in town a few weeks back so hopefully we’ll hear a bit of positive news soon.

marno21

Rhys Essien wrote: »

The developers were in town a few weeks back so hopefully we’ll hear a bit of positive news soon.

Their plan to redevelop a hotel in their hometown got rejected by ABP.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/plans-to-redevelop-landmark-kerry-hotel-deemed-excessive-907776.html

If this gets blocked it'll be quite disappointing for them.

snotboogie

who_me wrote: »

If it's approved (big IF), it'll be interesting to see if/when construction starts. IMO we're seeing a big mix in approaches, from the "almost immediate" (Penrose Dock, Horgan's Quay etc.) to the "approved then disappear into the netherworld" (Mahon Point tower, Sullivan's Quay hotel etc.)

Since this is - IIRC - the same developer as the Custom House quay tower, it'd give a good indication of the likely progress of that development too.

They were saying a Q1 2019 start if they got no appeals in November. So about a 5 month turnaround.

We are at 6 months since the Mahon Tower was approved. I remember right after a PROC poster said that there would be no way it would start before 2020.

In Cork if BAM, JCD, OCP or a public body are not involved it’s a very bad sign; Camden Quay, Trinity Quarter, Merchants Quay, The M, Wilton SC, Penny’s, the Square Deal and about 5 more major student apartments serve as an example. Post recession, I think the only project which has started without them is the South Mall Maldron.

rebs23

snotboogie wrote: »

In Cork if BAM, JCD, OCP or a public body are not involved it’s a very bad sign; Camden Quay, Trinity Quarter, Merchants Quay, The M, Wilton SC, Penny’s, the Square Deal and about 5 more major student apartments serve as an example. Post recession, I think the only project which has started without them is the South Mall Maldron.

That just shows the importance of local developers who have been the backbone of development in Cork for decades.

who_me

snotboogie wrote: »

In Cork if BAM, JCD, OCP or a public body are not involved it’s a very bad sign; Camden Quay, Trinity Quarter, Merchants Quay, The M, Wilton SC, Penny’s, the Square Deal and about 5 more major student apartments serve as an example. Post recession, I think the only project which has started without them is the South Mall Maldron.

I've been very critical of BAM (for obvious reasons), but to their credit the Dean hotel is shooting up at an incredible pace, and it took very little time to pretty much level the rest of the HQ site. Fair play to them.

Markcheese

who_me wrote: »

I've been very critical of BAM (for obvious reasons), but to their credit the Dean hotel is shooting up at an incredible pace, and it took very little time to pretty much level the rest of the HQ site. Fair play to them.

Is bam the main contractor, or developer and builder on the hotel?

snotboogie

Markcheese wrote: »

Is bam the main contractor, or developer and builder on the hotel?

Its a joint development between BAM and Clarendon, with BAM seeming to be the main contractors and builders on site. Of the 9 cranes in Cork, 5 are BAM.

opus

who_me wrote: »

I look at that and all I can see is - wouldn't that make a spectacular outdoor eating/drinking venue. The venue for the new Sextant? :P

Any idea what was on that site previously?

So my guess is that this has been turned into a carpark to avoid the derelict site tax mentioned in today's Echo.

Kilboor

Love Cork City but definitely need to brighten up your river side buildings and areas more.

who_me

Kilboor wrote: »

Love Cork City but definitely need to brighten up your river side buildings and areas more.

Amen. The quay-sides themselves need a lot of TLC too; they're in a horrible state, and the Patrick's Bridge renovations show just how good they could look.

Looking at the quay-side opposite my place: the bottom several feet of the quay walls are several feet of sea-weed. Above that, a bit of green algae(?). Then above the water line, the walls are black, covering both the stone and the slapped-on concrete that was clumsily added at some point, then some fairly naff looking railings. Oh, and not to forget the ugly pipes and cables which have been bolted on, and - in the case of the cables - come loose and are hanging down into the river.

It'd be great if they could even renovate one quay (wall, railing, and path) per year.

Kilboor

who_me wrote: »

Amen. The quay-sides themselves need a lot of TLC too; they're in a horrible state, and the Patrick's Bridge renovations show just how good they could look.

Looking at the quay-side opposite my place: the bottom several feet of the quay walls are several feet of sea-weed. Above that, a bit of green algae(?). Then above the water line, the walls are black, covering both the stone and the slapped-on concrete that was clumsily added at some point, then some fairly naff looking railings. Oh, and not to forget the ugly pipes and cables which have been bolted on, and - in the case of the cables - come loose and are hanging down into the river.

It'd be great if they could even renovate one quay (wall, railing, and path) per year.

Exactly this! I'm a Limerick man so a little biased on nice rivers, even Limerick turns its back on the river but in the areas that are nice like the Curragower falls, or the two renovated quays it really really adds a lot to the city and are nice refreshing wide open areas to relax, walk the dog, run etc. Didn't find anything like this in Cork.

Literally the only thing I'd say missing from Cork, great city apart from that! (Oh I could complain about traffic and streets but it's fine I prefer walking there anyway)

Apogee

Penrose Dock with on-going hotel construction in background.

credit:https://twitter.com/DylanGLC/status/1113166051716595714

Nigel Fairservice

Kilboor wrote: »

Love Cork City but definitely need to brighten up your river side buildings and areas more.

