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Contract rearing

Brown Podzol

Keepgrowing wrote: »

As I’ve said here before, there was and is no fodder crisis. Farm organisations cry out and like sheep all follow suit. Imported forage last spring fed the national herd for 10 hours. Ifa cutting the airports for silage pure photo op.

I was accused on this thread of arrogance for posting that silage can be bought for less than cost of production. That was the case, is the case and will continue to be the case while we as farmers get paid to be gardeners ie. keep the place looking well to get our BPS.

We have 40% of next winters feedbought at 90% of the cost of production. There are fields of kale and other catch crops gone to seed. Fields of Westerwoulds being mown, bales and stacked on headlands with no buyers to get in grain crops.

Hardly remotely close to a crisis. A little less hysteria and following the crowd is called for.

The one exception is straw was expensive this year but has returned to more realistic price of late. Guys out for a killing with straw and silage not in as strong a position as they thought. Those who sold throughout winter, much cuter.

Every extra acre I farm that doesn’t allow me to milk an extra cow is costing me money. I can get my heifers contract reared cheaper than I can rear them and I can buy silage cheaper than I can grow it myself.

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Keepgrowing

Brown Podzol wrote: »

Every extra acre I farm that doesn’t allow me to milk an extra cow is costing me money. I can get my heifers contract reared cheaper than I can rear them and I can buy silage cheaper than I can grow it myself.

You’re an arrogant fecker all together;)

lab man

Keepgrowing wrote:

Youâ€™re an arrogant fecker all together

Fact, and will be found out

wrangler

Keepgrowing wrote: »

You’re an arrogant fecker all together;)

I forecast on here years ago that contract rearing was going to be another race to the bottom for farmers.........and selling silage is another lossmaker

freedominacup

wrangler wrote: »

I forecast on here years ago that contract rearing was going to be another race to the bottom for farmers.........and selling silage is another lossmaker

It doesn't matter what the enterprise is if farmers see another farmer making a return at something they will immediately copycat other than the fact that they will either overpay for the inputs or sell the output at a reduced price. Every time, always.

Keepgrowing

freedominacup wrote: »

It doesn't matter what the enterprise is if farmers see another farmer making a return at something they will immediately copycat other than the fact that they will either overpay for the inputs or sell the output at a reduced price. Every time, always.

Got it in one

yewtree

Brown Podzol wrote: »

Every extra acre I farm that doesn’t allow me to milk an extra cow is costing me money. I can get my heifers contract reared cheaper than I can rear them and I can buy silage cheaper than I can grow it myself.

+1
renting ground away from main block to rear heifers is a total waste of time, don't think I will ever rear my heifers again.

Keepgrowing

yewtree wrote: »

+1
renting ground away from main block to rear heifers is a total waste of time, don't think I will ever rear my heifers again.

Not entirely sure about that. From a stand alone purely economic POV you are indeed correct. We on the other hand have leased ground for silage and heifers thus dropping our total SR.

Our reasoning for this is in order to future proof our business. My reading of every utterance of every commentator and politician is that SR will be the new quota. I could be misreading the situation completely

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

I forecast on here years ago that contract rearing was going to be another race to the bottom for farmers.........and selling silage is another lossmaker

I would not be of that opinion of heifer rearing. First off when it started Teagasc was quoting figures of about 110-120c/day. Some Dory farmers were of the opinion it should be arounf or sub an euro a day. I costed it on this forum at 140-160c/day. At present is it around the 140c/day??. Even at that I would not heifer rear for a dairy farmer for much less than 2 euro/day.

The reason it will turn into a specialist business are first not every farmer will have the skill set to get the live weight gain to get heifers to where they can calf down at 22-24 months. Most dairy farmers want there stock to be the only stock on the farm so you need exact matches. You end up with a stocking autumn loaded system rather than a spring loaded system as in with beef at present. With dairy farmers facing there cows being given a higher nitrates weighting and derogation's limits being reduced 250 to 220kgs/HA this will increase demand. While lads might work for nothing for themselves they will not for dairy farmers. Leasing by dairy farmers will take land out of the system.

On the fodder crisis some people misunderstand the nature of it. First off it is a one in five or six year crisis. However some lads have a fodder crisis every year. They do not know how much silage and fodder they need or run out every spring. Dairy farmers over the last 4-5 years took out the extra capacity that was there. there a few issue being dependent on bought in silage. The quality is generally not as good as what you would make yourself. When you include transport ( now heading for 10/bale) buying in silage is uneconomic when a crisis happen's. There are other solutions but lads refuse to look at these solutions such as rations or straights, reducing stocking rates etc.

