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Who wrote the Bible then?

Wtf ?

They could hardly whip out a biro and quote JC word for word could they ? It was hammers,chisels and a nice flat bit of stone back then so shorthand was out of the question too. I think I have been sold a pup all along.....?

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xi5yvm0owc1s2b

_Brian wrote: »

It’s not a factual history text.

It's not, and wasn't seen so for centuries, because the Catholic Church was seen as the final authority on issues of religion and morality, not the Bible itself. The tradition of biblical literalism emerged after the Reformation, and now it's commonplace among Christian fundamentalists to claim that if it's in the Bible, it must be true.

uck51js9zml2yt

Jolene Teeny Gum wrote: »

Probably not. The first gospel (Mark's) was written an estimated 40 years after the death of Jesus, and the last (John's) about 60 to 70 years after. It's generally accepted that the authors relied for their sources on stories that had been passed down orally about Jesus, rather than their own personal experience.

MAtthew, John and possibly mark ( for parts) were eyewitnesses.
Luke spoke to eyewitnesses.

James and jude(the brothers of Jesus wrote a letter each. Peter(an eyewitness) wrote 2 letters. Paul wrote most of the rest. Hebrews we was anonymous but accepted as part of the new testament.
The Old testament was written by an Egyptian prince(former slave). Shepherd's, royal advisors and a host of others.

_Brian

Messiah Cold Form wrote: »

MAtthew, John and possibly mark ( for parts) were eyewitnesses.
Luke spoke to eyewitnesses.

James and jude(the brothers of Jesus wrote a letter each. Peter(an eyewitness) wrote 2 letters. Paul wrote most of the rest. Hebrews we was anonymous but accepted as part of the new testament.
The Old testament was written by an Egyptian prince(former slave). Shepherd's, royal advisors and a host of others.

Eyewitnesses to what ?
A person who could capture an audience and recant fables to put across a point on morality. I don’t think there were any eyewitness to water into wine etc etc.

And I’m not just religion bashing.
I think religion has an overall positive influence on society providing it’s not let run wild with power and ruin people’s lives.

Many people have poor parenting skills and religion is a tool of sorts to help install at least some moral guidance in children.

begbysback

mariaalice wrote: »

The silk road by Peter Frankopan has a really fascinating bit about the spread of Christianity and how images of floods, sacrifice, plagues of the locus, etc all became common imagery in the culture of Europe because of the spread of Christianity even though they were not common occurrences in Northern Europe.

Yea, probably the most logical interpretation on the origination of religion, also similar explanation in another book, think it might the rational optimist

Gwynplaine

It's about as real as a Roald Dahl book.

smilerf

A load of monks off their head on drugs

lawred2

smilerf wrote: »

A load of monks off their head on drugs

much more sinister than that

there's money in fairy tales and crowd control

Feisar

To quote 50, "Many, many, many, many men"

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Messiah Cold Form wrote: »

MAtthew, John and possibly mark ( for parts) were eyewitnesses.

And what's your evidence for that claim?

valoren

smilerf wrote: »

A load of monks off their head on drugs

It's like the antiquity version of modern pot heads talking ****e to each other and one of them saying;

"Brethren, we shouldst writeth this down!"

decky1

think it was written on the basis of 'We'll have none of that here'

Agricola

In 2019, Hollywood studios make $100m blockbusters depicting superheroes doing all kinds of miraculous stuff in order to amaze the masses.....

In 119AD, peasants in the middle east wrote about superheroes doing all kinds of miraculous stuff to amaze the masses.....

Franz Von Peppercorn

Wtf ? wrote: »

They could hardly whip out a biro and quote JC word for word could they ? It was hammers,chisels and a nice flat bit of stone back then so shorthand was out of the question too. I think I have been sold a pup all along.....?

1) It wasn't hammers and chisels. This was all within the literate historical age. The Roman era. Jews were literate, of course, before the Roman era.

2) Nobody really says that the writers of the gospels were eye witnesses anymore, if they ever did.

Avatar MIA

Gwynplaine wrote: »

It's about as real as a Roald Dahl book.

His autobiographies :eek:

lawred2

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

1) It wasn't hammers and chisels. This was all within the literate historical age. The Roman era. Jews were literate, of course, before the Roman era.

