cojomo2 wrote: » https://news.escoot.ie/stopped-by-garda-on-my-m365/ Garda stops M365 and acknowledges its not an MPV after closer inspection.
beauf wrote: » Ah yeah one Garda says no, another Garda says yes. So which one is right. The one that gives the answer you want. Everyones happy. Until you meet the other Garda. These scooters and skateboards have been out of a couple of years now. How on earth can it take so long to get some legislation around them. It reminds of the legislation of cycle lanes being mandatory change, which almost soon as it was enacted it was removed. Because it was stupid. But it took about 3yrs of bithering around.
beauf wrote: » You mean the way a car need you to push the accelerator to get a car moving, or put it into gear using a clutch. It won't move on its own. So its not a MPV either. The engine will stop if it has stop start. Same with electric cars. Same with petrol powered bicycles or non Pedelac eBikes. Only scooters are different. Makes perfect sense....not.
...Ghost... wrote: » ... Are you seriously comparing the two? Talk about apples and cucumbers. ....there is no comparison.
beauf wrote: » The fantasy rule you made up was that the vehicle won't move off without human intervention. Don't blame me when its nonsense.
...Ghost... wrote: » No. Cars can also be started with a push, but unless there is a mechanical fault, the engine keeps running and the car can move off again under the power of the engine alone. This is not the case with the majority of e-scooters. Once you come to a stop, you need to manually push off before the motor will engage. If you were able to get moving again after coming to a stop, it would be an mpv under the current definition.
Johnboy1951 wrote: » Is that really made clear in the legislation? I realise that is your opinion of the situation, but is it clear in legislation? I believe not ....... in which case legislative change is needed to clarify it, if that is the desired result. All vehicles that required manual intervention to move off would have to be excluded. EDIT: The amount of manual intervention would also need to be defined. Such as intervention not required during normal operation of the vehicle when moving (would eliminate accel & brake use for instance).
beauf wrote: » My interpretation is it allows a death chariot. I have to use a finger to start it. Then it runs for 100k at 50kph. But its ok because it won't start on it own.
‘ pedal cycle ’ means— (i) a bicycle or tricycle which is intended or adapted for propulsion solely by the physical exertions of a person or persons seated thereon, or (ii) a pedelec, but does not include a moped or a scooter; ‘ pedelec ’ means a bicycle or tricycle which is equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0.25 kilowatts, of which output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 kilometres per hour, or sooner if the cyclist stops pedalling;
cojomo2 wrote: » ... Do you have to physically propel this death chariot yourself ( by cycling/scooting/pushing it) for some distance before the motor can be engaged?
ED E wrote: » How many times does this need to be said....
beauf wrote: » Maybe the EU will come up a law and we'll just copy it. I've noticed that most of the Scooters I've seen are always being overtaken by cyclists. They seems to be because the slow down a lot on hills gradients and the they can't handle a poor surface as well as a bicycle. I assume at some point well start to see improved scooters that might have better tyres and more torque. Interesting the new m365 model they have made it harder to remove the limiter. Which I assume it's a means of helping legislation to define them. Thus gain mass acceptance. Despite all my messing I think they are great. Can't wait to see how they develop.
beauf wrote: » How far do I have to push to qualify. 1cm or 50m.
beauf wrote: » Thats 12-14 mph (20-22 kmh) Which is slower than someone on a regular bicycle. On a electric bicycle you will be faster. Even allowing for traffic, and lights etc.
ED E wrote: » How many times does this need to be said.THE ASSISTED CLAUSE APPLIES ONLY TO BICYCLES For all other types of vehicle it doesnt matter what it does once it has a motor its an MPV. This push to start discussion is utter bullsh1t.
beauf wrote: » Be interesting to see how the US deals with them. They have loads of scooter sharing schemes and are having some issues.
cojomo2 wrote: » From RSA
cojomo2 wrote: » From RSA What is the law on e-bikes / pedelecs / battery powered scooters? Regardless of the type of bike, the rule is as follows: If it can be powered by mechanical or electrical power alone (i.e. it can go without you pedalling or scooting it) then it is considered to be a mechanically propelled vehicle (MPV) Battery powered scooters are regarded as a "type of bike" going by above.
...Ghost... wrote: » The problems are more-so with users discarding them all over the place when finished with them. They should have dedicated spots to leave them when finished, similar to bicycle rentals.
rubadub wrote: » My take on this was that, yes, the scooters could be considered similar to ebikes, BUT that would mean that power would only kick in and assist you when somebody scoots, i.e. it would have to have a sensor in it like the pedelecs to recognise that somebody is pushing it with their foot and give assistance, and instantly stop afterwards -just like an ebike does. I was theorising that the scooter could be fitted with some sort of foot pedal that you would actively have to press down, like a bike pedal, to be actively applying power. Otherwise people could get an ebike with a throttle and once going needs not pedalling, but which requires a push to start, and then if questioned they could claim it is a scooter.