IF this had been a normal winter would we have survive yes we would it would have cost but we would have got through it. It all about taking action eary enough not looking out the window the 1st of March or St Oatrick's day and saying ''opps I am out of silage''

GrasstoMilk

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I would not be of that opinion of heifer rearing. First off when it started Teagasc was quoting figures of about 110-120c/day. Some Dory farmers were of the opinion it should be arounf or sub an euro a day. I costed it on this forum at 140-160c/day. At present is it around the 140c/day??. Even at that I would not heifer rear for a dairy farmer for much less than 2 euro/day.

The reason it will turn into a specialist business are first not every farmer will have the skill set to get the live weight gain to get heifers to where they can calf down at 22-24 months. Most dairy farmers want there stock to be the only stock on the farm so you need exact matches. You end up with a stocking autumn loaded system rather than a spring loaded system as in with beef at present. With dairy farmers facing there cows being given a higher nitrates weighting and derogation's limits being reduced 250 to 220kgs/HA this will increase demand. While lads might work for nothing for themselves they will not for dairy farmers. Leasing by dairy farmers will take land out of the system.

On the fodder crisis some people misunderstand the nature of it. First off it is a one in five or six year crisis. However some lads have a fodder crisis every year. They do not know how much silage and fodder they need or run out every spring. Dairy farmers over the last 4-5 years took out the extra capacity that was there. there a few issue being dependent on bought in silage. The quality is generally not as good as what you would make yourself. When you include transport ( now heading for 10/bale) buying in silage is uneconomic when a crisis happen's. There are other solutions but lads refuse to look at these solutions such as rations or straights, reducing stocking rates etc.

IF this had been a normal winter would we have survive yes we would it would have cost but we would have got through it. It all about taking action eary enough not looking out the window the 1st of March or St Oatrick's day and saying ''opps I am out of silage''

Heifer rearing price is dictated solely by what the farmer is providing and what the rearer is providing. For 2€ per day you would want to be picking up my heifer calves at 10 days old and dropping them back to me a month out from calving, your want to be supplying doses and vaccines and everything they need

Secondly lads refused to look at other solutions???
How do ye think lads managed to get through the winter with 50% of there required fodder?
Here we fed soya hulls and beet pulp aswell as silage and straw. Everyone I know was at something similar

Bass Reeves

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Heifer rearing price is dictated solely by what the farmer is providing and what the rearer is providing. For 2€ per day you would want to be picking up my heifer calves at 10 days old and dropping them back to me a month out from calving, your want to be supplying doses and vaccines and everything they need

Secondly lads refused to look at other solutions???
How do ye think lads managed to get through the winter with 50% of there required fodder?
Here we fed soya hulls and beet pulp aswell as silage and straw. Everyone I know was at something similar

First off WTF would I be bothered with calves 10 days when my present system is returning me a margin at what 2/day for heifers rearing would leave. A lot of dairy farmers think they are the only ones that can farm. Why would I rear heifers and have to stock at 80-90% of normal stocking rate when my present system is better than it. As I said as stocking rate pressure starts to become an issue the price of heifer rearing
will increase exponentially.

On the fodder crisis I was referring more to smaller midsized lads that do not look at other solutions. There are loads of lads that spend there time drawing silage when there are other options

jaymla627

Bass Reeves wrote: »

First off WTF would I be bothered with calves 10 days when my present system is returning me a margin at what 2/day for heifers rearing would leave. A lot of dairy farmers think they are the only ones that can farm. Why would I rear heifers and have to stock at 80-90% of normal stocking rate when my present system is better than it. As I said as stocking rate pressure starts to become an issue the price of heifer rearing
will increase exponentially.

On the fodder crisis I was referring more to smaller midsized lads that do not look at other solutions. There are loads of lads that spend there time drawing silage when there are other options

A lot of lads probably think you should be grateful you’ll get to keep your sfp and have some pocket money on top of it, the 50 a day Labour when multiply by 365 days really hammers home your point of needing 2 euro plus a day for contract rearing and the farmer supply the lions share of inputs to booth

alps

jaymla627 wrote: »

A lot of lads probably think you should be grateful you’ll get to keep your sfp and have some pocket money on top of it, the 50 a day Labour when multiply by 365 days really hammers home your point of needing 2 euro plus a day for contract rearing and the farmer supply the lions share of inputs to booth

Definitely, when you think of the hours put in minding 50 of them, and particularly when it's a 7 day week.