2) Nobody really says that the writers of the gospels were eye witnesses anymore, if they ever did.

plus how can you be an eye witness of a lot of events that didn't happen

mobileforest

Wtf ? wrote: »

They could hardly whip out a biro and quote JC word for word could they ? It was hammers,chisels and a nice flat bit of stone back then so shorthand was out of the question too. I think I have been sold a pup all along.....?

hammers,chisels and a nice flat bit of stone? Jesus lived in the Roman Empire not the age of the flintstones. They had more modern methods of recoding than that. But yeah history, even recent history, isn’t always reliable and therefore some inaccuracies will occur. Personally I find it weird that often the people who question the new testament (which is based on thousands of source material matching up) are often the same who quote Ancient Greek philosophers, many of whos works are based on as few as a dozen or less source materials.

Dravokivich

_Brian wrote: »

Eyewitnesses to what ?
A person who could capture an audience and recant fables to put across a point on morality. I don’t think there were any eyewitness to water into wine etc etc.

And I’m not just religion bashing.
I think religion has an overall positive influence on society providing it’s not let run wild with power and ruin people’s lives.

Many people have poor parenting skills and religion is a tool of sorts to help install at least some moral guidance in children.

I don't know why you expect religion is a big part of a positive contribution to society. I'd argue it has no impact on whether society succeeds or fails. Those folks that smashed up lidl last year, would more than likely identify as catholic.

Tacklebox

lawred2 wrote: »

much more sinister than that

there's money in fairy tales and crowd control

Well thank **** the hipster movement and their chemically enhanced self castration via soya.. didn't take over FFS

nozzferrahhtoo

lawred2 wrote: »

plus how can you be an eye witness of a lot of events that didn't happen

The same reason many more people than is physically possible attended a certain Rory Gallagher gig I guess. People can be led to claim they witnessed things they did not actually witness. Some of them may even be led to believe they did witness it when they did not.

The "Indian rope trick" is a good test of this. People attest to it being amazing despite us having no knowledge that it A) was ever performed ever or

actually exists.

It is funny though how eye witness testimony works in religion. You have any number of contemporaneous eye witnesses to the miracles performed by Sathya Sai Baba and pretty much everyone in Ireland knows he is a fraud anyway and do not buy the accounts when they hear them.

But similar accounts in the distant past in amongst a barely literate bronze aged peasantry.... who are all now long dead and can not actually be met and interviewed......... and suddenly they attain all manner of credibility.

How does that work exactly, I wonder.

Grayson

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

2) Nobody really says that the writers of the gospels were eye witnesses anymore, if they ever did.

There are some.

There's a great channel I watch on youtube called Religion for Breakfast

I'd recommend that anyone with a passing interest in christianity and western religions should watch it

uck51js9zml2yt

Jolene Teeny Gum wrote: »

And what's your evidence for that claim?

Read the gospels and figure it out!

Man Vs ManUre

I always assumed Stephen Hawkins wrote it.

Pherekydes

Messiah Cold Form wrote: »

MAtthew...were eyewitnesses.

Matthew 9:9 is one of my favourite verses. Jesus meets Matthew in it.

Would it make you wonder how he witnessed anything that happened in chapters 1-9:8?

Wibbs

That's the other problem, the names. In that region of the world they weren't so inventive with naming, so if you stood in a Jerusalem street in the first century and hollered out Matthew or Yeshua(Jesus), or Mary, a helluva lot of heads would turn around. IIRC there's three "Marys" in the New Testament.

rafatoni

A lot of people on boards would believe McGregor wrote the bible if he said he did :rolleyes:

Hobosan

lawred2 wrote: »

there's money in fairy tales

There's fairy tales in money too...

Hobosan

topper75 wrote: »

Yes absolutely loved, loved, loved the bible.
Convinced it contained a secret code.

One of the greatest known human minds but there you go.

Divil for the alchemy too.

The goals of alchemists were met centuries later. Sure, it was an inexact science at the time, but the ideas and the equipment produced in the pursuit were fairly accurate in hindsight.

Obviously some of the ideas in alchemy were a dead end but overall it proved a worthwhile endeavour.

Avatar MIA

Hobosan wrote: »

The goals of alchemists were met centuries later.

Bitcoin? Turning smoke and mirrors into gold.

But, they're no way close to manufacturing gold from another element or creating the 'philosophers stone'.

smilerf

rafatoni wrote: »

A lot of people on boards would believe McGregor wrote the bible if he said he did :rolleyes:

He spouts some ****e but the Bible just about beats him in the spouting ****e department

Franz Von Peppercorn

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Bitcoin? Turning smoke and mirrors into gold.

But, they're no way close to manufacturing gold from another element or creating the 'philosophers stone'.

Alchemy led to chemistry.

We can convert elements these days in nuclear reactions.