Events Centre

Getting back to the matter.

Its "funny" reading the first few pages of thread, and here we still are squabbling.

Tragic stuff.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

We could be watching munster play in Pairc ui Chaoimh next...

https://www.balls.ie/rugby/donal-lenihan-munster-rugby-pairc-ui-chaoimh-404922

Think that was discussed in the PUC thread. Extremely unlikely to happen. They can take it to the Avivia, a much better stadium, and fill it. Think Donal was being hopeful rather than any actual real planning involved, esp on a pitch that was cutting up badly not so long ago.

mire

snotboogie wrote: »

The current hold up is not over viability, it is the legality of extra govt funding to compensate for an inadequate design which led to a misleading tender. Everyone has their hands tied so as not to invalidate the tender process. Limerick Council could in theory go after completely different funding, such as with the EIB who they already have a relationship with, after learning from Corks mistakes. The M20 could increase viability in any future feasiblity study

I disagree. Events centres are notoriously difficult as commercial enterprises. The current hold up is in fact about viability-simply because the developer and operator are seeking additional funding from the public sector to make the numbers more palatable. So the current delay [which you have outlined as a tendering/legal process] relates to the viability issue in a very direct way. If this project was commercially viable with 20,000,000 of public funding it would have been finished by now. I am still at a loss as to why people are obsessed with Limerick when discussing this project.

mire wrote: »

I am still at a loss as to why people are obsessed with Limerick when discussing this project.

There's no obsession with Limerick, that's in your head. They's just a realization that Limerick could potentially get such a project completed if Cork fails. And there's no "fact" about the viability, the developer and operator are looking for even more public sector money so they don't have to find it themselves after failure in initial designs.

who_me

If the Event Centre isn’t viable with the current funding now, why was it viable at the time of the tender?

Either:
- BAM got their numbers wrong
- this is a bait n switch. Win the tender with a low-ball bid then raise the cat once the public authority is committed.
- BAM want (or always wanted) the other elements of the development, and the promise of the Event Centre got it through.

The viability of the project should never be a surprise at this stage of the process. If anything, the economy is healthier now and the potential market greater now than at tender time.

Tomtom364

who_me wrote: »

If the Event Centre isn’t viable with the current funding now, why was it viable at the time of the tender?

Either:
- BAM got their numbers wrong
- this is a bait n switch. Win the tender with a low-ball bid then raise the cat once the public authority is committed.
- BAM want (or always wanted) the other elements of the development, and the promise of the Event Centre got it through.

The viability of the project should never be a surprise at this stage of the process. If anything, the economy is healthier now and the potential market greater now than at tender time.

Not to say that BAM are innocent of anything, mistakes or trickery, but as this project has dragged on for so long construction costs have been climbing significantly. In part due to supply vs demand for skilled workers (of which there is a national shortage) and materials. Also, Legislation recommend in July 2017 came into effect in October 2017 that increased pay for construction workers which has had a massive impact on all projects that were priced pre July 2017.

https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/news-media/Workplace_Relations_Notices/Minister_Pat_Breen_signs_Order_to_increase_pay_for_workers_in_the_construction_sector.html

chalkitdown1

who_me wrote: »

- this is a bait n switch. Win the tender with a low-ball bid then raise the cat once the public authority is committed.

This is straight out of the BAM playbook. Same thing they pulled in Dublin with the hospital.

mire

munstermagic11 wrote: »

There's no obsession with Limerick, that's in your head. They's just a realization that Limerick could potentially get such a project completed if Cork fails. And there's no "fact" about the viability, the developer and operator are looking for even More public sector money so they don't have to find it themselves after failure in initial designs.

I just think that cork people need to relax a little about Limerick!. To me, it's irrelevant to this discussion. By the way, if they did manage to deliver up there, fair play to them, but they'll have to get live nation to sign on the dotted line regardless of capital investment. I would not lose any sleep over it but I suspect Cork won't take it so well!

Of course it's about viability. If it was commercially viable and profitable it would be built. The developer and operator are playing a game. Of course they are. They are behaving like any developer of such a project would - trying to extract as much public subsidy as possible for a project that would deliver substantial economic spinoff outside this site. I wouldn't be too worried or overly precious about the behavior of the developer/operator as many people are.

mire wrote: »

I disagree. Events centres are notoriously difficult as commercial enterprises. The current hold up is in fact about viability-simply because the developer and operator are seeking additional funding from the public sector to make the numbers more palatable. So the current delay [which you have outlined as a tendering/legal process] relates to the viability issue in a very direct way. If this project was commercially viable with 20,000,000 of public funding it would have been finished by now. I am still at a loss as to why people are obsessed with Limerick when discussing this project.

The hold up is because Live Nation did not accept BAM's original design, the one they used as a template for their tender. In order to keep Live Nation on board BAM needed to revise their design, which upped costs, which upped the money needed from Govt to fund the build.

mire wrote: »

Of course it's about viability. If it was commercially viable and profitable it would be built. The developer and operator are playing a game. Of course they are. They are behaving like any developer of such a project would - trying to extract as much public subsidy as possible for a project that would deliver substantial economic spinoff outside this site. I wouldn't be too worried or overly precious about the behavior of the developer/operator as many people are.

Its not "precious" to have an opinion on public -private expenditure. Maybe we're (as a nation) not "precious" enough with how we spend our money.

mire wrote: »

I just think that cork people need to relax a little about Limerick!

You're the one getting animated when Limerick is mentioned :pac:

mire wrote: »

I wouldn't be too worried or overly precious about the behavior of the developer/operator as many people are.