Sometimes I just can't understand how some guys can fit so much into the day..

Timmaay

The problem here is too many dairyfarmers are happy to "contract rear" afew extra heifers every Yr themselves and sell on for whatever market rate they are at, I could breed more replacements here and contract rear them, but why would I bother if I had to pay 2e+/day and provide all inputs etc, instead I can sell a beef calf at 10days old for let's call it 100 to 200e, take zero risk or financial losses until 20 to 24months later, and only then have to come up with the 1000 to 1500e for a heifer who is readily to calf down, fully vaccinated usually, and I get to pick and choose exactly what I want.

dar31

jaymla627 wrote: »

A lot of lads probably think you should be grateful you’ll get to keep your sfp and have some pocket money on top of it, the 50 a day Labour when multiply by 365 days really hammers home your point of needing 2 euro plus a day for contract rearing and the farmer supply the lions share of inputs to booth

So say a 50 ac farm, contract rearing stocked at 1lu/ac. Taking calves at 2wks old and returning end of nov pre calving.
50 0-1 @€;2 and 50 1-2@€2 =€200/day for 315 days is €63,000 for the year plus any Sfp

And the farmer supplies the lions share of the inputs as you say

If you take 50ac @ €200/ac is €10k leaving €53k plus sfp for your time and guaranteed payment monthly.

jaymla627

Timmaay wrote: »

The problem here is too many dairyfarmers are happy to "contract rear" afew extra heifers every Yr themselves and sell on for whatever market rate they are at, I could breed more replacements here and contract rear them, but why would I bother if I had to pay 2e+/day and provide all inputs etc, instead I can sell a beef calf at 10days old for let's call it 100 to 200e, take zero risk or financial losses until 20 to 24months later, and only then have to come up with the 1000 to 1500e for a heifer who is readily to calf down, fully vaccinated usually, and I get to pick and choose exactly what I want.

dar31 wrote: »

So say a 50 ac farm, contract rearing stocked at 1lu/ac. Taking calves at 2wks old and returning end of nov pre calving.
50 0-1 @€;2 and 50 1-2@€2 =€200/day for 315 days is €63,000 for the year plus any Sfp

And the farmer supplies the lions share of the inputs as you say

If you take 50ac @ €200/ac is €10k leaving €53k plus sfp for your time and guaranteed payment monthly.

But the farmer won’t supply any inputs at 2 a day, they will want a all inclusive deal, if you strip it back and say 50 euro a day for your Labour and 300 a acre as 200 a acre land rental is grossly under-valued if housing and slurry storage for a 100 head of cattle is included your already at €33,250, now if this amount was guaranteed payment with the dairy farmer then proving all other inputs needed including tractor for feeding out etc and full upkeep of farm with p and k/lime fencing and all other aspects of the farm maintained paid for youd have no bother getting lads to contract-rear at the above rate which is .90-95 cent a head a day....
But not to many dairy lads will be jumping at it when they have to stump up for all the inputs and maintain the host farm to a good level

blue5000

Mod note; I have pulled out a few posts from the fodder crisis thread to discuss contract rearing here.

blue5000

Bass Reeves

FarmerDougal

dar31 wrote: »

So say a 50 ac farm, contract rearing stocked at 1lu/ac. Taking calves at 2wks old and returning end of nov pre calving.
50 0-1 @€;2 and 50 1-2@€2 =€200/day for 315 days is €63,000 for the year plus any Sfp

And the farmer supplies the lions share of the inputs as you say

If you take 50ac @ €200/ac is €10k leaving €53k plus sfp for your time and guaranteed payment monthly.

What about all other variable and fixed costs associated with running 100 head per year?? And what’s the farmers own sfp got to do with the price the owner pays to get his calves reared!

memorystick

Brown Podzol wrote: »

Every extra acre I farm that doesn’t allow me to milk an extra cow is costing me money. I can get my heifers contract reared cheaper than I can rear them and I can buy silage cheaper than I can grow it myself.