I was in Ljubljana a while ago and I walked a good chunk of the the river's course through the city. It was an absolute pleasure. In quieter areas of the city there were lovely embankments with weeping willows dangling into the water. In the city centre itself there were lovely restaurants, coffee shops and bars right on the river. What struck me most was there was no vehicular traffic on the quayside. All the river frontage was given over to pedestrians. In Cork (and all Irish cities I think) we are very detached from our rivers and do not really make use of them. My desk at work overlooks the river and there's no way I'd take a lunch time stroll along it, in the city centre at least. It's uninviting and not pretty to look at. As someone else mentioned the quayside walls are not in great condition, the railings are awful etc. It would be great if the river/quays could be made more relevant to people in the city centre like they have managed to do in Ljubljana.

mrpdap

who_me wrote: »

Amen. The quay-sides themselves need a lot of TLC too; they're in a horrible state, and the Patrick's Bridge renovations show just how good they could look.

Looking at the quay-side opposite my place: the bottom several feet of the quay walls are several feet of sea-weed. Above that, a bit of green algae(?). Then above the water line, the walls are black, covering both the stone and the slapped-on concrete that was clumsily added at some point, then some fairly naff looking railings. Oh, and not to forget the ugly pipes and cables which have been bolted on, and - in the case of the cables - come loose and are hanging down into the river.

It'd be great if they could even renovate one quay (wall, railing, and path) per year.

So what do you think of the OPW/CCC plans to replace the existing quay walls with higher concrete ones to prevent flooding?

Markcheese

mrpdap wrote: »

So what do you think of the OPW/CCC plans to replace the existing quay walls with higher concrete ones to prevent flooding?

And all for a bargain price, ( I wonder what the excuse will be, and the revised costings for the whole scheme, when they blow the budget sky high on Morrison Island...

CHealy

I would say Cork City has never connected with its river, despite it being a unique feature of the city with the way it splits creating a mini Manhattan-like island.

[Deleted User]

CHealy wrote: »

I would say Cork City has never connected with its river, despite it being a unique feature of the city with the way it splits creating a mini Manhattan-like island.

Sewage. Only now is the river/harbour recovering and, unfortunately, at times there is still smell and algal bloom due to over abundance of fertiliser running into the river.

Was the riverbed ever dredged after the main draining to clean up the sludge?

who_me

Kilboor wrote: »

Exactly this! I'm a Limerick man so a little biased on nice rivers, even Limerick turns its back on the river but in the areas that are nice like the Curragower falls, or the two renovated quays it really really adds a lot to the city and are nice refreshing wide open areas to relax, walk the dog, run etc. Didn't find anything like this in Cork.

Literally the only thing I'd say missing from Cork, great city apart from that! (Oh I could complain about traffic and streets but it's fine I prefer walking there anyway)

There are some very nice walkways, and grassy riverside banks, but not central at all.

Notably - Fitzgerald Park and the Lee Fields (it's a pity there isn't a pedestrian bridge at the end of the Lee Fields so you could return on the far bank). And the Marina is great, and parts of the Mahon ring. But the city-centre riverside areas are generally poor.

Shedite27

CHealy wrote: »

I would say Cork City has never connected with its river, despite it being a unique feature of the city with the way it splits creating a mini Manhattan-like island.

Shure haven't we covered most of it. The most striking aspect of it in the city is the steps up the offices on the Mall.

The walk from Blackrock castle around to Mahon Point really shows what's possible if you had the space/desire

Kilboor

who_me wrote: »

There are some very nice walkways, and grassy riverside banks, but not central at all.

Notably - Fitzgerald Park and the Lee Fields (it's a pity there isn't a pedestrian bridge at the end of the Lee Fields so you could return on the far bank). And the Marina is great, and parts of the Mahon ring. But the city-centre riverside areas are generally poor.

Forgot about the Lee fields, lovely spot as is Fitzgerald Park which I lived across from

I did mean more in the city centre though!

CHealy

Shedite27 wrote: »

Shure haven't we covered most of it. The most striking aspect of it in the city is the steps up the offices on the Mall.

I know that it still runs under the Grand Parade, it was exposed a few years back during works. But we currently have plenty to work with and not a bit has been done with it.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

There's definitely a lot more to be done around the riverside - with a bit of ambition and drive. Nice plants, flowerboxes maybe too.

Something the Council sadly lacks.

mrpdap

Markcheese wrote: »

And all for a bargain price, ( I wonder what the excuse will be, and the revised costings for the whole scheme, when they blow the budget sky high on Morrison Island...

The Walls are scheduled to take at least ten years so the budget will be well and truly blown. Never mind the disruption it would cause to the city.
Maybe they will see sense and go for the tidal barrier.

AugustusMinimus

Tidal barrier is an absolute no brainier.

If the tidal barrier has the ability to keep water levels at even mid tide, then it is basically impossible for cork city to flood given that the tide affects all areas in the city centre.

The walls scheme is madness.

Wyldwood

Passed by Clonlara in Kerry Pike last night and there were 4 or 5 cars queueing for a new phase that's being launched on Saturday. Awful situation where people have to spend 2 days in a car to buy a house.

Looks like a nice development though.

snotboogie

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Tidal barrier is an absolute no brainier.

If the tidal barrier has the ability to keep water levels at even mid tide, then it is basically impossible for cork city to flood given that the tide affects all areas in the city centre.

The walls scheme is madness.

There was a blog which outlined the negatives of a tidal barrier and it was far from a no brainer. I think the author even posted on this forum. I am no expert on the topic so can’t give an informed opinion but I have very little time for the “save Cork City” crowd who are almost religious in their one sided fervor. They were posting on twitter during the week about Moore’s hotel being like something you’d see on the canal banks of Amsterdam and that it was a Cork Heritage which cannot be knocked. Crazy stuff

namloc1980

The quaysides are poor alright but wasn't there major uproar last year from the usual suspects with the proposal to remove some parking from Morrison's Quay and make it more pedestrian friendly? Terrible mindset altogether.