People are worried that the project has at best stalled and at worst looks dead in the water. This is after significant investment and spending of public money. This is a major opportunity for the city, for businesses and jobs; displaying some passion about the failures to date of politicians/City Hall/developers/operators is one of the means of trying to hold people to accountability.

Simon Coveney has announced another deadline.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/easter-target-for-cork-event-centre-funding-progress-916095.html

Nancy Unkempt Shop wrote: »

Simon Coveney has announced another deadline.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/easter-target-for-cork-event-centre-funding-progress-916095.html

If they could only get past the elections....

Markcheese

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

If they could only get past the elections....

Which ones?
There's always another election just round the corner, and this could well be a multi-election issue...

Markcheese wrote: »

Which ones?
There's always another election just round the corner, and this could well be a multi-election issue...

The ones actually scheduled!
(Local/European 24/05/19)

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

The ones actually scheduled!
(Local/European 24/05/19)

Who’s name is tied to this from the local or European elections? The only active politician who could feel the pain from this is Coveney, I mean Buttimer was in the sod turning picture and is now shouting from the sidelines... I still maintain that the worst thing that could be announced is one of BAM, Live Nation or the government pulling out. Second worst is nobody commenting. Any announcement of deadlines or commitments from those three is good news. No matter how sick of it we all are...

snotboogie wrote: »

Who’s name is tied to this from the local or European elections? The only active politician who could feel the pain from this is Coveney, I mean Buttimer was in the sod turning picture and is now shouting from the sidelines... I still maintain that the worst thing that could be announced is one of BAM, Live Nation or the government pulling out. Second worst is nobody commenting. Any announcement of deadlines or commitments from those three is good news. No matter how sick of it we all are...

Not one of them will want to be associated with it, it makes them look impotent, useless, unnecessary, and shifty.

Even though they're a minority parry, any FG canditate could find themselves guilty of association with Coveney. FF cant sling mud, they're in it with them.

We've had 4 years of announcements from the various players. Still no event centre. Worst thing that can happen is it isnt built. Least worst isnt much consolation.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Not one of them will want to be associated with it, it makes them look impotent, useless, unnecessary, and shifty.

Even though they're a minority parry, any FG canditate could find themselves guilty of association with Coveney. FF cant sling mud, they're in it with them.

We've had 4 years of announcements from the various players. Still no event centre. Worst thing that can happen is it isnt built. Least worst isnt much consolation.

If any one of the three pull the plug it won’t happen, as long as all three are publically commited it might happen.

MrDerp

Do people really believe it will affect Coveney that much.

I always here this about parties and politicians. They won’t be forgiven for X or Y. Is there any typical FG voter here that will change their vote over this fiasco?

None of my colleagues are talking about the events centre other than a passing interest. They all vote with their wallets

MrDerp wrote: »

Do people really believe it will affect Coveney that much.

I don't think it will have the effect that some people would like it to have. That being said, there is no doubt that the event centre issue has eroded some of the trust that floating voters would place in the likes of Coveney and local Fine Gael candidates. In a close race, you'd be surprised what a couple of hundred votes could do.

Expect a significant (if ultimately non-committal) announcement in the next ten days.

Looks like another deadline, set by Simon Coveney himself only 2 weeks ago is going to glide by without progress. No doubt we'll have the tanaiste out next week telling us how complicated it all is and how we all need to be patient.
3 f**king years (and more) of this.

Nancy Unkempt Shop wrote: »

Looks like another deadline, set by Simon Coveney himself only 2 weeks ago is going to glide by without progress. No doubt we'll have the tanaiste out next week telling us how complicated it all is and how we all need to be patient.
3 f**king years (and more) of this.

New opinion poll suggests Fianna Fáil is up four points to 29%, while Fine Gael drops three points to 28%.
Expect more lies from Simon in the days/weeks ahead.

dmn

Varadkar: Sod turning at stalled Cork event centre a mistake

:rolleyes:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/varadkar-event-centre-sod-turning-a-mistake-919408.html

P.lane78

Get Kylie booked in to open it and leo will find the money all right ....

"I met Minister Madigan about it recently and I think we can get it going again, but I absolutely understand people won’t believe that until they see it happening."

DAFUQ

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

"I met Minister Madigan about it recently and I think we can get it going again, but I absolutely understand people won’t believe that until they see it happening."

DAFUQ

Varadkar lets slip how dire the situation is. Anybody heard from BAM or Live Nation lately? There is a reason that you haven't. This is over but we won't be told until after the local and european elections.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

"I met Minister Madigan about it recently and I think we can get it going again, but I absolutely understand people won’t believe that until they see it happening."

DAFUQ

It’s stuck with the City Council right?

snotboogie wrote: »

It’s stuck with the City Council right?

I reckon its with BAM at the moment, whether they want to accept the loan, or pull out, and it has to be a loan or we're back to retender.

& AFAIK, they have yet to submit their response to the RFI , and have asked for more time.

& even if they decide to accept the "loan", is this not subject to further ratification by the Dept., and a new cost-benifet analysis required?

City Council are helpless at the moment, they've been completely outplayed by BAM. Only way out i reckon is if BAM stump up the extra 9m themselves.

9 fcuking million holding it up.
FFS

nlrkjos

Honestly...just drop the whole thing, it's become non-runner in peoples heads now...even 96 and red FM's have given up on it. Just let the city develop the way it's going and maybe some genius will see a way to do this without all the "politikking". Keep all forms of government local and national away until it's ready to go..........................