Have you it priced to the last? I would never contract rear for a dairy farmer. The first thing they'd do is go to Teagasc and see how little they can get away with paying me. Secondly your tax will become an issue.

Mooooo

Generally if people contract rear two people come to an agreement about it. If you don't want to do it don't, if it suits and your happy do.
Personally I'd rent ground if it could be got nearby, if not then I would possibly look for a contract rearer. Depends on every ones own situation

GrasstoMilk

Mooooo wrote: »

Generally if people contract rear two people come to an agreement about it. If you don't want to do it don't, if it suits and your happy do.
Personally I'd rent ground if it could be got nearby, if not then I would possibly look for a contract rearer. Depends on every ones own situation

Our heifers left on Tuesday for the contract rearer. Our first time doing it. I love rearing the young stock but just cant get the land and the land around the parlour is capable of milking more cows so that's what were going doing.
Found a super guy who should do a brilliant job. We got a company in cork to work out the price and they're there in the background if we need any advice etc.

He has already weighed them and split out a few smaller ones, if they were with me that wouldn't have been done.
I know already its going to be a good move for us

Keep Sluicing

Mooooo wrote: »

Generally if people contract rear two people come to an agreement about it. If you don't want to do it don't, if it suits and your happy do.
Personally I'd rent ground if it could be got nearby, if not then I would possibly look for a contract rearer. Depends on every ones own situation

Your dead right I was pretty sure i was going to go contract rearing each of the last 2 years. Was talking to 3 different dairy men with numbers between 50 and 120, (i was too dear/they were to tight, take your pick) but both parties have to come to an agreement. If not, move on. Dont dwell on something thats not happening

Bass Reeves

Mooooo wrote: »

Generally if people contract rear two people come to an agreement about it. If you don't want to do it don't, if it suits and your happy do.
Personally I'd rent ground if it could be got nearby, if not then I would possibly look for a contract rearer. Depends on every ones own situation

In a way you are right but it is also a business. At present beef is in the doldrums. But it will not always be like that. It will recover again. In any business system you look at the cost add a margin (mine would be too high) and work from there. When the two individuals then sit down it depends if the dairy farmer is willing to pay that margin or if the rearer is willing to move off it.

In a way it is like getting your car services or getting any job done on it. You can do it yourself it is always the cheapest option. But you need the time and the equipment (in this case land and maybe housing). The next option is the lads who is doing it from his own back yard. Some will be very good , some will be middling. They may and may not have the full setup and want cash(in the rearing case there hand held) and may only be doing it in the evening's and Saturday's. The next option is small independent garage. Most of these lads will have all the gear but may struggle with faults on newer cars as either there diagnostic equipment may not be up with newer makes software. Finally you have the main dealers most because they are dealing with what they know are well able to complete any job on a car. But they charge for everything extra.

Recently I was getting a health check on a car I had just purchased privately. It had a year left on the warranty so to keep the car in warranty it needed for the dealer to check it once a year. For a few wippers, a service, two front droplinks and a full set of brake pads on a midsized Hyundai I overheard another car owner was being quoted 780 euro. Local lads and you supplying the parts would cost you 200-350 euro you buying the parts and maybe paying cash for labour. Independent garage 450-600 if you knew him well and were paying cash he might knock the vat off if you were a lads that did not need a receipt but then again he might not.

At present dairy farmers that are contract rearing have plenty of lads willing to take it on. But prices are creeping up and will continue to do so. Dairy farmers think that all lads will do anything for a cheque every month and not having to buy and sell stock. The other issue is some dairy farmers expect this service to come in at much the same cost as it presently costs them. At present they are able to keep costs at this level because there are loads of lads willing to take it up. But if demand continues to rise then so will the cost. But the biggest issue will be trying to match farm size to herd size if dairy farmers want only there stock on a farm

Water John

What a dairy farmer is taking on is essentially, extra land and part time labour but at a managerial level. That has a price and as long as the dairy farmer isn't demanding standards that he himself never achieved whilst not paying for the service it should work out well for both sides.

Gawddawggonnit

I contract rear for a Co. here and just finished putting a 5yr. contract together...

The farmer insists on no other animals are on farm so;
1. Land to be leased in full @ €450/ac.
2. Lime, p&k to be maintained at present indices.
3. All structural maintenance to be paid for by owner.
4. All farm insurance, water, electricity etc paid by farmer.
5. Fencing, hedgecutting, and farm upkeep paid by farmer.
6. Sheds rented in full on a square meter basis. Maintenance paid by owner.
7. Owner/labor paid @€;50/hr for work done. This is estimated on a yearly basis and is paid monthly.
8. Tractor work paid @ €150/hr, with a yearly estimate and paid monthly.
9. All feed, fert, vax, vets etc paid by farmer.
10. €50/ac to be paid by farmer if all work is to agreed standards. Paid once a year.
11. Payment monthly is by bank transfer and paid regardless of farm idle or stocked.
12. Contract can be annulled by 2yrs rent + labor + tractor + maintenance costs etc, paid upfront.

This is the general gist of the contract.

I wouldn’t leave Teagasc next or near the formulation of the contract!!

Bullocks

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I contract rear for a Co. here and just finished putting a 5yr. contract together...

The farmer insists on no other animals are on farm so;
1. Land to be leased in full @ €450/ac.
2. Lime, p&k to be maintained at present indices.
3. All structural maintenance to be paid for by owner.
4. All farm insurance, water, electricity etc paid by farmer.
5. Fencing, hedgecutting, and farm upkeep paid by farmer.
6. Sheds rented in full on a square meter basis. Maintenance paid by owner.
7. Owner/labor paid @€;50/hr for work done. This is estimated on a yearly basis and is paid monthly.
8. Tractor work paid @ €150/hr, with a yearly estimate and paid monthly.
9. All feed, fert, vax, vets etc paid by farmer.
10. €50/ac to be paid by farmer if all work is to agreed standards. Paid once a year.
11. Payment monthly is by bank transfer and paid regardless of farm idle or stocked.
12. Contract can be annulled by 2yrs rent + labor + tractor + maintenance costs etc, paid upfront.

This is the general gist of the contract.

I wouldn’t leave Teagasc next or near the formulation of the contract!!

Yer just taking the pi§§ now!!! We couldn't even dream of that type of work. Did you say you bought land for 2k an acre lately aswell?

alps

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I contract rear for a Co. here and just finished putting a 5yr. contract together...

The farmer insists on no other animals are on farm so;
1. Land to be leased in full @ €450/ac.
2. Lime, p&k to be maintained at present indices.
3. All structural maintenance to be paid for by owner.
4. All farm insurance, water, electricity etc paid by farmer.
5. Fencing, hedgecutting, and farm upkeep paid by farmer.
6. Sheds rented in full on a square meter basis. Maintenance paid by owner.
7. Owner/labor paid @€;50/hr for work done. This is estimated on a yearly basis and is paid monthly.
8. Tractor work paid @ €150/hr, with a yearly estimate and paid monthly.
9. All feed, fert, vax, vets etc paid by farmer.
10. €50/ac to be paid by farmer if all work is to agreed standards. Paid once a year.
11. Payment monthly is by bank transfer and paid regardless of farm idle or stocked.
12. Contract can be annulled by 2yrs rent + labor + tractor + maintenance costs etc, paid upfront.

This is the general gist of the contract.

I wouldn’t leave Teagasc next or near the formulation of the contract!!

By the time you've the tax and everything paid out if it, you'll be making fkuc all...

memorystick

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I contract rear for a Co. here and just finished putting a 5yr. contract together...

The farmer insists on no other animals are on farm so;
1. Land to be leased in full @ €450/ac.
2. Lime, p&k to be maintained at present indices.
3. All structural maintenance to be paid for by owner.
4. All farm insurance, water, electricity etc paid by farmer.
5. Fencing, hedgecutting, and farm upkeep paid by farmer.
6. Sheds rented in full on a square meter basis. Maintenance paid by owner.
7. Owner/labor paid @€;50/hr for work done. This is estimated on a yearly basis and is paid monthly.
8. Tractor work paid @ €150/hr, with a yearly estimate and paid monthly.
9. All feed, fert, vax, vets etc paid by farmer.
10. €50/ac to be paid by farmer if all work is to agreed standards. Paid once a year.
11. Payment monthly is by bank transfer and paid regardless of farm idle or stocked.
12. Contract can be annulled by 2yrs rent + labor + tractor + maintenance costs etc, paid upfront.

This is the general gist of the contract.

I wouldn’t leave Teagasc next or near the formulation of the contract!!

Can the chaps kick a ball in the field?

Did Teagasc draw this up? That’s worse than a ball and chain.